Prudence Torque / Combat Skill

[Max™]

6.3 Acc, 7 Att

0.9 x 7 =/= 7 >.<

I always viewed it like a Royal Guards Collar+2.

After seeing Naga's tests, only reason I can see is not having a PCC, or being one of the jobs that can break 300 Weapon skill with a Torque, though 299 is cool too.

[Amele]

While were on the topic...
I <3 my scythe so ive been passing this up for a while.

As far as tp gain and WS. What do you guys prefer between Torque vs Chiv vs Gorget. I dont have a PCC
So as it stands right now I tp gain in chiv chain, and use soil gorget for spiral hell, if its guillotine I keep the chiv chain on till I get my snow gorget. Most likely after I get my torque I will tp gain in that for sure, but for WS what is better Torque or Gorget?

*edit i had the post up for a while, seems as though my question was answered

well. I'll answer as a sam, (dark 1! )
TP: torque > chiv > merman's gorget > sea gorget EXCEPT! when you need one more store tp to save a swing (dunno if this ever comes up for dark knight).
1 or 2 hit WS: sea gorget > torque > chiv
3+ hit WS: torque > sea gorget > chiv

and Justice torque has 5str >.>; so it's even more obvious than prudence torque for multihit ws.

[Max™]

<.<

PCC?

It's only 2.5 Mil now.

As for Store TP, I can't imagine it would be hard for a Drk/Sam to do a 6 Hit Build, Rajas, Brutal would put them at least at 99% after 6, if the added TP from 518-528 for Scythes doesn't give another fraction or two.

[Amele]

6.3 Acc, 7 Att

0.9 x 7 =/= 7 >.<

I always viewed it like a Royal Guards Collar+2.

After seeing Naga's tests, only reason I can see is not having a PCC, or being one of the jobs that can break 300 Weapon skill with a Torque, though 299 is cool too.

6.3 presumes alot of other stuff, and ignores flooring behavior. - using fractions for dex -> accuracy or str -> attack conversion makes sense because the stats are relatively plentiful, but for 90% of situations the torque is the only gear with +skill you'll be wearing, so you should apply the floor behavior properly.

for instance:

201 = 200. in the range from 202-210, adding 1 skill adds 1 accuracy
210 = 209. and 1 attack.
211 = 209. in the range from 210 to 211, adding 1 skill adds 0 accuracy.
220 = 218.

we'll extend it to 269, 276, 285, 292, since these are the most common skill caps for A- and A+ merited and unmerited.

269 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
276 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
285 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
292 + 7 will -not- go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain a full 7 accuracy.

so for scythe, fully merited, with a torque (base + an abyssal, with a torque) you gain the full 7 accuracy from adding a torque.

with a greatsword, you would only gain 6 from the respective torque.

the tradeoff versus a PCC for A- skill (and unmerited A+ skill) is 4 accuracy for 7 attack, which may or may not be worth it depending on other gear/food choice.

for merited A+ skill it's 3 accuracy for 7 attack which is probably not worth it, considering how high your base accuracy is already and that there are better slots with better trade ratios if you really want more accuracy.

I'd probably use a PCA over A- skill torque if I had one; I'd use it over PCC if it meant I could sell the PCC (depends on other jobs) - for A+ skill, torque everytime for me.

especially since the Justice Torque (the one in question for dark A+ skill) is really 9.5 attack (well, 9 or 10 attack)

[Therin]

I really, really hate BLMs with Prudence Torques. >(

And yeah, building a 6-hit build for DRK/SAM is very easy, especially if you eat Carbonara (it's probably the best food for a fully merited DRK in EXP, seeing as how it gives you attack, HP for Souleater, and can also very feasibly drop you into the 6-hit build range if you're using Rajas Ring with an Algol or Scythe since the delays are high enough - use a Subduer and you'll obviously TP slower in the long run).

As for the Torque itself, Peacock Charm is better for TPing but if you're fully merited you won't have accuracy issues hitting pretty much any EXP mob or even HNM in the game (unless you insist on eating meat for Fafnir, but fuck that, consistency > e-peen damage). I'd take the Torque for the +7 attack skill. To top that off, INT is a 30% (same as STR) secondary modifier for Spinning Slash and coupled with the +7 attack from the skill it makes this the strongest WS neck piece for DRK/THF, bar none. Although I'm not really sure how many DRKs use /THF these days, arguably a Gorget would be better for /SAM if you're using meat since the accuracy bonus from it is stronger, but I'd still go Torque over Gorget if I were eating sushi (like for Fafnir) or fighting mobs that aren't ridiculous in terms of evasion (read: THF and NIN Mamool, fuck those things).

Prudence Torque is great for DRKs, fuck you dirty BLMs rly. >(

[yrpaine]

we give to whm for club skill for ballista!

