LBC Strategy recap

[Pasquale]

Ok GUys im going crazy... this 3th time we die on lbc first time... done with 2 PLD/NIN taking.. took lbc to 68% and we died... than week after 1 NIN and 1 MNK hitting and we died about 70%... than week after 2 MNK/NIN and we died again this time at 65%.......... i dont know what do...and always we die cuz tank lose hate healers get hate they die and we die....seems like nothing work on me

[Francisco II]

I've found Counterstance to be immensely useful on Salvage bosses, but be warned:

1) Critical hits can land for upwards of 750 damage each.

2) Your MNK will get destroyed if he has poor accuracy or now Counter merits.

3) Don't rely solely on Counterstance for your damage mitigation. You should keep Shadows up as much as possible.

[Kaylia]

Ok GUys im going crazy... this 3th time we die on lbc first time... done with 2 PLD/NIN taking.. took lbc to 68% and we died... than week after 1 NIN and 1 MNK hitting and we died about 70%... than week after 2 MNK/NIN and we died again this time at 65%.......... i dont know what do...and always we die cuz tank lose hate healers get hate they die and we die....seems like nothing work on me

Was said about 15times in the thread

#1 Never more than 2 people on it that give tp, at least, not until you figure a way to win efficiently. If you have 2pld/nin, uses rng and blm as damage dealer. 2mnk work, mnk+nin work.
#2 Position yourself on the side to not get hit by homing missile, and mage need to be extremly fast on erase if you get bound. When chariot turn to face yourself, run asap on the side.
#3 Have at least a stunner who stun every time LBC turn, to give tank additional times.
#4 Elegy is a gift of god, subtle blow rolls help if you have corsair, smn/blu can buff tank. 2 tank+4 healer/buffer

With 2/nin tanking, healer should not pull hate.

[Francisco II]

Ok GUys im going crazy... this 3th time we die on lbc first time... done with 2 PLD/NIN taking.. took lbc to 68% and we died... than week after 1 NIN and 1 MNK hitting and we died about 70%... than week after 2 MNK/NIN and we died again this time at 65%.......... i dont know what do...and always we die cuz tank lose hate healers get hate they die and we die....seems like nothing work on me

Take less damage.

If you have four people on the boss, and it uses Inertia Stream for say 250 damage; that's 1000 HP you need to recover... That's a lot of Enmity generated, and a lot of MP used. If you want a use for PLD, have them Cure IV MNKs and Flash for Shadows - from a distance. That way if hate gets reset from HM, the PLD can hold hate while the MNKs get it back.

Is Homing Missile getting off a lot? This is avoidable.

How does your chat log tend to look? Here are a few examples of what you should be seeing.

Long-Bowed Chariot readies Inertia Stream.
Monk starts casting Utsusemi: Ichi on Monk.
Whitemage starts casting Erase on Monk.
Long-Bowed Chariot uses Inertia Stream.
Monk's copy image wears off.
Monk takes 250 points of damage.
Monk casts Utsusemi: Ichi.
Monk gains the effect of Copy Image.
Whitemage casts Erase.
Monk is no longer bound.

Long-Bowed Chariot readies Discharge.
Monk starts casting Utsusemi: Ichi on Monk.
Whitemage starts casting Paralyna on Monk.
Long-Bowed Chariot uses Discharge.
Monk's copy image wears off.
Monk takes 250 points of damage.
Monk casts Utsusemi: Ichi.
Monk gains the effect of Copy Image.
Whitemage casts Paralyna.
Monk is no longer paralyzed.

Your chat log should not be peppered with "Monk is paralyzed" as attack rounds get wasted and Utsusemi casts fail. Even more importantly, the tanks should NEVER, EVER be left bound for more than a second, as it sets you up for Homing Missile.

Start casting Utsusemi: Ichi the instant it readies an AoE TP move. The cast will finish just as your current shadows disappear from the AoE. Save Utsusemi: Ni for regular melee hits, as it's a much faster cast and easier to get back up.

[Pasquale]

@1 Never used more than 2 ppl giving tp first time 2 PLD/NIN 2nd NIN/WAR MNK/NIN 3th MNK/NINx2
@2 never got an Homing missile we know how to move ( at least that lol)
@3 ok we will also stun but the problem again isnt an Hm
@4 we dovt have a COR and yes we have a BRD using elegy

and @5 the problem all the 3 times with MNK/NIN tank PLD/NIN or NIN/WAR healer always get hate around 70% even with a PLD/NIN....

