-DeathHouse- dynamis (unique lotting system)

[Zosi]

Griev, have you ever done any of the harder Dynamis zones where you don't get 10 AF every run? I get the impression you haven't, because you keep ignoring the fundamental inequality of drop rates on AF pieces. Letting people lot on any AF is fine if you're doing something like Bastok where there's a good chance you get a particular job's piece every run or two. It falls apart when you can go 6 months or more without seeing a particular piece that a lot of people need drop. Imagine the drama if someone who never really had any competition for their job (and therefore has spent very few points) leveled BLM to 75, and then a few days after they dinged, outbid (and outlotted) all the experienced and hard-working BLMs in your LS on a BLM hat from Xarc.

[Grieverao]

Then if they've worked hard at getting points and lvld that job up to 70+ and saved up they have just as much right.

If the BLMs in the LS working hard for a hat value it so much then they would obviously retain their points for that item. Like a SAM wanting to forefit his drops to save for Saotome Kabuto and get it.

I really do understand where you are coming from and yeah just like in all LS's at some point or another there may be friction about it.

But if our 75 BLMs have spent their points on getting sya their THF or WAR gear then thats what they have decided to spend their points on.

Its only just the same as a normal points basis where a member may have been waiting on RDM hat for months but ended up spening the majority of his/her points on getting DRG gear. To then lose the lot based on points for the hat to another member who's sole goal was to get a Pimp Hat v2.

The bidding system helps players decide how much they really value their AF.
By keeping a record of what members have what AF also helps too.
Like me for eg.

I wont be placing the same value on SAM body or legs as I would say for feet or hands.
Legs and body would be just a R/E+1 town gear thing.

As with all LSs there will be differences. I don't want the people here who don't believe in it to go "OMFG ill totally join I love it now you explained it Griev!"
I can't change your thoughts and opinions.
But I can explain in a clear light exactly how our system works and how it will eventually make us a success on Hades.


Any support is welcomed, any constructive criticism is noted and any flaming is just ignored.

[vegetaa]

Griev, have you ever done any of the harder Dynamis zones where you don't get 10 AF every run? I get the impression you haven't, because you keep ignoring the fundamental inequality of drop rates on AF pieces. Letting people lot on any AF is fine if you're doing something like Bastok where there's a good chance you get a particular job's piece every run or two. It falls apart when you can go 6 months or more without seeing a particular piece that a lot of people need drop. Imagine the drama if someone who never really had any competition for their job (and therefore has spent very few points) leveled BLM to 75, and then a few days after they dinged, outbid (and outlotted) all the experienced and hard-working BLMs in your LS on a BLM hat from Xarc.

Here is the problem with your rules. Cleophie summed it very well. Xarcabard will be stingy, people will lose patience, and a single unfair loot distribution eventually will fuck the whole thing. This happened many times, in many LSs. You're basically dealing with the only issue with points systems : they become unfair as soon as some of the drops in a zone are better than others, with the same chance of dropping.

[Grieverao]

So it's a bridge we all must cross then

[Zosi]

It's not about people saving points for a hat instead of spending it on other job's gear, you wouldn't even be able to spend points on BLM gear without jeopardizing your chances of a hat, because you're competing with everyone in the LS who has BLM leveled. That's why most linkshells have the main lot designations to keep the level of competition reasonable and prevent people from needing to bid every point they have just to get one piece of AF for one job.

[Mifaco]

from the rules page:

Never use a weaponskill on a NIN mob. You will be notified in due time whether the approaching mob is a NIN. We don't need to tell you twice. Any form of spike damage to a NIN mob will result in it using it's NIN "2-Hour" thus damaging our alliance on a large scale.

o noez don't let the nin majin gakur

We will not condone the leeching of a flag. If you are late you are late. If you turn up halfway through or at the end of a run you will not be allowed to enter to touch the "???". You didn't put the effort in like everyone else so why obtain the spoils. If you feel you have a genuine concern about this if the occasion arises please notify a LS Officer.

