Sicko

[MF Perm]

And what can we do about it? Absolutely nothing. I wouldn't doubt that it was common knowledge that out healthcare system is fucked up, but people realized that they have no choice. You can't do anything about it.

You can vote, for starters. If you're brave you can protest. Protest doesn't have to be violent or active. We as consumers and taxpayers hold more power through inaction than any government has in action.

[Devek]

Health care is just a symptom of a bigger problem IMHO.

Like many things it is just too expensive.

For Americans to be able to compete with people in other countries that are happy to live off $100/year we need to lower the cost of everything, including health care.

You really shouldn't need medical insurance unless shit just really hits the fan, I should be able to afford walking into a doctor's office and getting basic surgery done with cash in my pocket.

[Andarvi]

Health care is just a symptom of a bigger problem IMHO.

Like many things it is just too expensive.

For Americans to be able to compete with people in other countries that are happy to live off $100/year we need to lower the cost of everything, including health care.

You really shouldn't need medical insurance unless shit just really hits the fan, I should be able to afford walking into a doctor's office and getting basic surgery done with cash in my pocket.

There absolutely are peripheral problems that contribute to this issue. The "American" lifestyle doesnt exactly accomodate some of the financial adjustments that would need to change in order to make universal healthcare a possibility. The free-enterprise step on everyone else to get ahead mentality that dominates the businessworld is what governs this country. There is a lack of compassion for our fellow man that one of the Canadian men Moore interviewed touched upon. Its hard to change the attitudes of a country of people with their own problems to be more considerate to those they dont even know.

Then there is the fact that America is fucking obese, a fact that ironically moore did not touch upon in his movie. Make efforts to change this and people wont be as sick as they are, which equals less money being spent on healthcare.

And war isnt cheap. I always found it interesting because the governments new approach to the war isnt so much find osama (as it hasnt been for some time now) but to fight there so it doesnt happen on american soil. 911 was a tragedy of course, but thousands upon thousands of people die annually due to lack of medical care than died on 911 and have died in Iraq combined.

[XxSlusherxx]

I can't recall Devek ever saying anything I didn't agree with

[MF Perm]

Health care is just a symptom of a bigger problem IMHO.

Like many things it is just too expensive.

For Americans to be able to compete with people in other countries that are happy to live off $100/year we need to lower the cost of everything, including health care.

You really shouldn't need medical insurance unless shit just really hits the fan, I should be able to afford walking into a doctor's office and getting basic surgery done with cash in my pocket.

There absolutely are peripheral problems that contribute to this issue. The "American" lifestyle doesnt exactly accomodate some of the financial adjustments that would need to change in order to make universal healthcare a possibility. The free-enterprise step on everyone else to get ahead mentality that dominates the businessworld is what governs this country. There is a lack of compassion for our fellow man that one of the Canadian men Moore interviewed touched upon. Its hard to change the attitudes of a country of people with their own problems to be more considerate to those they dont even know.

Then there is the fact that America is fucking obese, a fact that ironically moore did not touch upon in his movie. Make efforts to change this and people wont be as sick as they are, which equals less money being spent on healthcare.

And war isnt cheap. I always found it interesting because the governments new approach to the war isnt so much find osama (as it hasnt been for some time now) but to fight there so it doesnt happen on american soil. 911 was a tragedy of course, but thousands upon thousands of people die annually due to lack of medical care than died on 911 and have died in Iraq combined.

You know this is an argument I never understand. There has even been media exposure to this but it's brought up every time like a valid counter-point; that American's lifestyle is a huge problem and obstacle to universal healthcare. Granted, this is a very complex issue and it is part of the problem but truthfully, the problem isn't that Americans have a voracious uncontrollable appetite, it's that the food processing companies put shit in our food and call it healthy.

Look at a box of Kellogg's cereal claiming to be have Essential Vitamins and Minerals! Then read the ingredients: processed flour, processed sugar, processed fat, processed trans-fat.

If industry was held accountable then we would be on the right track, but they are not. From fast food to packaged food America was poisoned and put on the track to bad health, diabetes, and obesity. The same way they did it with cigarettes, marketing saying Doctors say smokes are healthy and marketing to kids.

This is not conspiracy or anti-corporate talk here, this is FACT. There is a very serious problem with how things are allowed to be marketed in this country, and be mislabelled and misleading.

So America's major lifestyle problems are 50% irresponsible citizens and 50% irresponsible corporations. And as they say about violence goes the same for knowledge, if those with the power of media and corporation were responsible to their consumers, the consumers would be responsible to themselves.

[Andarvi]

Health care is just a symptom of a bigger problem IMHO.

Like many things it is just too expensive.

For Americans to be able to compete with people in other countries that are happy to live off $100/year we need to lower the cost of everything, including health care.

You really shouldn't need medical insurance unless shit just really hits the fan, I should be able to afford walking into a doctor's office and getting basic surgery done with cash in my pocket.

There absolutely are peripheral problems that contribute to this issue. The "American" lifestyle doesnt exactly accomodate some of the financial adjustments that would need to change in order to make universal healthcare a possibility. The free-enterprise step on everyone else to get ahead mentality that dominates the businessworld is what governs this country. There is a lack of compassion for our fellow man that one of the Canadian men Moore interviewed touched upon. Its hard to change the attitudes of a country of people with their own problems to be more considerate to those they dont even know.

