Sicko

[Jefe]

The movie was decent. Of course, almost anyone can spot Moore's appeals from a mile away. Anyways, regarding skid row and patient dumping. That happens on a regular basis. Hell, Los Angeles is notorious for dumping people. Another example is the Hollywood police dept. has dumped (no pun) mentally ill indigents in Los Angeles >_> About USC's county hospital. I went there a few times, usually to translate for neighbors ._.; Jesus christ, once we arrived around 6 pm and the person finally was attended around 4 in the morning <_< That is one horrible place, which it does 'help' poor folk to a certain degree. Besides, what's better to help out than a med student?? <_<;;

Woot, page claim! ?*´??*?

[archibaldcrane]

Having a child die because you can't settle funding and stuff is really freakin stupid, but they can't just operate without funding in place and stuff. That's just how it goes sadly.

This happens all the time - it's called "The Emergency Room". It is where all your uninsured people end up when the minor problems they have and can't afford to get treated go when those problems blow up to big ones. The E.R. docs do what it takes regardless of insurance, the hospital eats the loss, and in places where there's a particularly large influx of uninsured people using the E.R. as their sole place of health care (a particular problem in areas with large groups of illegal immigration especially), the hospitals go broke and close.

If the lady in this film had said "No, I don't have health insurance", sadly her baby would've been treated instead of their insistence that she travel across town to the "in-network" Kaiser hospital.

The biggest problem with the lack of health care for so many Americans (myself included at the moment) is the lack of preventative care. When you're looking at a private care plan with a $5000 deductible (like I am right now) you just can't use your health insurance for small things. It's worthless - just good for emergency-type care, to keep me from going bankrupt if something expensive happens.

An ounce of prevention is worth of pound of cure - but noone can afford the medical prevention. Eat right, keep your weight in check, don't abuse your body, and hope for the best. It's what I'm left with at the moment.

[archibaldcrane]

About USC's county hospital. I went there a few times, usually to translate for neighbors ._.; Jesus christ, once we arrived around 6 pm and the person finally was attended around 4 in the morning <_< That is one horrible place, which it does 'help' poor folk to a certain degree.

Lol, awesome. USC's medical center was the last place I went, over 2 years ago, to deal with that ear infection. I couldn't go to a regular doctor because I knew it would be all out of my pocket. I think my deductible on that old plan was $4000. So, I went to USC, hung out with a 100% spanish speaking crowd as the only white guy in the crowded urgent care ward, lied and said I didn't have insurance, got a prescription for ear drops, and paid $50.

The 7 hour wait sucked (I think I slept 2 hours that night before I had to get up for work again) but the $50 price tag made it worth it.

Ironic that the same ear infection is keeping me from getting a new plan now.

[Jefe]

Lol, awesome. USC's medical center was the last place I went, over 2 years ago, to deal with that ear infection. I couldn't go to a regular doctor because I knew it would be all out of my pocket. I think my deductible on that old plan was $4000. So, I went to USC, hung out with a 100% spanish speaking crowd as the only white guy in the crowded urgent care ward, lied and said I didn't have insurance, got a prescription for ear drops, and paid $50.

The 7 hour wait sucked (I think I slept 2 hours that night before I had to get up for work again) but the $50 price tag made it worth it.

Ironic that the same ear infection is keeping me from getting a new plan now.

I hear you, I also had an ear infection, and god damn it, that's the most excruciating pain I've felt (besides the 4 fractures I have lolfutbol). Damn, when the doctor cleaned my ear canal, it felt as if they were poking my brains >< That fking pain has caused me to shed a tear or two. It sucks when it wakes you up at night. Going to sleep, night!

[arlania]

This was a great video. I didnt care for some of Moores stuff but this kind of hit home for me. Ive had to listen to my deceased father talk about fucks blocking him from medicine he needed, ive found out they werent treating him from kidney problems which RESULTED in his death. Now ive got to have a lawyer draw me up papers just so I can view documents about my fathers autopsy. Im his only fucking son and im not allowed to know exactly how he died without a bunch of legal jumping around. I cant wait to finish my degree and move out of the US.

[MF Perm]

I will disagree that a good parent wouldn't panic like that though, a good, composed, parent might have found a way to get to that hospital who would operate sooner, instead of beating the dead horse telling them to operate and disobey the law.