;_;

In the event of a wipe all Raises will be cycled by our mages to conserve time and MP. You will accept what you are given with the exception to those who have de-levelled and those pulling. If you do not accept a Raise then you will either have to lie there or Home Point. In the rare chance we do wipe then we need to be up and ready ASAP.

so they reward having an empty buffer with R3, sign me up!

[Zosi]

Never use a weaponskill on a NIN mob. You will be notified in due time whether the approaching mob is a NIN. We don't need to tell you twice. Any form of spike damage to a NIN mob will result in it using it's NIN "2-Hour" thus damaging our alliance on a large scale.

If you think that not using WSs prevents mobs from using Mijin, you deserve the wipe that's coming.

[Kazen]

3 gaming experiance and hundreds of dynamis runs, then visit our website and sign up.



applications are currently handled on a personal basis, and our first run is scheduled for
Wednesday the 11th of July
Dynamis- Sandoria
6pm EST ~ 11pm GMT ~ 2am JSTyears

Thats the only part I dont understand, but maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

[Kainstryder]

Never use a weaponskill on a NIN mob. You will be notified in due time whether the approaching mob is a NIN. We don't need to tell you twice. Any form of spike damage to a NIN mob will result in it using it's NIN "2-Hour" thus damaging our alliance on a large scale.

It's called save TP till 50%, spam WS and throw 1-2 stuns in and no mijin. Seriously, you've never done a Xarcabard w/ the NIN NM demon have you? HAY GUYZ DONT USE WS IT'LL BE OK AT 50% OH SHIT WHY IS THE PLD FACING BLMS TURN THE THING AWAY OH GOD IT EXPLODED R3 FOR EVERYONE

[Hanyoko]

It's called save TP till 50%, spam WS and throw 1-2 stuns in and no mijin. Seriously, you've never done a Xarcabard w/ the NIN NM demon have you? HAY GUYZ DONT USE WS IT'LL BE OK AT 50% OH SHIT WHY IS THE PLD FACING BLMS TURN THE THING AWAY OH GOD IT EXPLODED R1 FOR EVERYONE

Fixed for reality

[vegetaa]

It's called save TP till 50%, spam WS and throw 1-2 stuns in and no mijin. Seriously, you've never done a Xarcabard w/ the NIN NM demon have you? HAY GUYZ DONT USE WS IT'LL BE OK AT 50% OH SHIT WHY IS THE PLD FACING BLMS TURN THE THING AWAY OH GOD IT EXPLODED HOMEPOINTZ FOR EVERYONE

Fixed for reality

Even more.

[goshtin]

I've never liked that idea for mijin gkkre.. you cant trust many people to do that right, and since its a new shell people are probably gonna have trouble telling where 50% is anyway. seriously.. I remember my first few dynamis runs.. we were lucky to have people following assists..

WSing at 50% doesn't do much but save a few seconds.. and it's effective for a more experianced group..with EXPERIANCE can let you do some of the cities with less than a full alliance..

BG forum seems like /b/ now... full of screaming children... only a few of you pointed out valid things, which me and griev have spoken about. Me and Griev have done LOADS of dynamis and we both want to level relic. We aren't noobs dressed in lvl 50 gear throwing bodies at dynamis, and to compete with other shells we needed somthing making us different. The bidding system does just that, but you guys are acting like it's communism or somthing. Griev and me aren't gonna stand around treating our own shell like shit, just because some other faggots somewhere have...if I wanted to rob people, I'd just ninja lot ppl and keep changing my name

1. the miniumum lvl to lot is 70
2. if a ANYONE wants to hoarde points to get a specific piece of armour then THATS the point. if you place a lot more value on the blm hat over the other pieces, bidding will be low, UNLESS you place more value on the blm feet and splerge all ur points.. it's forcing ppl to be more picky with what they get so we dont get 5-6 veteren shell members hoarding all the af, just because they "sort of like the way the summoner horn looks"
3. we have a lot of different ways to make points (includng additional events) so we can try and build a community. A lot of these guys are server crosses and dont know much about Hades. Dynamis is an easier reason to get people together.. social shells are nice, but when they dont do shit, they get boring, and they break apart. and I aint taking ppl to dragons Aery


my cats whinning for food now so I'm gonna go feed him.. if anyone has a valid point to make, PLEASE do it without the "txt speek".. otherwise you can write it down on a piece of paper and fax it to my ass...

