Chaos Helm+1/Wbody vs. Turban/Gloom Breastplate

[Linsivi]

With that said, is haste > hp then? Or is that only assuming averages occur?

[Quizno]

It depends on the weapon. If you are using:

Ridill
15% haste - 33 hits
19% haste - 36 hits

Mercurial Kris
15% haste - 43 hits
19% haste - 47 hits

Kraken Club
15% haste - 70 hits
19% haste - 77 hits

Obviously higher dmg per hit is going to be more of an issue for the ridill user than for the kc user.

For a BZ user haste is the end all be all. As you approach the absolute haste cap (93.3% according to the most recent tests) attack speed is magnified ALOT.

If you have 100% haste you would reach infinity hits per second. At 99% haste you would swing approximately 750 times per 30 seconds using BZ. At 93.3 this drops down to a reasonable 106 times per 30 seconds. Obviously haste means alot more to two handed weapons because Desperate blows and hasso both go beyond the equipment haste limit.

You'll have to do the calculations for yourself to see what set up is best for you.

It has also been tested that Catastrophe haste stays on the user even after changing weapons and that the haste is calculated toward the 25% haste cap. Normally drk/sam can only reach 22% equipment haste, but using catastrophe and then switching weapons allows one to reach 25% which is what you might have seen in the 100 scythe videos.

[S N K]

if SE ever allowed DRk to stack Souleater %s from gear...Oh lord the fun that would ensue...

[Meat]

I had a slightly different but related question about kraken zerg gear. Since Homam body was brought up as posibility, what if any factor would the tripple attack on body play? Related to ridill wars going 5zerk/5aggresor rather then DA to prevent the loss of tripple swings from ridill. I know the % on homam body is low but would the more tripples at the loss of more 4+hits be a factor since traits/gear with double/tripple check before weapons?

It's probably why Adaman Hauberk is more ideal... but it's only 2.5% chance of it proccing, so it shouldn't really intefere lol

Af2, Sh+1, ect> Adaberk

[Kilik]

so kraken/octave with drg sub, the 5% haste earring would be better than 25hp earring? And Haste Belt > 30hp belt?

[kareface]

I've played around with all the combos and the best I've found has been:

af1+1 head
Homam body
Homam legs
Homam feet
dusk gloves +1
BQ ring
BB ring
Cassie
Intruder
PCC
HP+30 shield
kraken
Speed belt
Gigant

I have the gloom, but the only time I go gloom/Turban is when the thing we are fighting has no eva. I've found that the SE bonus outweighs the haste you can get on the headpiece in most cases. Back to back kirins parsed me at 17k for one, and 22K for the other.

[Taint]

It depends on the weapon. If you are using:

Ridill
15% haste - 33 hits
19% haste - 36 hits

Mercurial Kris
15% haste - 43 hits
19% haste - 47 hits

Kraken Club
15% haste - 70 hits
19% haste - 77 hits

Obviously higher dmg per hit is going to be more of an issue for the ridill user than for the kc user.

For a BZ user haste is the end all be all. As you approach the absolute haste cap (93.3% according to the most recent tests) attack speed is magnified ALOT.

If you have 100% haste you would reach infinity hits per second. At 99% haste you would swing approximately 750 times per 30 seconds using BZ. At 93.3 this drops down to a reasonable 106 times per 30 seconds. Obviously haste means alot more to two handed weapons because Desperate blows and hasso both go beyond the equipment haste limit.

You'll have to do the calculations for yourself to see what set up is best for you.

It has also been tested that Catastrophe haste stays on the user even after changing weapons and that the haste is calculated toward the 25% haste cap. Normally drk/sam can only reach 22% equipment haste, but using catastrophe and then switching weapons allows one to reach 25% which is what you might have seen in the 100 scythe videos.

Cata goes towards the 70% cap no the 25% gear cap.

[dbdesigns]

so kraken/octave with drg sub, the 5% haste earring would be better than 25hp earring? And Haste Belt > 30hp belt?

20%+ Haste and 1800+HP seems to be golden from what ive seen and experienced.

[Quizno]

Cata goes towards the 70% cap no the 25% gear cap.

Well, first of all there is no 70% cap. It is actually a 68.3% cap which is a combination of the 25% equipment cap and the 43.3% "magic" cap which is a combination of spells and songs.