That's not breaking the law, it's allow about profits. That hospital didn't want to lose money billing her. There is no law against going to a hospital where your insurance doesn't cover it.

[Andarvi]

[quote=Maguspk]

You're incredibly lucky.

I agree, with the current system I am exceptionally lucky.

But the people who are like, OMFG nobody should be turned away with out current system, everything should be paid for, really aren't being logical.

Of course with a nice tax we can make that a reality, but with out current system, it just won't happen. Our system favors profit making on both sides, people wanna spend less and get more medical attention. Medical companies want to spend less and spend less medical attention. It's just a bad setup :D

I don't think anyone's saying that nobody should be turned away with our current system. I think they're saying that our current system should change because people can be denied necessary medical attention under the current system. At least, that's how I feel and what I perceived to be the message of the movie.

I only saw people getting turned away because they couldn't afford it.

The scene with the guy who threatened to get Mr. Moore to put them in the movie, without any actual plans to do so made me sick though. They were going to cover a treatment for one ear but not both. Cry a river, that's great that they're doing one ear but to be like "ahhh! she needs both to learn how to hear" is just kinda dumb.

The scene with the mother crying from being at the wrong hospital or whatever was kinda sad, and her kid died which could have/should have been prevented, but hey technicalities happen all the time, it isn't like they wanted to just let the child die but she was sitting in their lobby freakin out, inhibiting the care of others.

People getting kicked out of hospitals because they have no coverage/funds to continue staying there, that's what happens in our system, it isn't the system being corrupt, it's the system being what it is...If you don't earn the money to pay for your surgery you get no surgery. Our government doesn't pay for it sadly that's how it goes, sometimes your insurance will cover it if it's reasonable for them to do so, that's what ya pay for...

The movie is made to make you think this system is like breaking all the rules, doing all the wrong things, but really it's doing what it was made to do, what Americans allowed to come into place, and what American's are allowing to stay in place. Maybe the movie will "enlighten" some American's, even though I'd consider any Michael Moore film a poor indicator of any sort of "reality" that might exist. Perhaps it will encourage change, I doubt it, but it could happen.

Any good parent would do exactly the same thing. Technicalities are one thing, that is far beyond one.

I agree it's 100% stupid, I am not trying to argue that, I am simply trying to point out the fact that the system isn't really "corrupt", it's doing what it was set up to do, we just need a better system.

Having a child die because you can't settle funding and stuff is really freakin stupid, but they can't just operate without funding in place and stuff. That's just how it goes sadly.

I will disagree that a good parent wouldn't panic like that though, a good, composed, parent might have found a way to get to that hospital who would operate sooner, instead of beating the dead horse telling them to operate and disobey the law.[/quote:5869a]

I dont find it hard to imagine it being difficult to keep composure when you are sitting in a place that can easilly and immediately make your sick daughter get better but instead they are telling you to leave and drive somewhere else because of financial reasons. The urgency of needing to save a child can take even the most calm and composed people and put them in a frenzy.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Welcome to America, where human decency costs thousands of dollars.

[Thoronas]

My girlfriend use to work for Apple computers and when she developed a repetitive stress injury her HMO and apple's medical claims department screwed her around for over 6 months. Her doctor kept saying she needed physiotherapy to help heal the nerve damage in her shoulder which was making it painful to work but the HMO kept offering nothing better than a couple of massages.

Also whats funny is that americans can't have socialized medicine but the military can have 2.3 trillion dollars in spending that they can't account for? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in325985.shtml Thats 8000 dollars for every man, woman and child in America.

[MF Perm]

My girlfriend use to work for Apple computers and when she developed a repetitive stress injury her HMO and apple's medical claims department screwed her around for over 6 months. Her doctor kept saying she needed physiotherapy to help heal the nerve damage in her shoulder which was making it painful to work but the HMO kept offering nothing better than a couple of massages.

Also whats funny is that americans can't have socialized medicine but the military can have 2.3 trillion dollars in spending that they can't account for? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in325985.shtml Thats 8000 dollars for every man, woman and child in America.

Yeah and the funny thing is you have dumbasses saying they don't want socialized healthcare because they don't want to pay more taxes. Apparently the common sense of accountability and money management don't factor in at all to some people. It's apparently easier to unreasonably fear something new than to take 5 seconds to think about something. Maybe we'll get some of those guys to pipe up in this thread with their innovative ideas.

It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.