[aurik]

@1 Never used more than 2 ppl giving tp first time 2 PLD/NIN 2nd NIN/WAR MNK/NIN 3th MNK/NINx2
@2 never got an Homing missile we know how to move ( at least that lol)
@3 ok we will also stun but the problem again isnt an Hm
@4 we dovt have a COR and yes we have a BRD using elegy

and @5 the problem all the 3 times with MNK/NIN tank PLD/NIN or NIN/WAR healer always get hate around 70% even with a PLD/NIN....

Try sucking less.

[Pasquale]

yes lol Aurik tell me how and i will suck less > >

[Lordwafik]

@1 Never used more than 2 ppl giving tp first time 2 PLD/NIN 2nd NIN/WAR MNK/NIN 3th MNK/NINx2
@2 never got an Homing missile we know how to move ( at least that lol)
@3 ok we will also stun but the problem again isnt an Hm
@4 we dovt have a COR and yes we have a BRD using elegy

and @5 the problem all the 3 times with MNK/NIN tank PLD/NIN or NIN/WAR healer always get hate around 70% even with a PLD/NIN....

@6 you are trying to force a land HNM holding strat onto Salvage bosses, which doesn't work. Nothing like 2 pld/nin and a nin/war yumyum, tank overload hi.

[Pasquale]

But the problem isnt that the 1 tanking die.. no anything that i use MNK NIN or PLD they never die... they just lose hate and healer die... do i dont care i could use anything as tank but need something that sure dont lose hate.. for that i want ask but im scared of that lol... PLD/WAR ?

[Nikko]

Make a video of your fight and post it on youtube.

[Francisco II]

If your healers are pulling hate, it's either...

a) Your damage dealers / tanks aren't doing enough damage.

b) Your damage dealers / tanks are taking too much damage.

c) Your WHMs are over-curing, which is a bi-product of (b).

d) A combination of the three.

Is your WHM spamming Curaga II and Cure IV? If so, he's retarded.

Are BLMs, RDMs, BRDs, PLDs... ANYONE with Cure III support healing? If they're not, they're retarded.

Are your tanks getting the shit torn out of them because Paralyze is killing their Utsusemi recasts? If so, your mages need to get their heads out of their ass.

Does your group land Slow, Elegy and Paralyze on the Chariot? If they don't, fix it so that they do, because otherwise, it's retarded.

Hate is a simple concept... DD Tanks get hate by causing damage. They lose hate by taking damage. The enmity issues are compounded by the fact that healers gain hate by curing... mitigate your damage better, and tanks will not only lose less hate, but healers will gain less enmity by needing to cure less.

[divisortheory]

But the problem isnt that the 1 tanking die.. no anything that i use MNK NIN or PLD they never die... they just lose hate and healer die... do i dont care i could use anything as tank but need something that sure dont lose hate.. for that i want ask but im scared of that lol... PLD/WAR ?

Then people in your group are playing their jobs incorrectly. PLD/WAR is a joke, I don't understand how you can possibly think it would lose hate slower than a PLD/NIN.

Please just think about this situation for a few minutes, it's not rocket science. It's so tiring seeing posts on this forum asking basic questions about how to do something when all you have to do is understand the basic mechanics of the game.

a) Mages are getting too much hate.
b) What causes mages to get hate?
c) Curing often and for lots of HP
d) Need to cure less frequently and use smaller cures
e) But tanks take too much damage and then they'll die.
f) Tanks need to take less damage.
g) Tanks need to successfully absorb hits with blink more often.
h) But shadows are always down
i) Make sure Elegy, Slow II, and Paralyze II are on 100% of the time.


If you say you're doing everything from a-i every single time and people are still losing hate, then I have to just say that either I don't believe you, or your tanks have full -Enmity merits and your mages have full +Enmity merits. Alternatively, you can look at ways to increase your tanks' hate. Again, not rocket science, people are supposed to understand these concepts by about level 30.

a) Tanks aren't generating enough hate.
b) Tanks need to generate more hate.
c) Do more damage to the mob
c.1) Eat stronger DD food
c.2) Use different songs from BRD to increase damage.
d) Tanks need to use more abilities at their disposal to generate hate.
d.1) Flash
d.2) Curing self and other people in the alliance
d.2) Counterstance
d.3) Ninjutsu

I hate to mention any of the things immediately above, because if the problem is any of these things it means your tanks just don't understand how to tank, and of course you can't win if your tanks don't know what they're doing.

