Claymore

[aru]

spoilers:

The only true deviations now are Raki wasn't captured by slavers while looking for Clare and Helen, Deneve, Miria, Clare, and a few straggling survivors didn't just camp out in the mountains for 7 years to get stronger. They still plan on improving, and presumably confronting the Organization and the other Abyssal Ones, but we've essentially got some closure on a season instead of, "Oops, they all died. Game over."

well, not quite. the fact that raki is with priscilla for 7 years is a pretty big difference, imo. the time he spends with her would make the feelings that he has for her that much stronger and more believable. i thought it was pretty stupid that he stopped clare in the anime before she killed her, he could have just as easily done his 'hugs and everything's better now' bs after clare got her revenge, which really would have been closure for the series. they could have had priscilla beat clare to near death and have raki protect her and retain the same openness for a new season that this ending did. not only that, but it would make clare and the others get back on track with the manga by having them realize that theyll need to go train and maybe even have raki go away with priscilla in exchange for clare's well-being.

i also think that the women splitting up and doing their own thing is also a fairly signifigant change. it reduces their comradery that they had in the manga and hurts the impression of bond that they all share. i think that ditching maria's plan also hurt the story in that the direness of the situation that they were in wasnt fully conveyed.

but i think most importantly, it's revieled that clare is already capable of being more powerful than priscilla without 7 years of harsh training/development.

[arus2001]

Can't really say there would ultimately be any less kinship between them whether or not they stuck together or disbanded like the anime had them. They've essentially got enemies on all sides, be it the Organization, the Abyssal Ones, and your general Yoma. They're still going to need to lay low in order to not draw interest. Though, with Galatea essentially sewing the seeds of her dissent with the lie she told in the church there, the Organization is kind of short on effective trackers and will still be going through their rebuilding process. Sure, Rafaela can go all covert, but there's no point in sending her somewhere if you don't even know where to send her.

The fact Clare beat Priscilla doesn't mean Priscilla can't grow stronger over time, either. She's unstable mentally, which could've affected her physically. If she had all her wits about her? Who knows how the fight would've turned out. It could also serve as a catalyst for her to look to Isley for refining her own abilities. It's not like he'd be a bad sparring partner, after all. I still think he gave up too easily when fighting her. Aside from expanding territory, I really think there's something else about him we don't know, be it his abilities or master plan.

As for Raki, nothing says anything couldn't happen to him during the seven years with Clare. Sure, Clare's motivation will have shifted slightly, but she'll arguably be more human as a result. And I think that was kind of the point of the rewrite, to emphasize that despite the evils of the Yoma and the potential ferocity of a Claymore, they can still maintain their humanity and live on as such.

[Fryte]

In all honesty, no ending would have sufficed. The only ending I would've accepted was "SURPRISE! AN ENDLESS SUPPLY OF MORE EPISODES! STAY TUNED NEXT WEEK."

I guess now that the anime is over, I'll speed through the manga. What's the manga at anyways? 73?

[arus2001]

In all honesty, no ending would have sufficed. The only ending I would've accepted was "SURPRISE! AN ENDLESS SUPPLY OF MORE EPISODES! STAY TUNED NEXT WEEK."

I'd dig that ending, too. Anyone else find the whole rainbow-like spark shit during the fight pretty cool?

[Ishido]

In all honesty, no ending would have sufficed. The only ending I would've accepted was "SURPRISE! AN ENDLESS SUPPLY OF MORE EPISODES! STAY TUNED NEXT WEEK."

I guess now that the anime is over, I'll speed through the manga. What's the manga at anyways? 73?

Yes, 73. The current story is not being continued until November though, all chapters right now are background or side-stories to the manga until then.

[Scythiroth]

Lame ending. ;/ Starting the Manga next week since I won't have any Claymore to watch.

