Sicko

[Kaylia]

I kinda thought ddz was being sarcastic.

Sorry if it was. By the time I read his post, I was already pissed off by previous post who seem to show little respect toward poor/sick people. Sarcasm got lost I guess

[Ryko]

Don't fuck your body up with alcohol, drugs, smoking, etc. and you can effectively plan for any developing diseases just by family history to avoid being a money-leeching vegetable.

There are more than a million ways for your body to basically give up on you and put you in the position of mild, moderate, or extensive costs and severe lifestyle changes that would require said money in the first place. You can, at best, hope that not doing any of that stuff will help prevent the obvious ramifications due to them but you are out of your mind if you think you can "effectively plan for any developing [terminal] diseases" just by that and doing a family tree. You can rule out the obvious but it doesn't take much to be captain health suddenly fucked with melanoma (arbitrary example).

[Deigo]

Interesting and thought provoking movie. I had always been a fan of Michael Moore, he is brilliant. Thats not saying his opinions are outright correct and impervious to any oposition, but rather that he is creating something for the public in order to stir things about. Movies like this tend to lead people to ponder about whats really goin on. Not that people do not discuss said matters, but after viewing this movie and others alike I'm pretty sure most people will explore and dig deeper into this for personal reasons or maybe pure curiosity about a country they thought they knew so well.

Every now and then I get into a conversation with my dad about the government, the war, health care and other things along these lines. And what usually happens is near the end of the convo he closes with, "Well, no matter how you cut it, America is the best country in the world to live in... don't complain." Now, you can dislike me for what I'm about to say but that kind of mentality that I believe most Americans have is just retarded. Though it may be true that America is the best place to live it does not mean thats the cut off for our standard. Why just settle for that, leaving no room for improvement. I think thats the point Moore is trying to make in this film. We are a great nation and have most aspects of life better off than many countries, but we also have numerous flaws that are ignored, or attended to in a manner that the public views it as ignored. We limit so many values of life based on the wealthy that for the commonwealth life is limited. Do I have a plan to fix all the problems, no but I do believe that things could be alot better if people in the right positions had a little more of a heart and a little less greed.

So, when my father makes the same quote every time, I reply "Proclaiming we are the best puts us into a state of competition with other countries. Why is there a need to compete to be the best country where in fact it's not the best we CAN be. Being satisfied with best just put a limit on yourself. If you can live with that choice, then no, America is fine as it is. Me? I have'nt set my limit yet. America has problems that can and should be fixed."

I apologise if this makes no sense. . . burnt the midnight oil and running strong into the morning on can after can of Full Throttle. But I was inclined to post on this since I reguard Moore as person that can instigate motivation to THINK. And for some people, thinking is a task that requires too much effort unless deemed necessary. Movies like this demand a thought or two in my opinion.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

[arlania]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

Why dont you just go join the terrorists then!!!!!!?? *Puts cowboy hat on*

Personally I wouldnt even trust the US government with healthcare fully right now without some major laws being put into place.

[Ivve]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

Why dont you just go join the terrorists then!!!!!!?? *Puts cowboy hat on*

Personally I wouldnt even trust the US government with healthcare fully right now without some major laws being put into place.

I don't know if there's anything the government can do at this point to restore my trust in the system. It seems even some of the laws that are made to "protect" us are designed to be circumnavigated by anyone who can put enough money in enough peoples' pockets and has the desire.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

Why dont you just go join the terrorists then!!!!!!?? *Puts cowboy hat on*

Personally I wouldnt even trust the US government with healthcare fully right now without some major laws being put into place.

And you'd rather trust an industry whose goal is to make money instead of make you healthy?

Fuck that, give me government health care.

[arlania]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

Why dont you just go join the terrorists then!!!!!!?? *Puts cowboy hat on*

Personally I wouldnt even trust the US government with healthcare fully right now without some major laws being put into place.

I don't know if there's anything the government can do at this point to restore my trust in the system. It seems even some of the laws that are made to "protect" us are designed to be circumnavigated by anyone who can put enough money in enough peoples' pockets and has the desire.

Exactly how I feel.


@Jooeetheplatypus

I would rather have a government I could actually trust not to fuck me over. I am all for government health care, but I dont trust the US to do it right. There is just too much money in the system right now for our government to EVER change. They dont give two fucks about us and they know we are too scared of them to do anything.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

@Jooeetheplatypus

I would rather have a government I could actually trust not to fuck me over. I am all for government health care, but I dont trust the US to do it right. There is just too much money in the system right now for our government to EVER change. They dont give two fucks about us and they know we are too scared of them to do anything.