[Pasquale]

a) idk if damage is enough or not i have a MNK/niN with blackbelt and other good stuff hitting for 36 dmg and suran fists do about 300-500 dmg and other MNK has good gears up too
b) my tank just get dmg from inertia /discharge and double attacks
c) healers always got hate cuz only a Cure IV not spammed and yes we have 2 whm+ 2 rdm healers
d) yes all are debuffyng slow paralyze and other stuffs

[divisortheory]

a) idk if damage is enough or not i have a MNK/niN with blackbelt and other good stuff hitting for 36 dmg and suran fists do about 300-500 dmg and other MNK has good gears up too
b) my tank just get dmg from inertia /discharge and double attacks
c) healers always got hate cuz only a Cure IV not spammed and yes we have 2 whm+ 2 rdm healers
d) yes all are debuffyng slow paralyze and other stuffs

Don't you have two tanks? Aren't they both sharing the tanking duties? 36 dmg sounds like crap, maybe they need to eat better food and get better songs. (c.1, c.2). Use drinks from earlier in the zone to increase their power. Use Hundred Fists at the start to build more hate. Use counterstance right when it's up for the hate spike, then cancel it.

If all else fails, just try to weaken it. I could understand if you were having trouble with lots of Homing Missiles, but you said 0 Homing Missiles are getting off, so I really don't understand how you could possibly not be generating enough hate unless they're just flagrantly doing something wrong, in which case I would think you would notice.

[Pasquale]

oh yes... next time should try to let them Hundred fist as start also...the BRD most of times fail into debuff LBC cuz most of times elegy / requiem doesnt do effect and maybe cuz he get half equip when he get on last floor.... should let him be full i think.. using hundred fists at start how long the MNKs will take hate without losing it?

[Kaylia]

@1 Never used more than 2 ppl giving tp first time 2 PLD/NIN 2nd NIN/WAR MNK/NIN 3th MNK/NINx2
@2 never got an Homing missile we know how to move ( at least that lol)
@3 ok we will also stun but the problem again isnt an Hm
@4 we dovt have a COR and yes we have a BRD using elegy

and @5 the problem all the 3 times with MNK/NIN tank PLD/NIN or NIN/WAR healer always get hate around 70% even with a PLD/NIN....

Have them engage with hundred fist...I don't know. Healer shouldnt be pulling hate if there is only 2 melee.
It's hard to believe you did everything above, and healer pulled hate, unless WHM was spamming flash + cure 4

[divisortheory]

oh yes... next time should try to let them Hundred fist as start also...the BRD most of times fail into debuff LBC cuz most of times elegy / requiem doesnt do effect and maybe cuz he get half equip when he get on last floor.... should let him be full i think..

Everyone in the zone should be full equip, it doesn't take long to max out equip in Bhaflau.

using hundred fists at start how long the MNKs will take hate without losing it?

We use Hundred Fists at the end, but we still never lose hate along the way. So I don't really know. Are they eating meat or sushi? Are they using Destroyers, Hades Sainti, or something else? Requiem will never stick, don't even bother trying.

[Pasquale]

Both MNk are using sushi and Destroyers as weapon... about hte equips got full only MNK MNK RDM other ppl where half/naked

[Kaylia]

oh yes... next time should try to let them Hundred fist as start also...the BRD most of times fail into debuff LBC cuz most of times elegy / requiem doesnt do effect and maybe cuz he get half equip when he get on last floor.... should let him be full i think.. using hundred fists at start how long the MNKs will take hate without losing it?

If you are doing bhaflau mega, gears everyone full on first floor. No reason not to spend an additional 4min to clears every wamouracampa once you get magic/ja cell from wamoura. I'm not sure what path you are talking, but it's so easy to gear everyone there.

#1 Run to wamoura room, kill as many bombs as needed otw. Path back and get armor for everyone
#2 Run East and clear 1 scorpion room to get important stats for everyone (str/vit/agi/dex on tank, int/mnd on rdm, int on blm, chr on brd). They also drop hp cell, so everyone should have them. If you got jewish bomb on first floor, hit the central troll/pudding room to get the chip you need. In the rare case many hp cells dropped and 0 mp on first floor, you might prefer to take East path and farm a few mp, but wamoura blows.
#3 skip unless you need something important from top/bottom central room
#4 Try to nerf it killing all 10 gears before they warp, get good medecine (15-20min).
#5 Give yourself 20-25 min first time you kill, but it can be done in 10-15 with almost any setup, and faster with optimal setup..

[Sarial]

Not a question you can answer, but HF would be a significant amount of hate.

To me it sounds like the group needs to try the trick mentioned earlier, which involves mages also standing in range of HM to have hate wiped too.

Are your mages getting hate just after HM?