[Bagel]

It's the best full-time damage neck piece for BLM, but in the same way that sash is the best TP-gain waist item for SAMl

off topic but what sash are you referring to? been a while since i played and don't recall any decent sashes

[darkhero168]

It's the best full-time damage neck piece for BLM, but in the same way that sash is the best TP-gain waist item for SAMl

off topic but what sash are you referring to? been a while since i played and don't recall any decent sashes

a straight answer would be nice. as mentioned before someone had said ninurta's sash, but last i heard AV doesn't pump that shit out all that often. I've seen lots of those immitation pictures that mention 'sam and it's sash' and was just wondering what all the talk was about.

[Kaylia]

I'm not sure why people are trying to figure which job should get the belt, when it's obvious there is almost no advantage to it for both blm and drk.

2 int VS 7atk/6.4acc on weapon drk never uses.


If you are BLM, you know "2 int" will never change anything on most monsters (at the cost of 7ele). It's 8-9dmg on half of your nuke, but it's also a painful macro piece since you need to rewrite everything for normal mobs, and harder mobs. With ugalepih pendant that has to be manually macroed under 50%, you will probably end up screwing up with the swap more often than not. Assuming 7 elemental (more like 4.5 if you consider the m.acc bonus from int) prevent one half resist every 100 nukes on pudding, you will end up with same dmg. It's probably less in reality, but the bonus is still insignificant in the end.

Drk don't uses club or g.sword in party, and they are better with p.charm when they uses krakken or g.sword on HNM. Sea gorget or 5str is probably probably better for WS with g.sword.


Quite franckly, I'm tempted to say WHM for the few times they solo or have fun melee'ing.

269 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
276 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
285 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
292 + 7 will -not- go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain a full 7 accuracy.

Pretty number, but they mean nothing

Would be valid if dexterity wasn't giving out "0.5acc" already. Is the number floor'd before or after the addition, it's hard to tell.

[Amele]

I'm not sure why people are trying to figure which job should get the belt, when it's obvious there is almost no advantage to it for both blm and drk.

2 int VS 7atk/6.4acc on weapon drk never uses.


If you are BLM, you know "2 int" will never change anything on most monsters (at the cost of 7ele). It's 8-9dmg on half of your nuke, but it's also a painful macro piece since you need to rewrite everything for normal mobs, and harder mobs. With ugalepih pendant that has to be manually macroed under 50%, you will probably end up screwing up with the swap more often than not. Assuming 7 elemental (more like 4.5 if you consider the m.acc bonus from int) prevent one half resist every 100 nukes on pudding, you will end up with same dmg. It's probably less in reality, but the bonus is still insignificant in the end.

Drk don't uses club or g.sword in party, and they are better with p.charm when they uses krakken or g.sword on HNM. Sea gorget or 5str is probably probably better for WS with g.sword.


Quite franckly, I'm tempted to say WHM for the few times they solo or have fun melee'ing.

269 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
276 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
285 + 7 will go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain only 6 accuracy.
292 + 7 will -not- go over a 0,1; gap. so you will gain a full 7 accuracy.

Pretty number, but they mean nothing

Would be valid if dexterity wasn't giving out "0.5acc" already. Is the number floor'd before or after the addition, it's hard to tell.

I'm not sure why you think dexterity would have any bearing on the flooring effect of +skill items and the skill-to-accuracy calculation. but believe what you want. to answer the implied question: skill accuracy is calculated in a different step than dexterity accuracy, since skill accuracy has it's own internal formula. there's no reason to expect that SE doesn't floor both terms individually, since that's the way that most serial math calculations are handled in this game. (it's likely that every operation is being carried out in integer math so the flooring happens as soon as the fraction 'would' exist.) like this: ((int)((Skill - 200) * 0.9) + 200 ) + ((int)(Dex/2))

As has been said other places (if not by me personally perhaps) "0.5acc" is just a good way to think about it, half the time (approximately) you'll get +1 accuracy, and half the time you'll get +0 accuracy from that last point of dex - since it's so hard to give a reliable 'target' on dex (being that there's so many different things that can adjust it, as opposed to skill which is generally 0-2 items and merits at most) you can't reliably state whether you'll get the 'full point'. In the case of skill this is the opposite, it's easy to determine if you can get that last point since it's easy to tell what skill you are - even across many different job sets.

also: there *is* an advantage to the torque, whether that advantage is sufficient to be worth anything to the job in question versus other jobs that can equip it is a valid discussion (see: lolsash) but if your premise is that it's junk for all the jobs that can use it, the skill modification for a job that melees with the weapon in question outside of solo situations is the largest jump in stats for that particular slot - which is why I would give it to darks over blackmages over whitemages if there was a situation where job priority came up. If whitemages melee'd in any serious capacity, I'd put them on equal priority with the dark.

[Byrd]

a straight answer would be nice. as mentioned before someone had said ninurta's sash, but last i heard AV doesn't pump that shit out all that often. I've seen lots of those immitation pictures that mention 'sam and it's sash' and was just wondering what all the talk was about.