I'm not afraid of them, its still a government of the people as long as we are willing to use it instead of cower in fear. That's why I'm saying this stuff. You can say we're all afraid of them but that's useless until you decide NOT to be afraid of them.

And in any case, they wouldn't be out to screw us over, with goals that run literally counter to what we need. They would want votes,. Instead we have health care companies who want money and the funny thing is, it is by keeping us sicker that they make the most money and it is their DUTY to make more money and therefore their DUTY is to keep us sick but paying.

Quit being so afraid of shit and realize that what we have is fucking awful. Our government in and of itself is fine, its just the crooks we elect (often out of fear) that are killing us. The ones who WANT unchecked power. The ones who WANT to waste trillions of dollars that could have been spent on helping the American people.

[arlania]

@Jooeetheplatypus

I would rather have a government I could actually trust not to fuck me over. I am all for government health care, but I dont trust the US to do it right. There is just too much money in the system right now for our government to EVER change. They dont give two fucks about us and they know we are too scared of them to do anything.

I'm not afraid of them, its still a government of the people as long as we are willing to use it instead of cower in fear. That's why I'm saying this stuff. You can say we're all afraid of them but that's useless until you decide NOT to be afraid of them.

And in any case, they wouldn't be out to screw us over, with goals that run literally counter to what we need. They would want votes,. Instead we have health care companies who want money and the funny thing is, it is by keeping us sicker that they make the most money and it is their DUTY to make more money and therefore their DUTY is to keep us sick but paying.

Quit being so afraid of shit and realize that what we have is fucking awful. Our government in and of itself is fine, its just the crooks we elect (often out of fear) that are killing us. The ones who WANT unchecked power. The ones who WANT to waste trillions of dollars that could have been spent on helping the American people.

Oh i'm not afraid at all. Some of my comments are sarcastic and not my viewpoints but it's kind of hard to tell. I'm not scared of the government but a majority of people are. I don't see the US getting health care for it's people anytime soon at all though and it's kind of saddening. The US is a good country, but it could be so much better without the horrible greed.

[MF Perm]

I just saw this movie and man I'm pissed.

All this bullshit that people spew about it impeding on our rights and shit, fuck that. ALL these other Western countries do it and they ALL have the freedoms we do. Not only that, but health should come before this other shit. It is a BASIC FUCKING FUNDAMENTAL NEED.

That's exactly how mad I was after I saw it. I was fuming. I had so many emotions going off inside of me I didn't know what to do.

After about 10 seconds of the movie ending me and my fiancee just looked at each other and said at once, "We're getting the fuck out of here."


If I had enough money to support fighting the system, I would do it. People are such sheep in this country to media, state, and religion that I don't think a people's revolution would ever go far.

And the funniest thing is all it would take to shut down the corporate world and government is to STOP GIVING THEM OUR TIME AND MONEY. The way our system is set up, all we need to do is stop working and stop buying and everything shuts down. Obviously looting will take place, but they can't send the military after us and force us to work and consume.

Even if it did come down to suffering and starving and not getting what we want, that sacrifice is important enough to bring about real change. Too bad it will never happen though. The only real revolution this country will see with either be a complete crash of the system due to government and corporate excess and abuse of power, or violent uprisings.

Such a shame that all that power that we have in logic is lost.




And @ the old folks discussion, there's one word: Preventative. Also, people are overprescribed drugs all the fucking time. Doctors make commission on prescription medicine, it's terrible. And natural and holistic medicine is forced illegal through policy lobbied by Big Pharma. Pretty soon taking a walk and exercising will be illegal, we can only take pills to be healthy. Fucking country.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Actually MF perm, you don't need money. What you need to is to get friends to agree to write your congresspeople and tell them 'I will not vote for any candidate that supports insurance companies over our health.' Also convince your friends to actually follow through with that and make them passionate enough to tell all their friends the same thing. Don't just say 'we want this' say, simply 'this one issue is so important it will make or break you with me'. Now obviously you still shouldn't vote for a complete douchebag that supports it but whatever. To fight this we need to get at the government and make them lose voters over this issue until they decide to support the people.

[Plow]

I got kinda bored and haven't finished it yet, haven't read most of the thread either.



I just wanted to say that Michael Moore will always be my hero for getting footage of himself asking congresspeople who voted for the war to sign up their children.

[MF Perm]

Actually MF perm, you don't need money. What you need to is to get friends to agree to write your congresspeople and tell them 'I will not vote for any candidate that supports insurance companies over our health.' Also convince your friends to actually follow through with that and make them passionate enough to tell all their friends the same thing. Don't just say 'we want this' say, simply 'this one issue is so important it will make or break you with me'. Now obviously you still shouldn't vote for a complete douchebag that supports it but whatever. To fight this we need to get at the government and make them lose voters over this issue until they decide to support the people.

