Einherjar Tier 2 [Now with more bitching!]

[Sargas]

People showing up for Eij as we speak. Wish us luck on another Tier II run tonight

Theres totally a vampire tonight. I can feel the icy chill.....


Onica 8)

hate to crush your bubble but Vampyrs are in Wing 3.

Not trying to argue, but where'd you get this info from? Other then bahlran i havn't seen any pics that would say vampires arn't in tier 2

From here:

The following monsters have been introduced:
Dvergr/Vampyr

*These enemies are scheduled to appear in the 3rd wing of the Hazhalm Testing Grounds (opening soon).

Note that the update notes at POL no longer mention this since they added Tier 3 Einherjar.

[kuronosan]

one group can go in with 36 people, get max hounds and max skeletons with a marid boss
and inevitably wipe (if they even get to the marid with all the aoe paralyze and aoe drain going on)

vs

one group can go in with 15 people, get 6 hounds and wivre boss, and clear with 10 minutes to go.

or vice versa of course, group of 36 enters and gets 12 incredibly easy pussy mobs and an easy boss, now its all "Einherjar {Too Weak} wwwwwww".

So? It's not like it matters in the long run. You win some, you lose some. Big groups will win more than small groups. Skilled groups will win more than retarded groups. Marid is silly and broken, but excluding that I like the random element and the possibility to actually lose to something in FFXI.

Are you just bad when it comes to reading comprehension? Nynja's saying the idiocy of Einherjar is that a group of 36 top-of-the-line players can go in and get Marid+15 elementals+15 skellies and still lose because of the amount of time it takes for 36 ELITE players to go through them in 30 minutes... versus a group of 18 of the same type going in at the same TIME can go in and clear the room because all they got was 7 toads and a wivre. It does matter in the long run.

Einherjar needs scaled difficulty, not complete randomness. There's no way you can complete it with 6 people unless you entered and were lucky enough to beat the .01% chance you get toads and an easy boss... and even that says a lot.

It needs fixing. Just because 5-6 linkshells serverwide can beat it doesn't mean it's worth it.

[Rammses]

Uh, maybe SE just didn't intend 6-man statics to be able to complete Einherjar? Crazy, I know.

Any HNM/Dynamis/Sea linkshell can beat Einherjar, at least the first two tiers. We've not been particulary lucky with the mobs. 2/7 Marids, 3/7 skeletons in Tier I. But we could still have beaten 7/9 with 30 people, and that's not too bad. The randomness would have been really frustrating if it was a 3-hour event, but it's not. I like how adaption and coordination matters more than pre-set "stolen" strategies. The rewards look pretty lame, especially abjuration drop rate, but so far the fun challange and the prospect of killing Odin is more than enough to motivate me at least.

[NynJa]

Read what I said again please.

Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING. Its all about what SE decides to throw in your face when you enter. You're either destined to win or lose from the getgo.

[Sagacious Sundi]

What's everyone's opinion on the following?: If there were 2 bosses for each chamber (maybe 4 bosses for each wing 3 chamber). It increases your chances of getting stuff like the marid or golem boss, but at least it allows you to come prepared and focuses your hate on more specific chambers, rather than Einherjar as a whole. Also, what if they added relic+1 here? (I'm think NQ relic would fit in Nyzul floors 60/80/100.) Like each chamber (sans Odin's) corresponds to 1 job, and something like:
Wing 1: Feet
Wing 2: Hands
Wing 3: Head
Odin's: Body/Legs

[Rammses]

Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING. Its all about what SE decides to throw in your face when you enter. You're either destined to win or lose from the getgo.

Bollocks. How many times have you even done Einherjar?

[NynJa]

Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING. Its all about what SE decides to throw in your face when you enter. You're either destined to win or lose from the getgo.

Bollocks. How many times have you even done Einherjar?

Three, where we took it in the ass religiously because of the stupid luck factor invovled.

First run: 12 Ghosts -> 12 Big Bats -> Manticore Boss (Manticore raped everyone because we were all baffled at the weird hate reset, people getting up from raise getting smoked by tail smash, this run wasnt exactly a confidence killer, since this is how we thought they all are)
Seconds run: 12 Hounds -> 12 Triple Bats -> Malboro Boss
Third Run: 12 Skeletons -> 12 worms -> Wivre Boss


Then reading how people go in and go "yeah, we had 6 of this mob and a boss, its fkn easy", designates its SIMPLY LUCK FACTOR.

[Vinto]

Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING. Its all about what SE decides to throw in your face when you enter. You're either destined to win or lose from the getgo.

Bollocks. How many times have you even done Einherjar?

Three, where we took it in the ass religiously because of the stupid luck factor invovled.

First run: 12 Ghosts -> 12 Big Bats -> Manticore Boss (Manticore raped everyone because we were all baffled at the weird hate reset, people getting up from raise getting smoked by tail smash, this run wasnt exactly a confidence killer, since this is how we thought they all are)
Seconds run: 12 Hounds -> 12 Triple Bats -> Malboro Boss
Third Run: 12 Skeletons -> 12 worms -> Wivre Boss


Then reading how people go in and go "yeah, we had 6 of this mob and a boss, its fkn easy", designates its SIMPLY LUCK FACTOR.

