FFXIclopedia interview with Development Team at E3

[Octavious]

Honestly, Ebony Puddings aren't 'too' difficult, but they're not overwhelmingly easy to a first-timer. Nor do they produce good EXP unless you know how to handle yourself as BLM/RDM. It's one of those things thats mediocre on average, decent at best. I wouldn't say it's tough, but honestly it requires a bit more effort then a TP burn party.

As a tank, your probably (should be) busy trying to hold hate. If it's a WAR-Ridill-TP-Spam party, then it's pretty much 'keep utsusemi up, and don't get hit' then 'weaponskill when you see 100 TP and don't miss' so...honestly, whats tougher? >.>

[LD]

Neither, that's the entire point.

Meleeburns don't automatically get good numbers and neither do manaburns.
A BLM friend of mine once said he got around 30k/h in a mana once, the only reason I made a face at these words is because melee in general don't have a zone where they can solo for a decent amount. -_-

Also, even though I could argue about how standing in once spot for the entirety of a PT or moving just out of range so a gravity'd mob doesn't smack you isn't exactly effort intensive, I'm not walking down that road for two reasons:
1: People have already pointed out how a meleeburn takes effort.
2: I avoid Zam for a fucking reason, so I'm not going to engage in the same pointless conversations here, if I can help it.

[BRP]

SCs being weak shouldn't be your reason against SCs being made stronger. That doesn't make sense.

[LD]

No, it doesn't. Good thing thats not what I'm saying.

[ringthree]

What I don't understand is the reluctance of some to have an alternative way to make xp quickly. No one is suggesting that SE remove the 20xp/hour burn camps, they are suggesting making alternative camps for people that want to make good xp with skillchain setups. More options is never bad.

Read the interview, SE is suggesting this.

Already answered that 3-4 pages back. SE does not have a track record at all about changing XP camps much after they have been introduce except to make them easier to XP in. I believe SE was speaking about the new content and how to balance mobs with the new jobs, not that they were going to nerf your burn camps.

They made the mamool ja staging point camp tougher to xp in. They changed the jobs of the mamools and adjusted the respawn times for puks. Pre-patch, I got chain #400+ before we decided to stop.

Don't remember the old jobs because the adjustment was immediately after the expansion, but respawn for outdoor mobs is the same unless I missed something.

Ok, let me clarify, because they also changed the GC camp from bugards to wivres, not to mention Bibiki Bay. If they change something it is done shortly after it is introduced for whatever reason, and its not always for the bad, a la changing bugards to wivres making it easier to get 20k/hr.

If they didn't want us to TP burn they would have killed it over a year ago, but they dont mind it at all. Almost all of my jobs are "burn" jobs, so its not like I want them to nerf it either. But from the interview, it seems pretty plain that they are not planning on changing everything but rather adjusting things to deal with the new jobs.

Believe me I would be up in arms if they got rid of TP burn camps, but some of your are being completely paranoid about this. More options for decent XP for more people is not a bad thing.

[BRP]

No, it doesn't. Good thing thats not what I'm saying.

Just maybe I wasn't talking to you then?

[LD]

h-uh....maybe! :o

'Course, I was the last to speak of it, coulda helped if you quoted the person then.

C'est la Vie, ne?

[Septimus]

SCs being weak shouldn't be your reason against SCs being made stronger. That doesn't make sense.

Here are my points condensed.

People keep talking about how great skillchains used to be, but they were never good to begin with. Even if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, the vast majority of the people complaining about TPburns will still have crappy XP per hour because they wouldn't have the gear, merits, patience, and skill to support it. ("Look at that, chain 5, AFK for 20 minutes.)

Oh yeah, and if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, people would complain that they can't find BLMs for parties anymore.

[ringthree]

SCs being weak shouldn't be your reason against SCs being made stronger. That doesn't make sense.

Here are my points condensed.

People keep talking about how great skillchains used to be, but they were never good to begin with. Even if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, the vast majority of the people complaining about TPburns will still have crappy XP per hour because they wouldn't have the gear, merits, patience, and skill to support it. ("Look at that, chain 5, AFK for 20 minutes.)

Oh yeah, and if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, people would complain that they can't find BLMs for parties anymore.

No, not if burn parties were an equal alternative. Literally, your argument is "It doesn't work now, so it can never work." People have been suggesting on how to make it work differently, not trying to steal your TP burn parties.

Your comment about skillchains sucking was literally answered pages ago, in the first post introducing the idea. Non-TP burnable mobs, vulnerable to SC/MB with an XP bonus. No one ever suggested in this thread that these mobs should replace anything that already exists. No one wants to completely alter the dynamics of the game, just make special mobs that can be used in this situation.

[Septimus]

SCs being weak shouldn't be your reason against SCs being made stronger. That doesn't make sense.

Here are my points condensed.

People keep talking about how great skillchains used to be, but they were never good to begin with. Even if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, the vast majority of the people complaining about TPburns will still have crappy XP per hour because they wouldn't have the gear, merits, patience, and skill to support it. ("Look at that, chain 5, AFK for 20 minutes.)

Oh yeah, and if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, people would complain that they can't find BLMs for parties anymore.