But that's the problem, 90% of our representatives want to stay in office because of the perks them and their families receive for helping out corporate lobbyists. You saw how huge the medical lobby was. It's a Catch 22 for everyone involved.

But I do agree that we should amplify our voices and egg our friends and family to do the same, it will at least get something moving.

[Zigma]

Watched this movie enough to see how much our health system really sucks, my god... It really makes me want to get the fuck out. I read that Obama is going to try and form a universal health care system within his first term. Will it be remotely like the one in brit, france, canada etc?

[MF Perm]

Watched this movie enough to see how much our health system really sucks, my god... It really makes me want to get the fuck out. I read that Obama is going to try and form a universal health care system within his first term. Will it be remotely like the one in brit, france, canada etc?

I'd have to reread his plan but, the gist is "affordable healthcare" offered by the government. I believe copays and such would still be involved, and depending on who manages it is what the prices rely on. He wants to involve the private sector to help drive prices down and basically have "affordable government plans" compete.


I think Edwards plan is what leaned more towards social healthcare and making it illegal for children to be without care and binding employers and citizens to be covered under law. Which is a rational first step, but will be harder to achieve.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care/

[Zigma]

thanks. I think my vote for the next president is going to be heavily based upon who is more serious about the overhaul of the health care system in this country.

[sephir]

Saw the movie, I thought it was one of Moores better movies. Although as a Canadian I can say that what he saw saying abut the Canadian system was not 100% correct(in the dowtown areas you can wait 4+hours unlessits life/death situation where you get instant care in that case), alot of what he was saying was true. One thing I wish he did cover,or at least I dont remember, was that two-tier healthcare allows for prices of prescription drugs to rise significantly. There are a number of factors that cause this, but for the most part, if I were to buy drugs here it would be roughly 10%, or less compared to whats down there.


Edit: Also, I pay less for Healthcare in taxes(you pay about 4% more of your GDP on heathcre than us)

[Tristam]

I'm jumping in!!!

CNN posted a really good review of the movie that seems to straddle the fence of praising Sicko vs. bashing Moore for selective information presentation (which he does in abundance). it's at

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/si ... html?imw=Y

I hate to see a couple things in this thread, especially the prevailing notion that one should leave the US strictly due to health care concerns. We may not have an excellent system, but our country is pretty poor in making good health care decisions on an individual basis, which affects the "rankings" that people seem to base much of their opinion on. The systems Moore cites in other countries are not the idyllic state-run entities that he would have you believe, and cover the only the basics. Imagine the debate we would be having if congressmen and doctors put together a national health care plan? What treatments will be covered for obesity/dementia - which are hazy treatment areas as is? Certainly the middle ground on treatment for many conditions will be far from ideal, and people would no doubt complain just as vehemently as they are now for services not recieved that they consider "basic".

Also, this debate really is a bit spoiled. A hundered years ago many of the "basic" treatments we take for granted did not exist, and many of us would be dead or in constant pain/suffering. Your pacemaker, MRI, surgery, even antibiotics are NOT basic human rights. They came at the GREAT expense of taxpayers (some) and private companies/hospitals/universities (most) who MUST see a profit on a few drugs/procedures to encourage development of MANY more. American biotech and academic medical research institutions are the envy of the world. To be sure there are problems, the pharm industry has steadfastly aligned itself with the republican party via donations and continues to spend private dollars on lobbyists, all of which contribute to mismanagement of health care funds through middlemen. But the answer is definately not a complete overhaul, or even complete socialization of health care (see the CNN article, we're already 50% gov't health care anyway). I went without health care for a while while changing jobs, and I still pay out of pocket for dental (which sucks if you have my crappy teeth), and it was scary but I always considered health care a benefit to living in a western industrialized country rather than a fundamental human right.

In short, health care is too expensive to make everyone happy through a universal program, there will always be barriers based on income and there will always be an argument about what constitutes "basic" health care.

A quick rush to judgement on a Michael Moore film is a poor judgement, as he only uses his celebrity to point out problems and make people even more angry about an issue that people are already very angry about, not a difficult or admirable job. We know the problem exists, and making it better will most likely require legislation that regulates health care spending and support. It's a difficult road, and it will be slow, but we're doing better than this movie would have you believe.

[Yangsing]

Speaking of health insurance..

Is there any online sites that have reviews of health insurance companies by professionals and/or customers? I looked around in the past and I didn't find one.