You wiped to worms and wivre?

[NynJa]

No, we wiped to that area because we had somewhere around 20-24 people, and only a handful of bards (3 or 4) to deal with 12 skeletons who can only be slept by those 3-4 bards at a shitty rate due to the double dark weather in the area.

We never even got to the worms

[Rammses]

Bring more people? If you don't have lots of people you gotta rely on luck. Is it SE's fault if you lose to Dynamis-Qufim or Dynamis Lord with 20-24 people too? Einherjar isn't a small scale event, it's really as simple as that.

30-36 skilled people would probably have won all those setups you mentioned. 30-36 dumb people most likely would have not. But Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING, right?

[Tajin]

Bring more people? If you don't have lots of people you gotta rely on luck. Is it SE's fault if you lose to Dynamis-Qufim or Dynamis Lord with 20-24 people too? Einherjar isn't a small scale event, it's really as simple as that.

OK...

30-36 skilled people would probably have won all those setups you mentioned. 30-36 dumb people most likely would have not. But Einherjar has NOTHING to do with skill, absolutely NOTHING, right?

-_-


Sure there is a lot of skill in numbers

[Toth]

The problem with Einherjar is that SE said that this can be done with 6-36 people. Now, in previous multiplayer battlefields, having low numbers of skilled players has shown that you can always accomplish something. You can do Salvage with 6 people (in fact the lower than 10, the better). You can clear many Limbus tiers with 6 easily. You can even farm coins and af2 in dynamis with 6. Heck, you can even do 3 man Nyzul Isle runs for tokens. However, Einherjar has proven itself very unforgiving and the only shells that can muster 36 people have been having success. I definately forsee some type of nerfing next update because while I don't mind the randomness factor, you should get some kind of reward for each run (therions for example), regardless if you kill the mega boss.

[Rammses]

Tajin: Do you even read the text you quote?

The problem with Einherjar is that SE said that this can be done with 6-36 people.

Exactly when did they say this? Unless they have specifically stated it can be done with 6 people, I would think that the 6 people limit is there to avoid griefing with chamber holding etc.

[NynJa]

Dynamis Xarcabard holds 64 people, but DL is regularly killed with 25.
CoP dynamis holds 36, but its been done with 20-25.
Salvage requires 6-18 people, but its been demonstrated often that its actually EASIER with around 8-10


Einherjar says you need 6-36 people, yet the only way you seemingly can win with less then 33 is if SE throws you a frickin bone and only gives you 1 set of mobs instead of 2. Even if you have 36, SE can throw you utter shit like Dark Ele + Kraken + Marid, and you STILL are fucked from the getgo.

[Tajin]

Yes, yes i did, you do not make sense. You say, to bring more people, and that you need 36 skilled people as opposed to 36 unskilled ones. Also you say 30-36 skilled people probably can win said runs. Now, why would 36 skilled players probably win? If you are taking the max number of people, and they are all skilled. Should not it be a sure win?

Also Toth is right, SE advertised Einherjar as a 6 - 36 people event.

Edit: Nynja already explained some stuff too above.

From POL: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff ... etail.html

Einherjar (05/28/2007)

A new, massively multiplayer battlefield is in the works for the upcoming version update.
The following is a brief outline on the new, multi-faceted feature:

Concept

Einherjar is an ever-changing multiplayer battlefield based in the Hazhalm Training Grounds. Because the monsters appearing in the dungeons will differ with each visit, a balanced party consisting of skilled, high-level players is recommended to clear these challenging missions.

Participation
6 to 36 players, level 60 and above, can enter each chamber of the Hazhalm Testing Grounds. An item similar to the hourglass used for Dynamis will allow parties to reserve one of the multiple areas, and will be required for entry. No previous Aht Urhgan missions need to be completed before participating.

HEEEYYY i can take 36 level 60 players with uber skillz and get phat lootz!

[AzazaelFenrir]

quick tier 2 question, do you lose a tier 1 key item to get in? or are all 9 items lost on the last chamber?

[fantasticdan]

I wish einherjar did scale, trying to get 30-36 dedicated members to show up for something with little to no reward is pretty difficult(like 1/3 drop rate on ONE abjuration for a full clear, you get nothing if you lose), not to mention the constant need for an assload of brds. I don't really have the opportunity to give a real shot at einherjar, since I can't get more than 16-22ish friends, friends of friends, and ls members who are actually interested. Also feel kind of stupid spending like an hour and a half gathering people together for a 30 minute event, that there's a good chance we'll wipe and warp way earlier than that. Even worse yet, if someone misses one run you will have to have the other 30-36 members clear that run again, or they get locked out.

I just do not like the way it was implemented at all.

[Rammses]

quick tier 2 question, do you lose a tier 1 key item to get in? or are all 9 items lost on the last chamber?

You don't lose any key items until you enter Odin's Chamber.

[liafail]

What I see is a lot of people complaining about how dumb this is because they lost. Can we please go back to facts and information instead of quibbling.

[Vellaron]

Einherjar is too hard. We should all give up.