BLM Merits

[nivlakian]

Something tell me we are just arguing wording >_>. Caster A with 100 int won't have the same resist than Caster B with 200 int. One with 150 int would have resist somewhere between A and B. That's what I'm calling magic accuracy. It's been proven a long time ago, and it's also easily noticeable.

Is INT directly proportional to a "m.acc" ? I believe so when I compare elvaan to Taru on various mobs like Fafnir and Aerns. You will never notice a huge gap, but the resist rate is different. I understand perfectly it's not a proof, because the sample cover only a small part of the fonction (not to mention BLM are usually close to resist soft cape), but there would be situation where huge gaps could be observed between race (~16 int difference) if it was using a tier system.

My assumption that 1 elemental skill = ~1 m.accuracy (0.9 above 200 maybe?) = ~0.5 int works generally well when it come to explain magic resistance at 75.

I don't think Suiram is arguing simply wording.

The race difference is 11 (or 13?) for same job/same sub at most if I'm not mistaken. Many BLMs tend to have similar setups and have +30-something meaning most BLMs will have between 100 and 120 int. Getting to 150 or 200 requires lots of gear that is generally not used, potions and/or a brd.

Other than Kirin testimonies, I don't think one could say that this INT/resist issue is generally observed due to the gear issue and people having different merits. For your Fafnir example, other factors come into play such as when threnody was on and when it wore. Also, unless you actually did a count, I wouldn't say eyeballing it from time to time is an acceptable thing to do. The Aern example might be better though (especially since it's non-NM) if there was an actual count done and gear/merits recorded. If it has been proven long ago as you say, a link might help.

As for Kirin, given the damage that elemental magic does to him suggests he has an absurd amount of INT. Due to this, the testimonies of a brd using etudes and causing lower resists may come from either INT having a direct relation to resists as you say or may be some factor where you have a resist rate penalty due to being so far below him among other explanations one might come up with.

[Suiram]

Not arguing wording, more like arguing what constitutes established fact. If you polled a random collection of blms asking them "does INT factor into resist rate" you'd probably get near as many 'no' as you'd get 'yes'; then of the people who answered yes half would say "It's your INT vs. the mob's INT" and the other half would say "No you noobs it's your INT vs. the mob's MND" (check any number of threads on these forums for instances of this lol). I personally tend to say "it's undecided" but if pressed for an opinion I do think when it finally comes out it will be INT vs. target's something as a component of final magic accuracy, but while you say "it's been proven long ago" the closest thing to a proof I've ever read was the 200 or so casts Lhexh just posted above you.

Anyhow that's my view on the general question, we agree more or less, but just I'm not as confident as you are in our shared opinion. As for stating any kind of specific formula, whether it's 2 INT >> 1 macc or 0.9 skill = 1 macc, I do feel that such a statement is way premature, considering the above question isn't even completely resolved.

Edit: Plus everything Niv said too lol

[Kaylia]

Difference is 13 for rdm/blm, just checked. I thought it was 16. Concerning fafnir, I'm talking about bardless faf with 2-3blm at most, otherwise there is too much factor. You can also notice resist difference on Aern that pop Ix'Drg in a long manaburn. I will try to save parsing next time I do it.

Not arguing wording, more like arguing what constitutes established fact.If you polled a random collection of blms asking them "does INT factor into resist rate" you'd probably get near as many 'no' as you'd get 'yes'; then of the people who answered yes half would say "It's your INT vs. the mob's INT" and the other half would say "No you noobs it's your INT vs. the mob's MND" (check any number of threads on these forums for instances of this lol).

I never said or implied it was a fact, which is why I don't understand the current argument. The reason why I said the "tier" argument need more back up than "m.acc" is because the current parsing and observation hints that way. Imagining a tier system from the little we have is much harder than a direct relation

If I had access to a rdm, I would go nuke pudding like Lhexh did, but BLM is my only job. Would be nice if any RDM could do it for 70int, 90int, 110int and 130int and 150int (3 different int build would work as well), we could figure out if it's a direct relation or not easily.

[Suiram]

Actually you don't even need to have rdm 75 to test it. If I were to test this, I would take a job that can wear errant but has no innate elemental skill, such as WHM BLU PUP SMN or BRD. Sub BLM37, find a mob around a level range such that that level is about C skill to my elemental skill from subjob + merits. Determine its INT (or the INT range for all of the spawns), then do 3 trials, one with 20 less INT than target, one with equal INT to target, and one with 20 more or 30 more. Not sure how many casts per trial would be sufficient. To get -INT I'm not sure if it'll be easy, you might even have less to begin with, then things like andvaranauts, cursed soup or adamantoise soup etc. To get +INT is easy just put on errant and some snow rings.

[Kaylia]

Actually you don't even need to have rdm 75 to test it. If I were to test this, I would take a job that can wear errant but has no innate elemental skill, such as WHM BLU PUP SMN or BRD. Sub BLM37, find a mob around a level range such that that level is about C skill to my elemental skill from subjob + merits. Determine its INT (or the INT range for all of the spawns), then do 3 trials, one with 20 less INT than target, one with equal INT to target, and one with 20 more or 30 more. Not sure how many casts per trial would be sufficient. To get -INT I'm not sure if it'll be easy, you might even have less to begin with, then things like andvaranauts, cursed soup or adamantoise soup etc. To get +INT is easy just put on errant and some snow rings.

True, I didn't think about the subjob thing. Not that it help me tho, just have Samurai/Warrior/Blackmage leveled. I was thinking about going back to riverne, but I dont think I would get resist with elemental merit now. (Riverne was actually the first place where I started thinking abuot m.acc, because there was a noticeable difference between naked BLM and fully geared blm (+20 int I think)

There is another problem with that strats too possibly. If there is another "your level" vs "monster level" formula, doing something like this might possibly give you weird result considering monster are 37 level above the monsters. High stats could explain high level monster resist, but level might also play a role.

[Suiram]

Another thing I've read (unverified or unknown verification same as INT vs. whatever) is that mobs and players have natural 'resistance' which is a C-rated skill to all elements and there is an elemental magic vs. resistance level component to magic accuracy, and that the equip screen icons are just +/- to that resistance level. That's why I suggested finding a mob whose level is such that your elemental skill from subjob is equal to c-rated skill for that level, so that if this is indeed true it should effectively cancel one-another out and not affect the testing.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, it could work that way, was just saying what could potentially go wrong with that test. It would be interesting to know if that "magic evasion skill" (can we call it like this?) is influenced by mnd or int as well (+0.5magic evasion/stats like agi), but this would be a pain to prove.

I'm probably going to start testing it once my WHM ding 75 (60 and on the way). I'm surprised it was never done before