Wrestler Chris Benoit and family found dead in their home

[Kuya]

We don't know people that we don't know. Just because someone seems like a nice person, it does not mean that he or she is one.

That's a double-edged sword and the same can be said of the exact opposite. Just because someone commits a terrible act doesn't mean they're a terrible person. Everyone is flawed, everyone does "good" and "bad" things. You have, I have, he has and she has.

I didn't even know who this guy was until this story broke, but you have all these people saying shit like "oh he's terrible," "I hate him," "he deserves to be in hell," etc etc. I know it's human nature to run with sensation and emotion, but these armchair judgments of a persons character are just retarded.

Perhaps you're not getting it. Never in his life, other than being a good wrestler, did he do anything to upset what he just did to his family.

Being a good wreslter then killing your family totaly fucks up the scale now, it's not a double edged word, it's fucking one sided axe now. I will conceed that i personaly belive that people aren't bad, and are a product of their surroundings and blah blah blah mental state. But what he did is more than just a "mistake".

[wyrmtung]

Sidebar: The triple German suplex was the stupidest move in wrestling.

Carry on.

[Exoduso]

Sidebar: The triple German suplex was the stupidest move in wrestling.

Carry on.

THANK YOU!

[Tyche]

I hate hate hate to quote fucking South Park, but the point made is just.

Cartman joins NAMBLA episode, the end of the episode, Stan gave his little monologue at the end...and said "But you have sex with children...". Seriously, "But he killed his wife and kid...". I could care less if he churned butter for ethiopic children in his spare time. Of all the great you can do in this world, there is nothing, nothing that can put you in the "I am really a good person" category. People hit low points in their lives hard, and 99% of the population deal with it with some sort of professionalism and ethics. You kill your wife and kids, you are seriously messed up in the head and you aren't a good person. He has a history of terroristic threatening (legal term, not that he's a terrorist). There are thousands and thousands of people who hit low points in their lives and learn to cope. Thousands upon thousands of american athletes who suffer severe injuries, take steroids, and they are just fine. Where's the justification for the police officer who murdered his wife and unborn child in Ohio? He was a public servant who helped save lives everyday in his career. Is he still not one deranged, sick individual who deserves to burn in hell? Hell yes he is.

[MF Perm]

We don't know people that we don't know. Just because someone seems like a nice person, it does not mean that he or she is one.

That's a double-edged sword and the same can be said of the exact opposite. Just because someone commits a terrible act doesn't mean they're a terrible person. Everyone is flawed, everyone does "good" and "bad" things. You have, I have, he has and she has.

I didn't even know who this guy was until this story broke, but you have all these people saying shit like "oh he's terrible," "I hate him," "he deserves to be in hell," etc etc. I know it's human nature to run with sensation and emotion, but these armchair judgments of a persons character are just retarded.

Perhaps you're not getting it. Never in his life, other than being a good wrestler, did he do anything to upset what he just did to his family.

Being a good wreslter then killing your family totaly fucks up the scale now, it's not a double edged word, it's fucking one sided axe now. I will conceed that i personaly belive that people aren't bad, and are a product of their surroundings and blah blah blah mental state. But what he did is more than just a "mistake".

No I am getting it. I said earlier I'm not defending his actions, just the perception of his character based on this one thing.

It's not a one sided axe to say someone who does good things is incapable of doing something bad, and that someone who did one bad thing isn't painted entirely as bad. His character overall, or anyones for that matter, is more complex than one action. Maybe you're getting where I'm coming from.

Septimus basically summed it up perfectly:

My point is that his fans did not know his true character, and his co-workers may very well not have known either. We all have public lives that we share with others and private lives that we keep from our friends and families (with good reason, I really do not want to hear about the sex lives of my family members), we all have inner demons that we keep to ourselves. Maybe he had a mental break-down, maybe he had organic brain damage that caused this, maybe he had a long-term psychological illness that he hid from everybody, maybe it was steroid-induced rage, or maybe he was an abusive jerk who was escalating up to this- we may never know for sure.

I'm not coming on here saying he was this great guy and that's why we shouldn't judge him. I'm saying none of us know more than what the media tells us, and that it's arrogant and ignorant to try and paint a picture with a broken brush and two colors.

Fuck yes he did a terrible thing. But do you know why he did it? For me, personally, the idea of an "evil crime" in this manner is someone who commits these atrocities for their own personal benefit be it religious, for pleasure, for ideal, or for money. I don't see any benefit on his end, especially since he placed Bibles on their bodies he likely assumed he was going to hell for what he did. Since I think we can all agree that taking your wife and childs life and the committing suicide is not an everyday "sane" act, I feel justified saying that he was out of his gourd and not perpetrating an act of malice for pleasure or profit.

[Exoduso]

I doubt he did it for pleasure or hell, on his own volition even.