Because you will be capping the magic portion as a result of haste spell and Soul Voice double march, all that remains is the equipment cap.. 25%.


If in fact there was a "70%" cap (the magic cap was tested and shown to be 43.3% which corresponded to a frame by frame assessment based on number of swings of the 100 scythe video) then BZ instantly becomes the single best BW/SE option in the game.

BZ with a 70% cap along with Desperate blows 3 and hasso would make BZ capable of over 150 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

However, the 93.3% haste cap was confirmed independently.


In any case if it is able to cover both deficiencies in the equipment cap and the magic cap at the same time then that is just gravy =)

[Kilik]

The talk about haste vs hp is making me question some of the gear choices i went with for my octave... Bolded are the ones im not sure about

Main - Octave Club
Sub - Ritter Shield
Range - blank
Ammo - Fire Bomblet/Fenrir Stone
Head - Chaos Burgeonet (nq only due to lvl)
Neck - PCC
Ear 1 - Cassie Earring
Ear 2 - Intruder or Physical vs Wyvern Earring
Body - Scp.+1
Hands - Alky vs Dusk Gloves
Ring 1 - Bloodbead
Ring 2 - Bomb Queen
Back - Gigant
Waist - Haste Belt vs Forest Sash
Legs - Prince's Slops
Feet - Dusk Ledelsens

[Tulun]

So, Bahamut's Scythe, with Desperate blows + Hasso (assuming close or close to max haste from other sources) will beat a Kraken club for sure number of hits / second?

[Quizno]

Only if you have relic scythe, lol.

However, BZ will put up some impressive numbers if you have db3, hasso, and 19%+ haste gear.

Second only to KC actually.

[Beckwin]

using BZ (especially with scythe merits) would probably make acc a complete non-issue in almost every situation, especially compared to KC or kris/ridill.

[Rocl]

Only if you have relic scythe, lol.

However, BZ will put up some impressive numbers if you have db3, hasso, and 19%+ haste gear.

Second only to KC actually.

But you can't kill Bahamut without Kraken Club so you can't get Bahamut Zaghnal unless you already have Kraken Club rendering the Zaghnal useless! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Vistani]

You only need 15% haste in gear to make BZ better than KC with SV marches etc

[Quizno]

You only need 15% haste in gear to make BZ better than KC with SV marches etc

Well, that isn't really correct.

at 15% haste gear KC will produce 70 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

at 15% haste gear BZ will produce 43 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

At 19% it is 77 hits versus 56 hits.

At 22% (max for non /drg) it becomes 84 versus 75.

At capped haste (possible only buy first using catastrophe and then switching to BZ) you can get 106 hits in 30 seconds.

However, a KC drk can go /drg, hit 25% haste, and push out 92 hits.

The bigger issue will then become, should I be using attack food with BZ instead of HP food? Should I be getting SV 2x March and double minuet instead of accuracy songs? lol

Another interesting sidebar of the haste cap is the Rune Chopper (+9% haste).

Rune chopper allows the user to hit the 25% equipment haste cap very easily (using Swift belt, Walahra Turban, Homam Hn and Ft, and Blitz ring).

Now this will allow you to hit 51 times at 95% accuracy using an 88 dmg weapon! But wait, there is more!

Your leg slot is still open SE legs, AND your body can use Homam body, which is important.

Homam body will give you 2.5% triple attack... you can combine this with brutal earring and its 5% double attack. These numbers become significant when dealing with the large numbers of hits that the haste cap allows you to push out. Plus, because the rune chopper isn't a multihit weapon, the double and triple attack procs become more attractive.

You'll be able to make 3-4 more HITS in that 30 seconds, pushing your 88 dmg weapon with 256 skill up to 55 hits in 30 seconds and still have the souleater bonus.

Kinda funny how the haste cap suddenly makes 3 "useless" items (BZ, rune chopper, and blitz ring) very, very nice to have. Blitz ring is going to see a significant price jump if using BZ catches on...

[Chupunpupun]

You only need 15% haste in gear to make BZ better than KC with SV marches etc

Well, that isn't really correct.

at 15% haste gear KC will produce 70 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

at 15% haste gear BZ will produce 43 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

At 19% it is 77 hits versus 56 hits.

At 22% (max for non /drg) it becomes 84 versus 75.