Then there is the fact that America is fucking obese, a fact that ironically moore did not touch upon in his movie. Make efforts to change this and people wont be as sick as they are, which equals less money being spent on healthcare.

And war isnt cheap. I always found it interesting because the governments new approach to the war isnt so much find osama (as it hasnt been for some time now) but to fight there so it doesnt happen on american soil. 911 was a tragedy of course, but thousands upon thousands of people die annually due to lack of medical care than died on 911 and have died in Iraq combined.

You know this is an argument I never understand. There has even been media exposure to this but it's brought up every time like a valid counter-point; that American's lifestyle is a huge problem and obstacle to universal healthcare. Granted, this is a very complex issue and it is part of the problem but truthfully, the problem isn't that Americans have a voracious uncontrollable appetite, it's that the food processing companies put shit in our food and call it healthy.

Look at a box of Kellogg's cereal claiming to be have Essential Vitamins and Minerals! Then read the ingredients: processed flour, processed sugar, processed fat, processed trans-fat.

If industry was held accountable then we would be on the right track, but they are not. From fast food to packaged food America was poisoned and put on the track to bad health, diabetes, and obesity. The same way they did it with cigarettes, marketing saying Doctors say smokes are healthy and marketing to kids.

This is not conspiracy or anti-corporate talk here, this is FACT. There is a very serious problem with how things are allowed to be marketed in this country, and be mislabelled and misleading.

So America's major lifestyle problems are 50% irresponsible citizens and 50% irresponsible corporations. And as they say about violence goes the same for knowledge, if those with the power of media and corporation were responsible to their consumers, the consumers would be responsible to themselves.

Ill agree with that.

[Senoska]

That..... was a great movie...... Thank you for the link.

[MF Perm]

Then there is the fact that America is fucking obese, a fact that ironically moore did not touch upon in his movie.

I just wanted to touch on this real quick. When he was on Real Time with Bill Maher about a month or so ago talking about the movie he did mention that he didn't bring that up in the movie and he regretted it. He also did talk about focusing on his own health and eating better and exercising and such.

So he's definitely aware of that.

[Niiro]

Am I the only one that cracked up at the Star Wars crawl of uncovered medical conditions?

[Chips]

I liked the use of "The Nightmare Before Christmas" soundtrack >.>

[Ivve]

I liked the use of "The Nightmare Before Christmas" soundtrack >.>

I don't really remember that soundtrack all that well, but some of it sounded similar to some of the music that was used in Lemony Snicket's Series of Unfortunate Events. Regardless, I liked the use also. Overall, it was somewhat less inflammatory than what I was expecting. I heard rumors of a segment where Moore actually confronted a higher-up at some insurance company with the family of someone who had been denied coverage or a service under their coverage. I'm glad that it's either just a rumor, cut from the film, or something that I looked away for a moment and missed.

[Po]

Fucking great movie...

the whole 'There is nothing we can do about it' is the absolute worst attitude to possibly have. We is not just us here on the BG boards, it is the fucking government. I really I guess never actually realized how serious it was. If nothing changes as I grow older I definitely might be going to Europe. Holy shit @ all those laws in France.

[poland]

We is not us here on the BG boards, it is the fucking government.

we not be going to tolerate this no more, no more we say

[Po]

If that is a comment about my grammar, you are an idiot.

I worded it that way because in the line before I referred to "We" generally, then I went ahead and discussed what I meant by "We".

[Ivve]

If that is a comment about my grammar, you are an idiot.

I worded it that way because in the line before I referred to "We" generally, then I went ahead and discussed what I meant by "We".

I'm the quotation marks nazi, here to deliver your ration of quotation marks. Use them wisely; this is all you get until next week.

"""""""""""""""""

[Tricen]

Fucking great movie...

the whole 'There is nothing we can do about it' is the absolute worst attitude to possibly have. We is not just us here on the BG boards, it is the fucking government. I really I guess never actually realized how serious it was. If nothing changes as I grow older I definitely might be going to Europe. Holy shit @ all those laws in France.

Worst attitude or realistic?

[Po]

Worst attitude. Look at the movie.

Hilary was getting it done in the early 90s and everyone called Socialist Health Care a bad thing.

Then look at Canada/Europe.

It can be done. That is what the movie was trying to show. He took us through it step by step.

[Ivve]

Fucking great movie...

the whole 'There is nothing we can do about it' is the absolute worst attitude to possibly have. We is not just us here on the BG boards, it is the fucking government. I really I guess never actually realized how serious it was. If nothing changes as I grow older I definitely might be going to Europe. Holy shit @ all those laws in France.

Worst attitude or realistic?

I think it's a poor attitude to have, personally. Change can happen, but it will take years, possibly even decades, before we see changes on the scale that most people want to see. Unfortunately, we're not a society of the most patient people. We get irate if we're on hold for ten minutes with the cable company, let alone ten years with our healthcare providers. If you don't do anything, then it's certain nothing will be done.

How do you think that non-whites have made this much progress in gaining equal status to whites in this country? The same can be said for women working toward gaining equality with men. It certainly wasn't by throwing up their hands and calling it a lost cause.

[Devek]

lol

[Niiro]

I really don't see the government taking on a huge and expensive responsibility like national health care which would put an even larger strain on the national budget which we've gleefully frittered away in war while at the same time displacing a billion dollar industry that kicks back plenty of benefits to our legislators already.

Health care is a booming industry, throwing that away to help a bunch of poor people isn't happening, not in this country.