No, not if burn parties were an equal alternative. Literally, your argument is "It doesn't work now, so it can never work." People have been suggesting on how to make it work differently, not trying to steal your TP burn parties.

Your comment about skillchains sucking was literally answered pages ago, in the first post introducing the idea. Non-TP burnable mobs, vulnerable to SC/MB with an XP bonus. No one ever suggested in this thread that these mobs should replace anything that already exists. No one wants to completely alter the dynamics of the game, just make special mobs that can be used in this situation.

And pages ago someone mentioned that those mobs do exist, yet no one ever merits on them.

[LD]

My name is 2 letters long, ffs. ¬¬

Any adjustment to SC is also an adjustment to melee. If SCs don't specifically and significantly improve magic or if they don't make burn somehow undesirable, burn will still come out on top (since SCs will either be more powerful or more pertinent, thus making a burn even stronger), making the entire process pointless.

I don't mind that though. Getting a stronger/more reliable SC to use on mobs would mean I could play around with my other WSs more often. It might even get 2H used more often in burns. :o

[ringthree]

SCs being weak shouldn't be your reason against SCs being made stronger. That doesn't make sense.

Here are my points condensed.

People keep talking about how great skillchains used to be, but they were never good to begin with. Even if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, the vast majority of the people complaining about TPburns will still have crappy XP per hour because they wouldn't have the gear, merits, patience, and skill to support it. ("Look at that, chain 5, AFK for 20 minutes.)

Oh yeah, and if they make "traditional" parties better by completely altering the dynamics of the game and making skillchains omgawesome for XP parties, people would complain that they can't find BLMs for parties anymore.

No, not if burn parties were an equal alternative. Literally, your argument is "It doesn't work now, so it can never work." People have been suggesting on how to make it work differently, not trying to steal your TP burn parties.

Your comment about skillchains sucking was literally answered pages ago, in the first post introducing the idea. Non-TP burnable mobs, vulnerable to SC/MB with an XP bonus. No one ever suggested in this thread that these mobs should replace anything that already exists. No one wants to completely alter the dynamics of the game, just make special mobs that can be used in this situation.

And pages ago someone mentioned that those mobs do exist, yet no one ever merits on them.

I was actually one of the people that said that, and the obvious problem is the xp imbalance, which is why the XP bonus would be necessary.

Look, this is the best situation for people that complain about gimp burn parties ruining their burn camps. Give those DRG, DRK, and other jobs an alternative place to go and your camps open up.

[layoneil]

And pages ago someone mentioned that those mobs do exist, yet no one ever merits on them.

they don't exist, there's a basis to those types of mobs but the existing ones don't give the required base 300-400 XP on kill with no chain.

Any adjustment to SC is also an adjustment to melee. If SCs don't specifically and significantly improve magic or if they don't make burn somehow undesirable, burn will still come out on top (since SCs will either be more powerful or more pertinent, thus making a burn even stronger), making the entire process pointless.

just making the adjustment to MB would work.

and regardless, even without MBs, i would like to see melees SC again. get 100 TP and WS being the optimal way to XP is still off.

give an overkill XP bonus for damage done by SC effect or MB.

[FinalJustice]

And pages ago someone mentioned that those mobs do exist, yet no one ever merits on them.

Ppl don't merit on Qutrib because at the end of the day its far less exp then a really good TP burn party. Thats why some sort of MBing exp bonus "could" make it even... but since there isn't, its an imbalance.

At the end of the day such a bonus wouldn't even take away form a tp burn... TP burners who want to spam WS' wouldn't even be effected by such a thing... It would simply give the parties that go with a traditional setup exp bonuses to keep up with exp per hr... I don't see how anyone can argue against this...

And before anyone says anything, my jobs i merit on, ARE TP burn jobs. I just don't see why ppl who don't have those jobs lvld cant get the same exp elsewhere, with a simple bonus to magic bursting. Something that neither Manaburn or Melee burn would benefit from. Melee cant have MBing without mages, and mages cant have Magic bursting without melee....

[LD]

hmmm....a 2x bonus on MB might make a traditional PT better than either a mana or melee burn, but it still creates the problem of one job being required above all others. Only one job really takes advantage of a Magic Burst. Anything less than such a gigantic bonus would just keep the situation as it is. If you improve SC damage to compensate, doubling SC and MB damage, meleeburn and traditional are fine, but you've just made manaburn greatly inferior.

DRK & DRG are not inherently gimp jobs, a gimp PT can just as easily have MNKs, Ridill WARs, and dual BRDs.

[FinalJustice]

well yea blms.. then again a smn probbaly could help bring about such MB exp bonus XD

But wouldnt a traditional party setup have atleast one blm?

Im also not sure about a 2x exp bonus.. thats like a 100% exp bonus ring lol. What about a exp bonus thats comes out to about 50% increase, or just work the math so that it comes out as "close" to even as possible in a optimal party.

OR they could just have enemy like Qutrub who have a LOT of HP just give more exp per kill or somthing.

[BRP]

hmmm....a 2x bonus on MB might make a traditional PT better than either a mana or melee burn,

This would be broken in the end-game, not exp.

give an overkill XP bonus for damage done by SC effect or MB.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a bit against this. I might be agreeing with Sept here, but I don't think exp should be handed out.