[Elcura]

spoilers:

The only true deviations now are Raki wasn't captured by slavers while looking for Clare and Helen, Deneve, Miria, Clare, and a few straggling survivors didn't just camp out in the mountains for 7 years to get stronger. They still plan on improving, and presumably confronting the Organization and the other Abyssal Ones, but we've essentially got some closure on a season instead of, "Oops, they all died. Game over."

well, not quite. the fact that raki is with priscilla for 7 years is a pretty big difference, imo. the time he spends with her would make the feelings that he has for her that much stronger and more believable. i thought it was pretty stupid that he stopped clare in the anime before she killed her, he could have just as easily done his 'hugs and everything's better now' bs after clare got her revenge, which really would have been closure for the series. they could have had priscilla beat clare to near death and have raki protect her and retain the same openness for a new season that this ending did. not only that, but it would make clare and the others get back on track with the manga by having them realize that theyll need to go train and maybe even have raki go away with priscilla in exchange for clare's well-being.

i also think that the women splitting up and doing their own thing is also a fairly signifigant change. it reduces their comradery that they had in the manga and hurts the impression of bond that they all share. i think that ditching maria's plan also hurt the story in that the direness of the situation that they were in wasnt fully conveyed.

but i think most importantly, it's revieled that clare is already capable of being more powerful than priscilla without 7 years of harsh training/development.

The true bullshit part of the last episode was that Claire beat Priscilla.

At least now, people will read the manga and see how it's supposed to be done. If I had charge of the anime I certainly wouldn't have ended it there, also it doesn't really leave a second season open for anything since it's such a huge change from the manga (and no second season is why they ended it like that anyway). If they wanted to do it right, they should have ended it at the end of Vol 11, after showing all the Claymore's getting owned and dying, Isley and Luciela's fight, with Raphaela showing up and Alicia and Beth's technique shown to Galatea. Vol 11 was the PERFECT place to end it, it can scarcely get any better really.

Can't really say there would ultimately be any less kinship between them whether or not they stuck together or disbanded like the anime had them. They've essentially got enemies on all sides, be it the Organization, the Abyssal Ones, and your general Yoma. They're still going to need to lay low in order to not draw interest. Though, with Galatea essentially sewing the seeds of her dissent with the lie she told in the church there, the Organization is kind of short on effective trackers and will still be going through their rebuilding process. Sure, Rafaela can go all covert, but there's no point in sending her somewhere if you don't even know where to send her.

The fact Clare beat Priscilla doesn't mean Priscilla can't grow stronger over time, either. She's unstable mentally, which could've affected her physically. If she had all her wits about her? Who knows how the fight would've turned out. It could also serve as a catalyst for her to look to Isley for refining her own abilities. It's not like he'd be a bad sparring partner, after all. I still think he gave up too easily when fighting her. Aside from expanding territory, I really think there's something else about him we don't know, be it his abilities or master plan.

As for Raki, nothing says anything couldn't happen to him during the seven years with Clare. Sure, Clare's motivation will have shifted slightly, but she'll arguably be more human as a result. And I think that was kind of the point of the rewrite, to emphasize that despite the evils of the Yoma and the potential ferocity of a Claymore, they can still maintain their humanity and live on as such.

The difference is, that there are 7 of them and that not splitting up means they have more people to train with. It also means that they are even closer together because of what they survived and how they survived it (which was a lot more dire in the manga). Them laying low is easy enough, since they train their ability to completely suppress their power while still using their techs and being able to read other enemies. Also means even the orgs greatest eye can't find them easily, and if it did they couldn't get close enough since their covert ops person isn't around after the 7 years. Galatea's actions are basically what she does in the manga, with a few exceptions and the end result is the same.

Claire beating Priscilla in the anime is irrelevant, since it wasn't canon anyway you shouldn't take things you got from the anime and apply them to the general story in anycase.

[Nuriko]

I'll small text for the hell of it...

But aren't one of the twins dead? (#1 should be, I thought they made it pretty clear that Raf killed her and I can understand that it's possible Raf is still alive since she can hide herself completely), without both twins they have no way at this point to defeat any of the Abyssal Ones... I still believe Priscilla is stronger than Isley so while I could see Isley betraying her, I don't see him defeating her by himself, maybe with the help of Riiful depending on where they go with the story...

Randomly, who knows about Galatia, I can't wait to see what she's like after 7 years D:

[SPOILERS]



He's referring to the identical twin sisters #1 and #2, Alicia (Dark Alicia, shown fully awakened) and Beth (the one who keeps Alicia under control).