He is talking about Ninurta's Sash. The first person to get a Ninurta's Sash led the LS and so took it for himself -- he was a SAM. Thus followed a long debate on this forum flaming him for taking it for his SAM rather than giving it to someone else, followed by people calling him a greedy bastard, followed by him trying to defend the Sash as being as good for a SAM as it is for a NIN, followed by everyone else calling him a greedy lying bastard, followed by him flaming everyone and telling them to GTFO.

In short, a SAM wearing a Ninurta's Sash has become a joke around here from a long dead thread. Do a forum search for "Map," "Absolute Virtue" and "lolsash," you'll probably find the thread(s). The drama thread might have links for it as well.

I believe Suiram's point was that although it might be good for BLM, it's a far, far better piece of gear for a Dark Knight. Similar to the Sash being good for SAM, but a far, far better piece for NIN (and possibly other jobs). (Of course, I could be wrong, I've been known to interpret internet sarcasm wrong before).

[Amele]

I believe Suiram's point was that although it might be good for BLM, it's a far, far better piece of gear for a Dark Knight. Similar to the Sash being good for SAM, but a far, far better piece for NIN (and possibly other jobs). (Of course, I could be wrong, I've been known to interpret internet sarcasm wrong before).

not being suiram I can't say with complete veracity, but basically that's what I got out of it too; it represents a small improvement for one job and a larger improvement for another job (blm:drk, sam:nin).

[Nirokun!]

i remember getting in a fight with kuno about getting that for my melee whm, and him wanting it for his blm

i dont know if he has it yet (dont think so?), but i dont really want it anymore because i havent meleed on whm in a long time i leveled blu and that has mp

but it doesnt have hexastrike

maybe i'll melee some today :3

[darkhero168]

a straight answer would be nice. as mentioned before someone had said ninurta's sash, but last i heard AV doesn't pump that shit out all that often. I've seen lots of those immitation pictures that mention 'sam and it's sash' and was just wondering what all the talk was about.

He is talking about Ninurta's Sash. The first person to get a Ninurta's Sash led the LS and so took it for himself -- he was a SAM. Thus followed a long debate on this forum flaming him for taking it for his SAM rather than giving it to someone else, followed by people calling him a greedy bastard, followed by him trying to defend the Sash as being as good for a SAM as it is for a NIN, followed by everyone else calling him a greedy lying bastard, followed by him flaming everyone and telling them to GTFO.

In short, a SAM wearing a Ninurta's Sash has become a joke around here from a long dead thread. Do a forum search for "Map," "Absolute Virtue" and "lolsash," you'll probably find the thread(s). The drama thread might have links for it as well.

I believe Suiram's point was that although it might be good for BLM, it's a far, far better piece of gear for a Dark Knight. Similar to the Sash being good for SAM, but a far, far better piece for NIN (and possibly other jobs). (Of course, I could be wrong, I've been known to interpret internet sarcasm wrong before).

ah ok thanks for the clarification :D

[Kaylia]

I'm not sure why you think dexterity would have any bearing on the flooring effect of +skill items and the skill-to-accuracy calculation. but believe what you want. to answer the implied question: skill accuracy is calculated in a different step than dexterity accuracy, since skill accuracy has it's own internal formula. there's no reason to expect that SE doesn't floor both terms individually, since that's the way that most serial math calculations are handled in this game. (it's likely that every operation is being carried out in integer math so the flooring happens as soon as the fraction 'would' exist.) like this: ((int)((Skill - 200) * 0.9) + 200 ) + ((int)(Dex/2))

What I'm saying is that we don't know exacty when the number is floored. They could easily keep the hexa value for both dex and skill, then floor the number after adding them.

If you tell me in similar situation, they are using decimal number and floor each number individually, then you are probably right.

[Indalecia]

It's a great question, but really are any of the torques sans Love's really that big of a deal anymore?

I'd imagine there's still people who are just now getting sea, LSs just forming for sea/starting sea. Plus I'll bet a lot of long-time LSs have that one cape/torque that never drops. For us we've seen one DRG cape in 22 months of weekly sea farming lol

Trade you for other capes?

We've seen a good 7 or 8 out of 25 or so Ix'Drg kills >.>

/tell me next time Tyth, I'll happily take if off your hands. :D

[Bagel]

I have 5/7 Torques 2/3 Capes and 1/2 Earrings, but I don't have Hope Staff for PUP

[Sidanoir]

I have 5/7 Torques 2/3 Capes and 1/2 Earrings, but I don't have Hope Staff for PUP

GTFO with that sad face!

5/7 torques and 2/3 capes <.<

lolHOPE STAFF!

[Not Kuno]

I have the torque niro.

And yes I love it for blm. It kicks ass because Im usually above 50% mp and I dont get resisted much.