He probably OD'd on steroids and got insane... the text messages he kept sending about his physical address and where to find him/enter the house, then more repeated messages of his physical address point to that as well.

[MF Perm]

You kill your wife and kids, you are seriously messed up in the head and you aren't a good person.

This is the kind of mentality I'm talking about. If you're messed up in the head, you aren't a good person. It's this kind of ignorance that creates 99% of the problems we face in the world.

I'm not saying this is how you think, but it's the same line of reasoning that racists think "such and such race" is inferior, or that TG and homosexuals are deviants and have psychological issues.


Good is a subjective word. Sure it's your opinion, but it would present alot of force in the world if it were an educated one.

[LLK]

I don't think anyone is saying he is a "good person" at this point.

I think mainly the arguements are that:

1.) A person doesn't have to break down and get crazy and murder some people because of Steroids. So the whole STEROIDS DID IT nonsense the news is pushing down peoples throats is unjustified.

2.) Just because a person snaps and kills someone doesn't necessairly make them an evil person. Insane? Sure. Demented? Of course. But evil? Hitler was evil. Charles Manso is an evil guy. But they did more then just snap. The committed attrocities. Which while murder definately does fall into that category it's not the same as Genocide against an entire race/religon. Meh... good / evil is really just a matter of opinion anyways I guess.

Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding what the people are saying in here. I just don't think he was "evil"

[Kuya]

I hate seing the word evil and good being tossed around, makes me feel like i'm in grade school. But basicaly what i'm saying is, don't expect people to feel any sympathy for him. As i'm sure he doesn't expect to receive it.

[MF Perm]

I hate seing the word evil and good being tossed around, makes me feel like i'm in grade school. But basicaly what i'm saying is, don't expect people to feel any sympathy for him. As i'm sure he doesn't expect to receive it.

Roger that. I'm not that much of a bleeding heart to expect that lol

[Creeps]

I hate when people use the "(insert word) is subjective" argument. The fact is, today's American society has a standard for what's good and what's bad. Killing your wife and kid, then offing yourself is bad. Stop acting like it's not. Drug abuse, domestic violence and murder make you a bad person. This guy was a freak and the world is better off. I don't care what personal problems he's had. I know plenty of people that went through way worse shit than he did, and they didn't kill anyone as a result. They went to rehab or therapy, got divorces and dealt with it, instead of bitching out and committing a murder/suicide.

[Intense]

Fine! "Good is relative," hows that?

p.s. I agree with Creeps. Its weird calling you that.

[Bxbaby]

I hate when people use the "(insert word) is subjective" argument. The fact is, today's American society has a standard for what's good and what's bad. Killing your wife and kid, then offing yourself is bad. Stop acting like it's not. Drug abuse, domestic violence and murder make you a bad person. This guy was a freak and the world is better off. I don't care what personal problems he's had. I know plenty of people that went through way worse shit than he did, and they didn't kill anyone as a result. They went to rehab or therapy, got divorces and dealt with it, instead of bitching out and committing a murder/suicide.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you on one of your points. Drug abuse does not necessarily make you a bad person. Someone addicted to painkillers would be considered a drug abuser, but you cannot say that person is a bad person because of it. Many war veterans and ex-professional athletes have become addicted to painkillers because of what they have been through. I'm not saying its a great thing, but it certainly does not make them a bad person. Yes I know I'm just pointing out one instance, but to make a generalization of saying that being drug abuser makes you a bad person is just wrong.

[MF Perm]

I hate when people use the "(insert word) is subjective" argument. The fact is, today's American society has a standard for what's good and what's bad. Killing your wife and kid, then offing yourself is bad. Stop acting like it's not. Drug abuse, domestic violence and murder make you a bad person. This guy was a freak and the world is better off. I don't care what personal problems he's had. I know plenty of people that went through way worse shit than he did, and they didn't kill anyone as a result. They went to rehab or therapy, got divorces and dealt with it, instead of bitching out and committing a murder/suicide.

Yeah, I'm glad you've noticed American society is the flagship for what's good and bad. Apparently that entire conversation went right over your head. From your post I can tell you're just a cynic who sees the world in black and white. And of course assumes American society has a perfectly honed idea of what's "good and bad." Good luck in life, you'll need it.

[Nystul]

Steroids are a significant part of the story here and NOT just because of roid rage. Steroid use- even cyclic use which most abusers do these days- has been shown over and over again to cause significant mental problems. "Roid rage" is just one part of that- paranoia, depression, erratic behavior- all are caused by anabolic steroid use. Just because the crimes were separated out and perhaps not a single "rage" event doesn't mean that steroids couldn't have been involved in creating an unstable mental condition.

If I may step on the soap box for a sec, seriously- steroids are bad, mkay? Even with cyclic use, doses over a few days and then off for a while, it kills your heart, destroys neurological tissue etc. So many wrestlers have died from heart failure lately that was almost certainly traced back to the use of steroids. It's so stupid to do.