I feel SCs and MBs should be fixed in a manner where a player can choose to use them or not depending on their set up. The ideal fix would be buffing SC and MBs up enough that most of the time, a party would, even without a BLM. You wouldn't do much for BLM or any other melee for that matter because it's not impossible for a TP burn to save TP for 10 seconds and make a ghetto SC. The problem with SC+MB is at it's core.

-Weapon Skills outside Multi-Hit need to be buffed up. [I'd suggest a 1 or .5 TP modifier bonus after a certain level when not dual wielding]. (This might actually create a market for Martial weapons).

-Black Mage/nuker Endurance. [MP reward from MBing. Some people say damage -> MP, but I say 50-75% off cost based on system similar to Conserve MP. In any case, this would do a lot for SMN as a DD/support].

-Skillchains need to be worth making alone. All skillchains, not just Distortion and Light. [Magic Accuracy of the SC boosted to a great degree, like I said before: suffering the same resist rate as a BLM of equal level casting a nuke of the same element].

[ringthree]

hmmm....a 2x bonus on MB might make a traditional PT better than either a mana or melee burn, but it still creates the problem of one job being required above all others. Only one job really takes advantage of a Magic Burst. Anything less than such a gigantic bonus would just keep the situation as it is. If you improve SC damage to compensate, doubling SC and MB damage, meleeburn and traditional are fine, but you've just made manaburn greatly inferior.

DRK & DRG are not inherently gimp jobs, a gimp PT can just as easily have MNKs, Ridill WARs, and dual BRDs.

To prevent abuse, raising the XP cap of these mobs would be better than additional XP from doing a MB.

(As a side note, I checked and I have been using the term "XP bonus" which may have been confused with people getting a XP bonus from MBing any mob, which I am not, and I do think that would be a bad idea. I am suggesting that this kind of mob have an XP bonus like Yovra's do, or better yet, a higher XP cap. So I will be referring to it as a higher XP cap from now on.)

[Kyreth]

Skillchains have never been good in XP parties. Two melees waiting on each other to get TP and for the BLM to have MP and for the tank to have hate using crappy weapon skills to make a chain so that the BLM can do a fraction more damage drags XP per hour down. The good old days were not so good, 5k per hour was what great parties made, and gimps abounded. (They still do.) People started doing BLM and MNK parties because they are more efficient than "traditional" parties could ever hope to be.

Instead, we now have monomanical PT's that rack up the exp in the most painful, simplistic manner imaginable, a method that seems to breed stupidity and yet more gimps than before.

This may sound funny, but I believe the best exp should go to the PT that works together, and the method in the combat system for people to work together is SC + MB. Not Haste x4, Refresh x2, Dia, insert random 4 WS'es here, or 5 AM's/Tier IV/Tier III spells simultaneously cast in a manner so simple, RMT's can do it with brilliance.

So as was stated above, take the current status quo and shove it. Style needs to matter. Teamwork needs to matter. When it stopped mattering, the playerbase began to rot at the top and it's working it's way down through every PL'ed gimp squad being shoved through Valkrum. For the good of the game, that needs to stop. If that makes me a hidebound traditionalist, I guess my skill in Leatherworking just went up by 0.3.

Raw damage PT's "burns" should yield good experience through speed. Traditional PT's should yield equally good experience through "style bonuses". You SC? Bonuses. You MB? More bonuses. If traditonal = 5K and burn = 20K, then traditional style kill with SC + MB should = 20K and we've got a combat system that needs revolution. SC's should do more than simple damage and a brief elemental weakness, but also enhance the PT using them/debuff the target significantly. In other words, the combat system needs to be updated to match the current state of the game. Would you do a Transfixion SC if it Curagaed the PT? Compression if it sucked MP out of the mob and recharged the PT? Detonation silenced the mob? Reverberation stunned it? Scisson Defense Downed the monster? You get the idea.

Everything here has been pointing to failures in the current combat system leading to the most "efficient" method being abandoning that system entirely. Yeah, it's the best choice right now. That doesn't mean it's not inherently wrong even though it works best. Fixing the system and updating it should be the solution.

[LD]

A SMN's best damage can't be MB'd, and unlike BLM, they can buff (pretty well, in fact.)

A 'Traditional' PT would have a BLM, in the sense that it would be like a PT made 3 years ago.
A 'Balanced' PT, however, would have a job that fit the required spot, and that's not necessarily a BLM. This is what a Balanced PT is: Tank, Healer, Support(x2), DDx(2)3.

I meant a 2x damage bonus, and if you also double SC, it would be practically the same in HNM. The only difference is BLM heavy groups WOULD be broken, but they would still suffer the hate problem (in some cases making the bonus irrelevant), and SMNs can only MB Ruinous Omen & pals. Doubling that would only bring it back on par with their physicals.

'Balanced' PTs are no less painful, simplistic, or tedious than anything else in this game. Each of the 3 can be engaging, entertaining, and challenging depending only on who you are and who you are with. It is not superior intellectually, you have just convinced yourself of that.