[vegetaa]

BG forum seems like /b/ now... full of screaming children... only a few of you pointed out valid things

You asked for opinions. Here at BG, you can find members of the most successful dynamis and end-game LSs. Most of them agree on the fact there is no perfect loot distribution system. And above that, points systems can fail horribly, especially in LSs where only the will to see items drop binds people together.

The rules you submit to BG's judgement have been made in tens, perhaps hundreds of shells before. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. Because people are people, and something will eventually happen, that someone will judge unfair. And drama will appear and BG will appreciate it.

After years of dynamis, it seems that the most successfull groups are normal end-game LSs doing Dynamis runs. There are exception, often in old LSs where people have been doing Dynamis for years and are close friends. But for 1 successful group, dozens have failed horribly and disbanded.

What you're reading in this thread is just based on the fact your LS has way bigger chances to fail and disappear, than to be amazingly successful. Now go ahead, get people their flags and AFs, come back in a year and tell us you farm DL with 15 and clear Tavnazia...and then you'll get truely positive comments (or maybe not, because sometimes people just don't care about you and your stories...Dynamis has been covered for years now, hundreds of relics have been upgraded, and there isn't much secret left in there)(wait, perhaps if you upgrade Great Sword/Staff/Club...)

[Amele]

BG forum seems like /b/ now... full of screaming children... only a few of you pointed out valid things, which me and griev have spoken about. Me and Griev have done LOADS of dynamis and we both want to level relic.

BG is not here to be your recruiting board. notice how this forum is called "advice" and not "recruitment".

BG is not here to praise your 'different' bidding system for being a beautiful and unique butterfly; go here if that's what you're looking for.

BG *is* here to give you advice, but you didn't ask for any. Congratulations, we gave you lots - just because you didn't care to hear it doesn't suddenly make anyone here a screaming child - or is that a temper tantrum I sense?

We aren't noobs dressed in lvl 50 gear throwing bodies at dynamis, and to compete with other shells we needed somthing making us different.
The bidding system does just that, but you guys are acting like it's communism or somthing.

wanna be different? don't use points.

Griev and me aren't gonna stand around treating our own shell like shit, just because some other faggots somewhere have...if I wanted to rob people, I'd just ninja lot ppl and keep changing my name

have fun doing dynamis with 2 blackmages, 1 redmage, no whitemages, and 30 2handed melee who probably won't have ninja leveled.

[goshtin]

I understand people are having opinions, and voicing them on a public forum, but it'd help if people could read the rules first >_<

I am thankful for input (I spent much time coming up with this system with friends on Hades), but I'm sure we've already adressed many of the key issues.

(and no, you aren't really as bad as /b/.... nothing is now...)

[Grieverao]

I spent a some of my own Dynamis experience in a no-points based LS. It failed.

[Zosi]

First off, YOU guys posted HERE. We didn't hunt you down to make fun of your rules. Your buddy posted here about how great and unique they were, thus opening the door for comments of any nature. As the previous comment says, there's a lot of very skilled and experienced people who read BG, some of us have even actually done "hundreds" of Dynamis runs like you claim to have. If you post something that we find blatantly stupid, we're going to call you on it.

The most obvious valid point that's been made recently is that spike damage does NOT cause NIN mobs to 2hr. Anyone who's done more than a half dozen Dynamis runs could tell you that. NIN mobs are increasingly likely to Mijin at low HP percentage, whether you've just WSed or not. You can melee them down as much as you'd like, if they live for more than a few seconds at less than 30% HP, you're highly likely to eat a Mijin. As someone else has noted, it's easiest to see on the NIN NM in Xarcabard. The reason most shells say to save TP until 50% is so the NIN mobs dies so quickly to the flurry of WSs that it doesn't have a chance to 2hr at all, and you can do the same to WHM mobs so they die before they Bene.

