Absolute Virtue Theory

[Kaylia]

Add CFH zerg right afer it uses chainspell manafont. Drop it down as low as you can with heavy DD group

[Demosthenes11]

Things I think need to be tested(just tested, not going for the win) :

-Killing tons of Aerns near AV. (maybe a good idea to note what jobs)
-Killing tons of everything near AV. (maybe a good idea to note what monsters)
-Having Torque + Weapon equiped. WS may be required. (The more people with different combos the better, as it might not use the 2hr to prove or disprove. BLM(Prudence) and RDM(Justice) would be nice to test)

These would be pretty easy to test in my opinion. If these get proven wrong, we would know more than we did before and dispel some of the more likely theories. From there crazier ones can be tested. Most importantly: PICTURES DAMN IT.

The first 2 most definitely need to be tested, as they are leads SE has given us directly. It also makes sense in regards to what you said earlier with the wyverns locking AV. At first, killing sea mobs around AV worked. Then SE saw this, and didn't want wyverns to be used, so they ninja nerfed it. There might have been a small bug period here (when AV was being half-locked etc), and then they worked out the bugs. I really don't think weapons/gorgets/torques/obis have anything to do with AV at all, but I guess if people want to try that they can.

I think we can all acknowledge, however, that SE has ninja fixed AV (about September of last year). This should be the question asked at fan festivals, not the secrets of AV.

"Why was AV changed when people were finally able to kill him?"

[Suiram]

I should point out that I'm the one who determined that -ga target reduction aspect of the magic damage formula and posted on wiki, and that I can only vouch for its accuracy as it relates to player casters vs. non-player targets. It's possible that non-player casters vs. player targets follows an entirely different rule, although it does seem that the meteor damage against 10 or more players is roughly about 40% of what the guy got hit for solo.

Also, since there was confusion on this point, 0.9 - 0.05T is just shorthand for writing that it goes .8 > .75 > .7 > ... > .45 > .4.

[Kaylia]

If there is a difference between monsters and players, it's barely noticeable. I always estimated Kirin's stonega to cap around 40% back when we were experiencing with zerg strats, and 10 people sound about right (when the whole alliance was getting hit, damage werent going down more than when melee were getting hit).

I would be surprised if there is a difference in this case between monsters and players.

[Kris]

Hmmm, worth a shot imo, maybe killing the yovra while he is up means they won't repop while he's still alive. Pretty easy to test, just hold with lv. 1 job and have other people go burn down the yovra and see if they repop. I really don't think you'd have to take them all down at once....just not something I would see SE doing.

[Wulfgang]

I concur with the CFH plan if anything; can't really consider it a waste since 100% of AV's despawn now. Keep track of who is doing what and bring another friendly LS up there; 1 to clear all of sea, 1 to hold AV and watch SP usage. SE introduced Apocalyptic Beast / Antaeus / etc in the same expansion as AV, and each of them requires monsters in the surrounding area be killed to weaken them. Id send a few parties out to map the location of every BLM / RDM / WHM Aern in the area at least and keep them dead.

[ninjafox]

Are there any items from sea/ tavnazia, that we have found that seemingly have no use? Maybe there's something like mistmelt or something iono. (Don't eat me I don't really read much about AV stuff)

[Spekkio]

I concur with the CFH plan if anything; can't really consider it a waste since 100% of AV's despawn now. Keep track of who is doing what and bring another friendly LS up there; 1 to clear all of sea, 1 to hold AV and watch SP usage. SE introduced Apocalyptic Beast / Antaeus / etc in the same expansion as AV, and each of them requires monsters in the surrounding area be killed to weaken them. Id send a few parties out to map the location of every BLM / RDM / WHM Aern in the area at least and keep them dead.

i think you actually make a compelling point there. SE has a history of using nearly identical logic for all mobs introduced at the same time. examine the 5, 21 hr beastman pops outside of their respective homes (resentment cape, intruder earring, tortoise shield, etc.) as well as shikigami. they all function nearly identically. this is the case in so many of their updates, it's encouraging evidence to give it a go. i wouldn't stake a wooden nickel on it, by any means, but it's surely worth having a go at.