Yeah I feel like an idiot, woke up this morning and realized what he was talking about. For whatever reason I had completely forgotten about the twins even though I sort of made reference to them a few posts earlier. The wonders of alcohol while posting...

Randomly, even when November comes, we still only get 1 chapter a month or so, right?

[Elcura]

I'll small text for the hell of it...

But aren't one of the twins dead? (#1 should be, I thought they made it pretty clear that Raf killed her and I can understand that it's possible Raf is still alive since she can hide herself completely), without both twins they have no way at this point to defeat any of the Abyssal Ones... I still believe Priscilla is stronger than Isley so while I could see Isley betraying her, I don't see him defeating her by himself, maybe with the help of Riiful depending on where they go with the story...

Randomly, who knows about Galatia, I can't wait to see what she's like after 7 years D:

[SPOILERS]



He's referring to the identical twin sisters #1 and #2, Alicia (Dark Alicia, shown fully awakened) and Beth (the one who keeps Alicia under control).

Yeah I feel like an idiot, woke up this morning and realized what he was talking about. For whatever reason I had completely forgotten about the twins even though I sort of made reference to them a few posts earlier. The wonders of alcohol while posting...

Randomly, even when November comes, we still only get 1 chapter a month or so, right?

Unless anything changes, yep.

[Rem]

The last 2 or 3 episodes were a let down, it had been so good up until then. I agree that they should of ended it the way volume 11 left off, it would have been so much better.

[arus2001]

I guess I should expect as much from a purist perspective. "The manga's better!" is all too common an argument, but I personally see it more as an adhering to what you've come to know first. I see it in the Bleach thread. I see it in the Naruto thread. Honestly, I wonder if some of you people watch only to find a reason to get angry at the animators and writers.

Everyone getting wiped out isn't an ending. At least, not a good one when we have no guarantee of a second season and such. Why should the last couple episodes have been devoted to Rafaela and stuff that went down with her sister when she's seen maybe twice, and only briefly during the rest of the series?

From what was presented in the manga, the excess Claymores that also survived are still pretty weak. When confronting Riful and the next generation Claymores, they were essentially left behind. Sure, they may have potential, but as of yet, they're just kind of there. There's simply no magic bullet path of training that would guarantee X strength in Y time in this universe. Honestly, I'd liken it more to pulling a rabbit out of your hat in times of need, which funnily enough was depicted in the final fight, too.

I don't really like them just hiding on a mountain and losing track of the rest of the world for seven years, either. Just seems really irresponsible given their motives, and if a chance Awakened Being hunt and saving those rookie Claymores is what brought them all out of hiding, I'm even more disappointed with their motives.

[Kaylia]

I see it in the Bleach thread. I see it in the Naruto thread

No. Bounto arc was just bad and retarded, and Naruto's anime is so fucking slow it's painful to watch. They never took another path, they are just filling it with filler and useless crap.
In claymore case, they are telling an "alternate" story. That itself can be fine depending how it's done, but altering the original story and going back at it usually end up creating plot hole, or break the continuity.

[Elcura]

I guess I should expect as much from a purist perspective. "The manga's better!" is all too common an argument, but I personally see it more as an adhering to what you've come to know first. I see it in the Bleach thread. I see it in the Naruto thread. Honestly, I wonder if some of you people watch only to find a reason to get angry at the animators and writers.

There's a reason people say it.

Because it's true. Hell, half the people who say what you said have never read a damn thing.

And unless you weren't paying attention, the anime was incredibly faithful to the manga for a long time, if that is the case what reason is there to get angry? I watched it because I wanted to see some good fights in colour and in motion (Teresa's fight, Claire vs Ophelia, Miria team vs Male Awakened etc) and not because I'm a "purist". I didn't mind the slight changes, I also wouldn't have minded if they split off the story and started the alternative one much earlier. What pisses me of is keeping to the manga so faithfully and doing a great job of it, then splitting off right when everything was getting incredibly good.

Everyone getting wiped out isn't an ending. At least, not a good one when we have no guarantee of a second season and such. Why should the last couple episodes have been devoted to Rafaela and stuff that went down with her sister when she's seen maybe twice, and only briefly during the rest of the series?

