PLD/NIN or PLD/WAR Situations

[Faxanadu]

I pretty much agree with Therin, but I actually have a quick question: In situations where you're going /DRK or /RDM, how do they compare with /WHM? I know with the former 2, you get more targetable enfeebles for hate, but the latter gives you more MDB (probably the most useful of the pros), more MP, DS, and Curagas, Erase, and every -na but Stona, which you can't cast on yourself anyway.

You lose Phalanx, Blind, Bind, Sleep, and Resist Petrify in the case of RDM, and Bind, Sleep, and Stun in the case of DRK.

Well curaga only works well if your hitting multiple people with it and actualy curing a big chunk of hp's on 'em. Usually in theory only you and your co-tank will be taking damage, the exception being JOL where your probably using at least 3 tanks. I don't think erase pulls much (if any) hate. Para and Slow are comparably long casting spells making them less efficen't then, say, Blind. Mp shouldn't be an issue. DS is useful, but if you are in need of a DS->Cure IV, i would rather be trying to time my next cure IV without messing with using DS.

I'd say /whm is only good for JoL, but i still prefer /rdm myself.



I disagree with Therin in a couple things, use /nin on Faf/Nid. And for sea, a good general rule is to go /war for everything on the inside and /nin for outside Jailers (excpet for JOL).


On a side note, the other day i was rushing to Sky to beat the RMT's to Faust and forgot that i was still /rdm. LS just told me to stay /rdm cause they were afraid to lose it. They pulled it, i flashed, poped Sentinal, then spammed blind, bind, flash and DIspell (which pulls nice hate). I didn't bother with stoneskin after it initaly wore. I kept Blaze spikes and Phalanx up as well. Tanked the whole thing without losing hate. It actualy went smoother than subing /war.

[BRP]

In a pure kiting fight(100% to 1%) with a monster that can be stunned, is PLD/DRK the best hate holder? I know very little about alternative combos beyond /NIN.

[Ferien]

Faf and Nid are easy enough that it doesn't really matter unless you're short-handed. We've been doing it safely /WAR for the last 3.5 years now, and it's only gotten easier. Sure /NIN makes it a little easier on your mages, but it really doesn't make enough of a difference to matter.

Rest of it makes sense though, except Erase would be used more to...you know...Erase shit than it would be for hate. Didn't consider the speeds of Para and Slow, but in that case, Sleep and Bind are just as slow, only difference is you'd have Fast Cast as /RDM. Curagas would end up being useless though, especially on something like Ouryu where you can pretty much cover your own healing with the right gear and strategy.

For kiting...I wouldn't use /DRK. It's enough of a pain to get Flash to cast while kiting that adding another spell (or 3) to the mix is a horrible inconvenience IMO. One of the PLDs in my old LS tried it on Kirin once and uh...he held hate for a full one second during the fight. Granted, with practice it'd work better, but I haven't seen a compelling reason to switch.

[Faxanadu]

Meh, erase is irrelevant if your whm is on the ball. Fast cast is a godsend though, whether your subbing /nin or /rdm.

going /war for faf is appealing though, don't know how many times i've seen "...starts casting Flash on Fafnir" followed by "your target is already claimed". I guess the theory with /nin is, the hate threshold is so high, that by the 20% mark your blm's can nuke at will.

I can't think of a single event that i would want to come as /drk, but im open to sugestions.

[Cephius]

Meh, erase is irrelevant if your whm is on the ball. Fast cast is a godsend though, whether your subbing /nin or /rdm.

going /war for faf is appealing though, don't know how many times i've seen "...starts casting Flash on Fafnir" followed by "your target is already claimed". I guess the theory with /nin is, the hate threshold is so high, that by the 20% mark your blm's can nuke at will.

I can't think of a single event that i would want to come as /drk, but im open to sugestions.

From my experience, the reasoning that going /WAR to a camp gives you a better chance to claim is an illusion. With the way claims work nowadays, you have just as much chance to claim something with provoke as you do with flash, given how much the claim delay can vary from day to day. The difference is that when you start casting flash but miss the claim, you think "Oh damn, I started, I was so close!" vs. when you get blocked on provoke, you see no message and the assocaited "just missed it" feeling isn't there. When in fact, it's the same situation with the same results.

The only situation I can think of where PLD/DRK would be useful is a JoL that is meleeburned. In this situation, there is no melee damage to worry about and there is no kiting aspect. If JoL turns it's attention away from the PLD, it usually means someone just got one-shotted. PLD/DRK would retain tremendous amounts of hate in this situation, more than with war or nin subs, while not sacrificing much damage mitigation (sans the single target IV spells).

[Grey Jorildyn]

pld/drk is kinda neat in xarcabard. as asdra stated, some of out LS paladins use it. also, for kiting Vrtra pld/drk is very nice for the corner-stun setup. definitely a better hate-monger on KB than pld/war also of course, but the mp consumption is overwhelming for just about any mp pool unless you're full-timing refresh equipment. that is, if you're trying to hold hate 100%.

[BRP]

PLD/DRK for Marid in Einherjar, now that kiting him has been pointed out as the best strat... what do you think? Especially if he is being manaburned to hell.

[Elipse]

Along with the people that say /WAR for dynamis and stuff...I have a question for Xarcabard, in particular.

Would /NIN be best for this zone? Hate is usually fickle on the lower mobs because we've been able to bring bards for our melee parties, and some of our PLDs tend to die somewhat easily on the heavier NMs (Gomory and Raum we seem to have trouble with holding, in particular).

Any suggestions there?

I'd say the main reason I like being PLD/WAR in Dynamis is that having Provoke + Flash gives you two "targeted" hate abilities on a short timer. Generally when I'm PLD in Dynamis my job is to try and get hate on as much of the pull as possible, so that mobs don't go after the sleepers if a sleep fails or they wake up. WAR sub lets you get hate on two mobs every 30 seconds or so, whereas NIN only gives you the one targeted ability over a similar time period. PLD/NIN might be more useful for the Xarcabard NMs, but I think the fights are still short enough that a PLD/WAR should be able to be kept alive pretty easily, and I'd rather have WAR sub for all the other pulls.

I had a similar sort of problem when I was trying to decide my sub for Einherjar the other day. I wanted /WAR for the initial mob pull, but /NIN is definitely better for the boss.

My LS goes in with 13-18 people to Xarc. Last night we had 12 people, 2 thfs, 1 war and myself the pld as the only "melee" class jobs. So all fights, NM's and normal mobs take longer than what a normal 30+ member LS would be going in with. So yet again we can say "Shit is situational" because Xarc in some situations is better as /nin as well.

[Therin]

I can't think of a single event that i would want to come as /drk, but im open to sugestions.

Basically, /DRK is a little faster hate than /RDM but not quite as safe (you lack Fast Cast, Stoneskin and Phalanx). Souleater and Last Resort are both very strong. You can use PLD/DRK on literally any mob that you'd be safe subbing WAR against. However, if said mob is actually capable of hitting you, chances are PLD/WAR is better (meaning PLD/DRK is best for flying Ouryu and JoL).