Are there any items from sea/ tavnazia, that we have found that seemingly have no use? Maybe there's something like mistmelt or something iono. (Don't eat me I don't really read much about AV stuff)

while we're on the topic of useless crap, uggalepih necklace anyone? ^^

[Sagacious Sundi]

Aren't there 6 of those NMs? Or does the Sahagin not count since it's drop is Rare and the others have Rare/Ex. (I think) drops?
But then again, they tend to share parallel stuff with beastmen, like how there's the six NMs in their homes (and Alky and the 4 Bailey Demon NMs), Bakgodek:Za'Dha:Tzee Xicu, pre-ToA beastmen have similar BCNMs (all level 60, have 4 NMs if they come in 4 jobs, 6 NMs if they come in 7), Ja Ja:Gurf:Medusa, each ToA beastman has 4 Besieged-related NMs in their stronghold, etc.

Also, don't forgot that Al'Taieu is a regular area, unlike the Dynamis areas mentioned (plus they were added in different updates iirc). But then again, Lumorians are weird in behaviour and what not...

[Credos]

I concur with the CFH plan if anything; can't really consider it a waste since 100% of AV's despawn now. Keep track of who is doing what and bring another friendly LS up there; 1 to clear all of sea, 1 to hold AV and watch SP usage. SE introduced Apocalyptic Beast / Antaeus / etc in the same expansion as AV, and each of them requires monsters in the surrounding area be killed to weaken them. Id send a few parties out to map the location of every BLM / RDM / WHM Aern in the area at least and keep them dead.

i think you actually make a compelling point there. SE has a history of using nearly identical logic for all mobs introduced at the same time. examine the 5, 21 hr beastman pops outside of their respective homes (resentment cape, intruder earring, tortoise shield, etc.) as well as shikigami. they all function nearly identically. this is the case in so many of their updates, it's encouraging evidence to give it a go. i wouldn't stake a wooden nickel on it, by any means, but it's surely worth having a go at.

Are there any items from sea/ tavnazia, that we have found that seemingly have no use? Maybe there's something like mistmelt or something iono. (Don't eat me I don't really read much about AV stuff)

while we're on the topic of useless crap, uggalepih necklace anyone? ^^

Obviously swapping dats for all characters to Tonberrys and equipping Odorus Knives +1 is the way to go. Maybe you could get Graviton to help.

[Spekkio]

Aren't there 6 of those NMs? Or does the Sahagin not count since it's drop is Rare and the others have Rare/Ex. (I think) drops?

slightly different, but touche. i concede i failed to count it, and it does follow the pattern, escorts and all.

another example is rose garden/voluptuous vilma, colorful/defoliate leshy, noble mold, and any others i missed mentioning. iirc, they all came in the same patch.

[BRP]

Please be sure to test one theory at a time...

[Spekkio]

why 1 at a time? they can try them all at once and if something works, do a binary search on the attempted methods! then they can do it in O(log(n)) lost xp instead of O(n)! *goes back to his corner*

[bamiman]

little tidbit of info incase people havent noticed yet to try...

3 aerns spawn by JoL pop ???...

THEY ARE THE ONLY AERNS THAT DONT RESPAWN SAME JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they are paired in teams of two... as follows...

blm/rdm
thf/mnk
nin/war

they alternate jobs everytime you kill them.

Now i am mostly sure this is how you stop his instacast meteor... If he does instacast meteor, then kill the rdm/blm mob. I'm pretty darn certain this will cancel out the meteor (ex. if blm is up and he does it then try to keep the rdm up as opposed to the blm aern).

We are currently trying to attempt this, but our LS doesnt have the number of blm's to keep the wynavs down.




If this has been already put out there i do appologize ahead of time... there is only so much one can read on AV via BG (most of it is crap that people just post to get their count up)...