And you think that episode 26 counts as an ending? There are so many plot holes and wasted material that it makes me wonder how you can swallow it. Even if there is no guarantee of a second season, ending it at the end of volume 11 ties in with the overall theme and mood of Claymore. It isn't some happy show where everyone easily overcomes their struggles with love and can look up at the sky to see a new day. It's harsh, and it shows what the organisation really think about Claymore's and how the world really is. And Raphaela's story and conflict with her sister are in vol 12, I said end it at vol 11. So the last few episode's would not have been about that at all. Rearrange a few events and add in some new stuff and you've got a perfectly acceptable ending.

That way at least, people could see some good fights and interesting things before it ended. Hell, no matter what the ending people will look up the manga anyway, with this ending they are more inclined to.

From what was presented in the manga, the excess Claymores that also survived are still pretty weak. When confronting Riful and the next generation Claymores, they were essentially left behind. Sure, they may have potential, but as of yet, they're just kind of there. There's simply no magic bullet path of training that would guarantee X strength in Y time in this universe. Honestly, I'd liken it more to pulling a rabbit out of your hat in times of need, which funnily enough was depicted in the final fight, too.

How are they weak? After 7 years training fully suppressed training with some of the strongest they also got pretty strong, maybe not as strong as the main 4, but still strong. Also, the only person without a purpose or meaning is Yuma. Tabitha has shown to be their "eye", and a good one at that, Cynthia shown to be a medic. I fail to see how that's just kind of there, especially Tabitha, because an "eye" has shown to be one of the most useful things anyone could have in this world. Also, why bring 7 people to rescue 4 when all 7 are capable of doing it? What are they gonna do, share? I got the arms, you get the legs right? A distraction? All of them are capable of escaping easily, why do you need a distraction?

I don't really like them just hiding on a mountain and losing track of the rest of the world for seven years, either. Just seems really irresponsible given their motives, and if a chance Awakened Being hunt and saving those rookie Claymores is what brought them all out of hiding, I'm even more disappointed with their motives.

After what they've gone through and what they're about to go through how does that seem irresponsible? You think after just surviving a mission where everyone else died charging into the organisation headquarters just to die is responsible? They weren't losing track of the world, they were training. The result is as it is now, they can begin their revenge. Only now they might get somewhere because they won't be killed within 10 seconds.

Also, what the hell, did you actually READ it? Them saving Clarice's team and leaving afterwards was pure coincidence. Claire was leaving anyway, not because of the team but to avenge her friends and find Raki (and some other things that aren't so obvious), Miria was leaving to begin as well. Everyone else went with them. It had absolutely nothing to do with that team that went up north. Their motives are fine, and understandable considering everything.

[aru]

There's a reason people say it.

Because it's true.

ending it at the end of volume 11 ties in with the overall theme and mood of Claymore. It isn't some happy show where everyone easily overcomes their struggles with love and can look up at the sky to see a new day. It's harsh, and it shows what the organisation really think about Claymore's and how the world really is.

What pisses me of is keeping to the manga so faithfully and doing a great job of it, then splitting off right when everything was getting incredibly good.

you've really summed up my feelings on this elcura. i'm really suprised that they went from pretty much going frame by frame accurate to what was told in the manga only to botch it up with the ending that they presented us with.

[arus2001]

I didn't see a flowers and butterflies happy ending with this (No Dragonballs were used to bring back Jeane, Undine, etc.). I can see why it'd be argued, but all the evils still exist and the four have yet to be removed from the conflict. I can also understand wanting to see it follow the manga to the letter. Remember, though, that television is a different beast. We see it done to comic adaptations here stateside. I don't really see why it'd be any different in Japan. Things are tweaked for both the sake of time allotment, continuity, and satisfying your average viewer (who probably hasn't read nor cares about the manga).

Otherwise, paper format being superior to animation is a debate neither side can really win since it's opinion. Sometimes I just stare at fights in some manga and go, "what the hell just happened?" Either the frames are too small to portray what needs to be displayed, or sometimes the author just doesn't do it right. Both mediums have their perks, nonetheless.