Not knowing such a basic concept about Dynamis really makes me wonder what exactly you were doing for those "hundreds" of Dynamis runs, hitting your assist macro and watching Jerry Springer?

About your loot system, obviously that's subjective. I've been trying to give you suggestions and feedback from an LS that's used a system similar to what you describe for the past year or so, however, we seem to have differing objectives. My LS tries to distribute AF2 in a manner that keeps our members happy, and gives even new members chances at AF. You seem to think that the people with the most points should be able to get whatever they want, and screw the rest. As yet another example of how easy it'd be to take advantage of your system, by your rules only the top three eligible people are allowed to bid. You assume they'll enter a bidding war and spend a large percentage of their points, but what's stopping them from making an agreement to lower their bids to single digits while maintaining relative point expenditures? In other words, the person with the most points would bid 5 points, then the second place would bid 4 points, and the third would bid 3. Nobody else would be able to bid against them, and they would keep their status as the top three point holders unless someone was so close that 3 points would change the rankings. Either way, they've successfully gamed your system to maintain their advantage.

If you really want to be different, don't act like every other noob city farming shell that has graced the game with their presences. Your loot system is neither particularly innovative nor particularly good, and the impression we get from reading your rules is that you guys are idiots who've done a bunch of city runs and suddenly think that they can run a successful Dynamis shell. Unless I'm misreading your terrible Excel point sheet (blue means access, and green means cleared?), your roster has a whopping 23 people, most with only one job, 2 with Northlands experience and most with no flags at all. I read that as... Goshtin was in a decent LS that was able to kill DL, farm a little bit of CoP but not really win much. He got sick of seeing people who actually deserve AF get it over him (after all, all he got was 4 pieces of DRK), so he struck out on his own with some of his friends who couldn't get into a decent LS. They recruited a bunch of random people by shouting in Whitegate, and an LS was born!

[Shuemue]

Not knowing such a basic concept about Dynamis really makes me wonder what exactly you were doing for those "hundreds" of Dynamis runs, hitting your assist macro and watching Jerry Springer?

I lol'd

[Sidanoir]

Linkshell onri dynamis solves so much of the issues in running a succesful dynamis shell..
No matter how good your system is loot wise and how fair, your always going to have people trying to beat the system and those who get drops and bounce..
I was in two public dynamis LS before running my own public one....have been doing LS only for 2+ years now and its far superior and more satisfying. Nothing like seeing drops go to people you WANT them to go to, rather than some random shmuck you don't like or know.

BTW we use points...only thing we don't use /point for is dynamis (well and Salvage)

[goshtin]

the thing about ninjas.. maybe you have a point there, but even when some of my previous LSs did WS at 50% with stun, we still somtime got mijinnd.. so I dunno

what you just pointed out about the possibilty of the 3 top points holders colluding is valid (THANKYOU). It's good that you pointed it out, but I'm sure we woulda noticed if the winning bid for rdm hat was 5points or somthing daft. 2 ways to fix this off the top of my head indirectly:
1. a larger minimum bid on the icelands AF. say 7 points or somthing. the armour would be good enough to warrent the point expenditure
2. we can increase the gap by how much ppl need to outbid by from 1point to say 3. even if ppl are colluding, ppl would still need to outbid to prevent lotting.

these are problems that can be easily fixed by slightly adjusting the rules, and I'm not worried. But dont make this personal thanks... I've been in a few dynamis shells which I've ended up leaving due to RL and other things.. and drk is my main, I didn't WANT any other af.. dont start saying stuff about "deserving"

(I've been putting off my own dynamis shell for a long time, because I didn't want it to be some miserable failure shell. people who actually know me, will know I've spent a long time sorting this out in my head, and now I'd decided to do it when I got THF75.. which I have)

I know this is looking like just another "lets get rELIC!" shell.. but it isn't.. you ppl have just seen too many to have any faith left.. also we dont plan on changing any of the more serious rules, but thing like "turn party macros off" yeah lol.. that probably doesn't matter