At capped haste (possible only buy first using catastrophe and then switching to BZ) you can get 106 hits in 30 seconds.

However, a KC drk can go /drg, hit 25% haste, and push out 92 hits.

The bigger issue will then become, should I be using attack food with BZ instead of HP food? Should I be getting SV 2x March and double minuet instead of accuracy songs? lol

Another interesting sidebar of the haste cap is the Rune Chopper (+9% haste).

Rune chopper allows the user to hit the 25% equipment haste cap very easily (using Swift belt, Walahra Turban, Homam Hn and Ft, and Blitz ring).

Now this will allow you to hit 51 times at 95% accuracy using an 88 dmg weapon! But wait, there is more!

Your leg slot is still open SE legs, AND your body can use Homam body, which is important.

Homam body will give you 2.5% triple attack... you can combine this with brutal earring and its 5% double attack. These numbers become significant when dealing with the large numbers of hits that the haste cap allows you to push out. Plus, because the rune chopper isn't a multihit weapon, the double and triple attack procs become more attractive.

You'll be able to make 3-4 more HITS in that 30 seconds, pushing your 88 dmg weapon with 256 skill up to 55 hits in 30 seconds and still have the souleater bonus.

Kinda funny how the haste cap suddenly makes 3 "useless" items (BZ, rune chopper, and blitz ring) very, very nice to have. Blitz ring is going to see a significant price jump if using BZ catches on...

Blitz ring already jumped from 60k to 160 in cerberus in 1 sale awhile ago.

[Vistani]

You only need 15% haste in gear to make BZ better than KC with SV marches etc

Well, that isn't really correct.

at 15% haste gear KC will produce 70 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

at 15% haste gear BZ will produce 43 hits at 95% accuracy in 30 seconds.

At 19% it is 77 hits versus 56 hits.

At 22% (max for non /drg) it becomes 84 versus 75.

At capped haste (possible only buy first using catastrophe and then switching to BZ) you can get 106 hits in 30 seconds.

However, a KC drk can go /drg, hit 25% haste, and push out 92 hits.

The bigger issue will then become, should I be using attack food with BZ instead of HP food? Should I be getting SV 2x March and double minuet instead of accuracy songs? lol

Another interesting sidebar of the haste cap is the Rune Chopper (+9% haste).

Rune chopper allows the user to hit the 25% equipment haste cap very easily (using Swift belt, Walahra Turban, Homam Hn and Ft, and Blitz ring).

Now this will allow you to hit 51 times at 95% accuracy using an 88 dmg weapon! But wait, there is more!

Your leg slot is still open SE legs, AND your body can use Homam body, which is important.

Homam body will give you 2.5% triple attack... you can combine this with brutal earring and its 5% double attack. These numbers become significant when dealing with the large numbers of hits that the haste cap allows you to push out. Plus, because the rune chopper isn't a multihit weapon, the double and triple attack procs become more attractive.

You'll be able to make 3-4 more HITS in that 30 seconds, pushing your 88 dmg weapon with 256 skill up to 55 hits in 30 seconds and still have the souleater bonus.

Kinda funny how the haste cap suddenly makes 3 "useless" items (BZ, rune chopper, and blitz ring) very, very nice to have. Blitz ring is going to see a significant price jump if using BZ catches on...

What the hell are you talking about? 15% gear + 40% marches + 15% haste spell is 70%, more is useless.

[Quizno]

What the hell are you talking about? 15% gear + 40% marches + 15% haste spell is 70%, more is useless.

Well for starters the equipment haste cap is separate from the magic haste cap (25% and 43.3% respectively).

Marches give you 40% but the haste spell will only give you 3.3% more haste before you reach the magic/song haste cap.

Don't get me wrong... that 3.3% is HUGE when dealing with the absolute haste cap of 93.3.

However, you can't just add together equipment, songs, and spell.

Like I said, the caps are separate. and the "70%" cap that you are trying to push, is actually 68.3%, which makes a huge freaking difference in the number of hits you can make with a 2h weapon approaching the absolute limit.

[Khelek]

Question about the haste belt since we're on the subject...

wiki says this:
"This Haste effect does stack with both Haste and March, and does not count toward the 25% Gear-Haste cap."

so my question is; Does it count toward the spell-haste cap instead? If so, it's useless if you get 2h songs and haste casted on you, correct?