[Weltall]

Claymore anime turned into the biggest letdown from manga>anime in the history of anime for me.

Again, this is the ONLY* time I've enjoyed a manga 100x more than the anime.

[cubone]

"Thank You! Shinji"

"Way A Go!" Shinji!"

"Congratulations! Shinji!"

[Isiolia]

While I'm also kinda let down that they stuck so close to the manga for nearly the entire series only to change things up in the 20's...I can sorta see why too.

The ending of that chapter of the manga would have made for far too anticlimactic of an ending for the series. I think they could easily take the manga + side stories out now and make another 12-13 episodes...but then what?

In the end, things are -different- but -similar- in terms of where the anime and manga leave off. So if they do come back for another 26 episodes or something, they can likely pick things back up in a similar fashion.

Frankly I don't know if they will though. If the series pans out to be as long running in manga form as say, Berserk, then any additional anime based on it would wind up in the same predicament of making an "ending" out of a transition.

[Elcura]

I didn't see a flowers and butterflies happy ending with this (No Dragonballs were used to bring back Jeane, Undine, etc.). I can see why it'd be argued, but all the evils still exist and the four have yet to be removed from the conflict. I can also understand wanting to see it follow the manga to the letter. Remember, though, that television is a different beast. We see it done to comic adaptations here stateside. I don't really see why it'd be any different in Japan. Things are tweaked for both the sake of time allotment, continuity, and satisfying your average viewer (who probably hasn't read nor cares about the manga).

Otherwise, paper format being superior to animation is a debate neither side can really win since it's opinion. Sometimes I just stare at fights in some manga and go, "what the hell just happened?" Either the frames are too small to portray what needs to be displayed, or sometimes the author just doesn't do it right. Both mediums have their perks, nonetheless.

Compared to how the manga left things off it might as well have been. I dunno about most people, but when I was reading the manga there was a long gap before vol 12 was released (in raw even, 10sigh hadn't even begin translation yet) and I felt that the way things ended was great. I know what you mean about some fights in manga being confusing (Tri-Gun is a prime example of that) but I honestly had little problem following the fight in the manga. It only get's confusing with bad panels, and Claymore doesn't really have that.

While I'm also kinda let down that they stuck so close to the manga for nearly the entire series only to change things up in the 20's...I can sorta see why too.

The ending of that chapter of the manga would have made for far too anticlimactic of an ending for the series. I think they could easily take the manga + side stories out now and make another 12-13 episodes...but then what?

In the end, things are -different- but -similar- in terms of where the anime and manga leave off. So if they do come back for another 26 episodes or something, they can likely pick things back up in a similar fashion.

Frankly I don't know if they will though. If the series pans out to be as long running in manga form as say, Berserk, then any additional anime based on it would wind up in the same predicament of making an "ending" out of a transition.

You don't have to have the events in volume 12 exactly panel for panel. For the last few episodes I would've rearranged how things happened. Basically a bit of time warping. After Claire kills Rigardo, do the events up to where miria says something about a showdown, final fight etc with priscilla saying stuff about lights disappearing, basically isley could say that it's time to go south. cut to galatea at the org, and the demonstration with alicia and beth vs various awakened beings. moving onto isley vs luciela (maybe including the riful+duph part) fight, leaving out raphaela showing up, cut to galatea wondering what happened to the people up north (or just claire/jeane) and the final scene would be everyone fighting and eventually "dying". That way you have all the events of volume 11 set up for a good ending, keeping specifically to the manga would only work properly if they planned to continue it in this case. these kind of changes I can handle (and it's these kind of changes I liked in the anime). no material got cut, just rearranged with a few new scenes to tie things in together (that aren't long winded and drawn out, either)

I guess things are similar, in the way that claire's gang is presumed dead and have gone rogue, but that would be the only similarity I can think off. people who are eventually set to become key characters aren't shown at all, raki ended up with claire and none of them are together training either.

basically, no studio has enough material to make another anime for another 7 or so years, if it does indeed go on that long. that's not to say another studio couldn't pick it up later on and do it, but who knows. each chapter of an ES would barely only work out 1 episode...

[Elcura]

read the raw last night, was pretty good. at last the ES have finished, and next month the real story continues.