[Rocl]

We have 3 JoL planned this week and we plan to test out basically everything listed in this thread. I hope ONE of them works.

blargh did they all fail or what

[Demosthenes11]

little tidbit of info incase people havent noticed yet to try...

3 aerns spawn by JoL pop ???...

THEY ARE THE ONLY AERNS THAT DONT RESPAWN SAME JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they are paired in teams of two... as follows...

blm/rdm
thf/mnk
nin/war

they alternate jobs everytime you kill them.

Now i am mostly sure this is how you stop his instacast meteor... If he does instacast meteor, then kill the rdm/blm mob. I'm pretty darn certain this will cancel out the meteor (ex. if blm is up and he does it then try to keep the rdm up as opposed to the blm aern).

We are currently trying to attempt this, but our LS doesnt have the number of blm's to keep the wynavs down.




If this has been already put out there i do appologize ahead of time... there is only so much one can read on AV via BG (most of it is crap that people just post to get their count up)...

benediction

[Izzy]

We have 3 JoL planned this week and we plan to test out basically everything listed in this thread. I hope ONE of them works.

blargh did they all fail or what

Yes ahhaha. The only thing we "noticed" is that when those 3 aerns were dead, AV SEEMED weaker, but we were probley just imagining things. We'd definitely need other LS's to try the same. The only 2hr's he used were Invincible, Meiko Shisui, and Astral Flow (not counting Call Wyvern). Figured maybe those 3 aerns represented what 2hr's he could/couldn't do, but it was REALLY hard to test shit out with only 20 people.

[Rocl]

We have 3 JoL planned this week and we plan to test out basically everything listed in this thread. I hope ONE of them works.

blargh did they all fail or what

Yes ahhaha. The only thing we "noticed" is that when those 3 aerns were dead, AV SEEMED weaker, but we were probley just imagining things. We'd definitely need other LS's to try the same. The only 2hr's he used were Invincible, Meiko Shisui, and Astral Flow (not counting Call Wyvern). Figured maybe those 3 aerns represented what 2hr's he could/couldn't do, but it was REALLY hard to test shit out with only 20 people.

ah well at least that's somewhat encouraging
Did you sucessfully lock the regen? (I know it's not the biggest issue at hand, but if it can be done reliably, it helps >_>)
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I want to have another go at AV myself

[Izzy]

We have 3 JoL planned this week and we plan to test out basically everything listed in this thread. I hope ONE of them works.

blargh did they all fail or what

Yes ahhaha. The only thing we "noticed" is that when those 3 aerns were dead, AV SEEMED weaker, but we were probley just imagining things. We'd definitely need other LS's to try the same. The only 2hr's he used were Invincible, Meiko Shisui, and Astral Flow (not counting Call Wyvern). Figured maybe those 3 aerns represented what 2hr's he could/couldn't do, but it was REALLY hard to test shit out with only 20 people.

ah well at least that's somewhat encouraging
Did you sucessfully lock the regen? (I know it's not the biggest issue at hand, but if it can be done reliably, it helps >_>)
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I want to have another go at AV myself

No, it seems that it was TP that might have been locked since the only time it actually did a TP move was during the Meiku Shisui. But, once again, only 20 people so not like we could do too much. We held the wyverns for a bit but eventually they killed off the tanks and went back to the AV holding party. Our tanks had no problem tanking it until the wynavs came back haha.

[Moridox]

One thing I seemed to notice is that with his Wynavs if you kill them all AV seems to resummon all 3 isntantly to a few minutes. When we killed a single Wynav he didn't resummon it for 15-20min (estimate). My thought is to perhaps kill off two of the Wynav then can more easily hold one w/ either Bind, Shadowbind, Tanking. Once a new Wynav is summoned on the longer timer to bring AV to 2 Wynav kill the original off and hold the new one. Repeat this process so that only 1 Wynav is being contained while the majority of the group focues on AV tactics. One thought I've wondered about is maybe holding the Wynav in 1 alive, 2 dead would impact AV's behavior in any way, but that's pure speculation on its behavior.