[Beckwin]

An interesting point:

The military uses socialized healthcare. Every service member and their immediate family gets universal healthcare. They go to military hospitals for free. If you need to go to another hospital or place for whatever, the military will pay for it (generally, TriCare is limited to non dental/optical stuff).

So basically, you can ask a pro-privatized healthcare person: if socialized healthcare is good enough for the troops, why isn't it good enough for the rest of us? It's also worth noting that many lower-ranking enlisted men and women don't really make a whole lot of money and would likely have problems affording insurance from a private source, especially if their spouse or child has a chronic illness or some sort of medical history.

[Artful Dodger]

Setting up more taxes so that we can have national healthcare would be freakin awesome

no thx

[MF Perm]

Setting up more taxes so that we can have national healthcare would be freakin awesome

no thx

And that's about the extent of any argument against "raising taxes" from the opposition; short, abbreviated, and lacking any information, education, or insight.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Setting up more taxes so that we can have national healthcare would be freakin awesome

no thx

OH NO, TAXES!

FYI: for 95% of the american people, if we had a socialized healthcare system it, would save money. The 5% who would pay more overall are the 5% who aren't at any risk of being less than well off anyways...and if they do somehow become less than well off they'll be saving money at that point. When they need it.

[Maguspk]

I will disagree that a good parent wouldn't panic like that though, a good, composed, parent might have found a way to get to that hospital who would operate sooner, instead of beating the dead horse telling them to operate and disobey the law.

That's not breaking the law, it's allow about profits. That hospital didn't want to lose money billing her. There is no law against going to a hospital where your insurance doesn't cover it.

Yeh idk why I chose law there, but it definetely would be going against the rules they have in place or whatever. I'm no insurance expert but I know a doctor wouldn't just operate/do his thang without the right net setup.

Socialized healthcare ftw tho. I liked the part of Moore's video with the Library, Schools, etc.

[Gregorio]

It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.

I think it'd be more funny seeing you try to pull sources for things and link me to the YMCA or toysrus.com as proof for your claims. Or just claim that I'm lieing when you don't have a good response...that seemed to work well for you.

[MF Perm]

It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.

I think it'd be more funny seeing you try to pull sources for things and link me to the YMCA or toysrus.com as proof for your claims. Or just claim that I'm lieing when you don't have a good response...that seemed to work well for you.

Do you want to bicker here, or take this opportunity to do what you failed to do last time and make a concise point?

[Gregorio]

[quote=MF Perm][quote=Gregorio][quote="MF Perm":91557]It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.[/quote]

I think it'd be more funny seeing you try to pull sources for things and link me to the YMCA or toysrus.com as proof for your claims. Or just claim that I'm lieing when you don't have a good response...that seemed to work well for you.[/quote]


Do you want to bicker here, or take this opportunity to do what you failed to do last time and make a concise point?[/quote:91557]

I did make a point!! Here's my source:

[url="http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com"]http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com[/url]

[MF Perm]

[quote=Gregorio][quote=MF Perm][quote=Gregorio][quote="MF Perm":be9f1]It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.[/quote]

I think it'd be more funny seeing you try to pull sources for things and link me to the YMCA or toysrus.com as proof for your claims. Or just claim that I'm lieing when you don't have a good response...that seemed to work well for you.[/quote]


Do you want to bicker here, or take this opportunity to do what you failed to do last time and make a concise point?[/quote]

I did make a point!! Here's my source:

[url="http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com"]http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com[/url][/quote:be9f1]

Ok, you just want to cry. That went far.

[Gregorio]

[quote=MF Perm][quote=Gregorio][quote="MF Perm":63768][quote=Gregorio][quote="MF Perm":63768]It might be fun to see Gregario embarrass himself all over again in this thread.[/quote]

I think it'd be more funny seeing you try to pull sources for things and link me to the YMCA or toysrus.com as proof for your claims. Or just claim that I'm lieing when you don't have a good response...that seemed to work well for you.[/quote]


Do you want to bicker here, or take this opportunity to do what you failed to do last time and make a concise point?[/quote]

I did make a point!! Here's my source:

[url="http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com"]http://www.ld;askfja;lsdkg;lnrfgergjkhkejrhgv.com[/url][/quote:63768]

Ok, you just want to cry. That went far.[/quote:63768]

You brought up my name buddy. And you did it in your oh so eloquent style as well. Completely unbiased of any anger because of your previous retardation.