[Intense]

Knowing Creeps IRL, I can say that he does see things in Black and White. While I dont think he is very tactful, I think he is right.

I think that moral relativism is a huge slippery slope. It takes responsibility out of our hands and puts it on our surrounding circumstances. I think that this creates a society of bitches where nothing is our fault. We essentially dont have to own up to anything we do, which I dont agree with.

[Creeps]

I hate when people use the "(insert word) is subjective" argument. The fact is, today's American society has a standard for what's good and what's bad. Killing your wife and kid, then offing yourself is bad. Stop acting like it's not. Drug abuse, domestic violence and murder make you a bad person. This guy was a freak and the world is better off. I don't care what personal problems he's had. I know plenty of people that went through way worse shit than he did, and they didn't kill anyone as a result. They went to rehab or therapy, got divorces and dealt with it, instead of bitching out and committing a murder/suicide.

Yeah, I'm glad you've noticed American society is the flagship for what's good and bad. Apparently that entire conversation went right over your head. From your post I can tell you're just a cynic who sees the world in black and white. And of course assumes American society has a perfectly honed idea of what's "good and bad." Good luck in life, you'll need it.

Seeing as how this happened in America and we fucking live in America, my points are perfectly relevant. And drug abuse does not make you a bad person, but drug abuse on top of attempting to physically harm your family and then murdering them does.


Off-topic rant:
Perm, I don't agree with alot of the standards in American society, but I choose to live here, so I follow and accept them. If you don't agree with America's standards of what's right and wrong, then you're free to get the hell out at any time.

[Feielle]

We essentially dont have to own up to anything we do, which I dont agree with.

I agree with Creeps too.

The guy bound his wife's hands and feet, then strangled her to death. There is no "Grey Area" here. That is plain fucking wrong. Also, he's a coward for taking his own life afterwards, but I appreciate the fact that he didn't wait and take the case to court, since he'd be given the "celebrity treatment" and probably get off on an insanity plea.

[MF Perm]

Knowing Creeps IRL, I can say that he does see things in Black and White. While I dont think he is very tactful, I think he is right.

I think that moral relativism is a huge slippery slope. It takes responsibility out of our hands and puts it on our surrounding circumstances. I think that this creates a society of bitches where nothing is our fault. We essentially dont have to own up to anything we do, which I dont agree with.

The thing is, I never said he was dealing with this stressful trouble or whatever. Brain damage is real, and the results are unpredictable. This is something that is in our control in preventing, and it is something backed by science.

I agree 100% this is a slippery rope and I'm on the "losing" side of the argument because I have more to prove to fit my point. The guy did a fucked up thing, had a past of domestic disputes, and was an entertainer in a violent physical sport.


But there is a line where you can say, ok this guy said he was stressed at work and shot 37 people. What is his mindset that this is justified? The same goes for this guy - we don't know what the case was or whether he was making a sound decision.


In a cause and effect way, I can say yeah sure it's 100% his fault because he decided to wrestle and exposed himself to injury which may have eventually contributed to his mental state which led to this murder/ suicide. I'm not saying he isn't responsible, I'm just saying you can't judge his character from this act. Especially since by the suicide I would assume he was still either batshit insane or showed some form of remorse for what he did.

[MF Perm]

I hate when people use the "(insert word) is subjective" argument. The fact is, today's American society has a standard for what's good and what's bad. Killing your wife and kid, then offing yourself is bad. Stop acting like it's not. Drug abuse, domestic violence and murder make you a bad person. This guy was a freak and the world is better off. I don't care what personal problems he's had. I know plenty of people that went through way worse shit than he did, and they didn't kill anyone as a result. They went to rehab or therapy, got divorces and dealt with it, instead of bitching out and committing a murder/suicide.

Yeah, I'm glad you've noticed American society is the flagship for what's good and bad. Apparently that entire conversation went right over your head. From your post I can tell you're just a cynic who sees the world in black and white. And of course assumes American society has a perfectly honed idea of what's "good and bad." Good luck in life, you'll need it.

Seeing as how this happened in America and we fucking live in America, my points are perfectly relevant. And drug abuse does not make you a bad person, but drug abuse on top of attempting to physically harm your family and then murdering them does.


Off-topic rant:
Perm, I don't agree with alot of the standards in American society, but I choose to live here, so I follow and accept them. If you don't agree with America's standards of what's right and wrong, then you're free to get the hell out at any time.

No, I think thats the point of the society we live in. To debate and discuss what we find right and wrong with American society. American society once thought slavery and hanging and torturing witches was justified, was it ok back then because they lived in America? Was anyone against that not welcome here either?

Ok then, well done, you can take that ignorance to a book and educate yourself some.