Absolute Virtue Theory

[Nighteagle]

Well, according to SE when they had an interview at Fanfest last year in September, thats when they leaked some info about AV. Such as using element attacks (i.e. fire based spells on firesday to lower regen) and killing more phaubo on JoL to lower the rest. And according to there interview with someone (i think Pikko from alla) they said they also gave hins about other stuff or AV. If you look at what they said for the element attacks, they never said just spells, they only used that as an example. Each Weapon has an elemental WS aligned with it. (Staff = Rock Crusher / Earth Crusher, Dagger = Gust Slash / Cyclone, Sword = Burning Blade / Red Lotus Blade, etc etc) Why not try using a WS corresponding to the day to maybe lock the 2hours? Using Rock Crusher on Earthsday WITH Hope Staff locks Manafont + Astral Flow. Lock those 2 2hours and you get rid of the big AoE aside from aeroga. Also, the only job out of the original 15 that doesnt get a weapon i believe is NIN. Which would make sense since you cant lock NIN 2hour. AV dont use Mijin Gakure, the wyverns do. Maybe you have to use the WS's on JoL + AV. Maybe just JoL. Maybe just AV. I have no idea if this strat has been used before, but im just throwing it out there. Hell, maybe make a SC according to the day like Scission during Earthsday with the Jailer weapons. I dont know anymore.... SE GIVE US CONCRETE INFO!!!

[Suiram]

Dunno how you can be so sure AV would land his spell every time. >_> Maybe he just have an insane amount of m.atk

In agreement here, I've never set out to see what AV's INT actually is but it wouldn't be that hard. I'm going to guess it's not actually 'insanely high' just based by the way the built mobs in CoP. Zilart HNM typically were super-high level, super high attributes (STR, VIT, INT etc) and other primitive stats (Attack, Defense, Elemental Resistance levels, etc). CoP HNM--particularly in sea--typically were lower level by comparison, reasonable attributes but with extra bonuses/penalties like direct damage reduction or high Magic Attack Bonus, etc.

Wind resist may very well work fine for AV's spells, but the benefit to direct damage-mitigation build is that it will also work just as well for meteor, for which wind resist won't do jack. Never played with AV with an aegis PLD or anything but I'd imagine even meteor would be manageable with 50% damage reduction, especially if paired with a stoneskin effect like Rampart or Diamondhide. The main problem with meteor, which you don't really have with aeroga, is what those tower-defense games call 'splash radius'. Aeroga IV from as far as I can tell is the standard damage -ga/sleepga radius, which means that if people are careful nobody has to be hit by it aside from the people you want to hit. Meteor is the much larger silencega/breakga radius making it difficult if not impossible for support jobs to stay in range of the tank they're supporting without getting hit.

[Khamsin]

For those of you think its sad no one ever takes AV theories seriously anymore and think that the secret will never be discovered because no one ever tries them, this is why.

Now, if someone had started a thread about AV in light of the recent questions about AV in (insert reputable site's interview here), then there might have been some semi-intelligent discussion on the topic.

But this... is started by "So, a bunch of us on Alla were thinking..." and introduced a convoluted ebon panelesque theory, and had no basis in either anything SE has hinted at or plausible logical ideas.

Next time someone starts a thread based on something solid, like hints given out in SE interviews and fanfests or plausible scenarios that don't involve numerology and convoluted math to bridge the logic gap, then people will take it seriously and might actually try something. There just simply hasn't been anything (non-idiotic) to try.

[Royal]

Well, according to SE when they had an interview at Fanfest last year in September, thats when they leaked some info about AV. Such as using element attacks (i.e. fire based spells on firesday to lower regen) and killing more phaubo on JoL to lower the rest. And according to there interview with someone (i think Pikko from alla) they said they also gave hins about other stuff or AV. If you look at what they said for the element attacks, they never said just spells, they only used that as an example. Each Weapon has an elemental WS aligned with it. (Staff = Rock Crusher / Earth Crusher, Dagger = Gust Slash / Cyclone, Sword = Burning Blade / Red Lotus Blade, etc etc) Why not try using a WS corresponding to the day to maybe lock the 2hours? Using Rock Crusher on Earthsday WITH Hope Staff locks Manafont + Astral Flow. Lock those 2 2hours and you get rid of the big AoE aside from aeroga. Also, the only job out of the original 15 that doesnt get a weapon i believe is NIN. Which would make sense since you cant lock NIN 2hour. AV dont use Mijin Gakure, the wyverns do. Maybe you have to use the WS's on JoL + AV. Maybe just JoL. Maybe just AV. I have no idea if this strat has been used before, but im just throwing it out there. Hell, maybe make a SC according to the day like Scission during Earthsday with the Jailer weapons. I dont know anymore.... SE GIVE US CONCRETE INFO!!!

I'm pretty sure that AV used mijin gakure, I can't remember. Also, H2H doesn't have an elemental WS like you said. Axe doesn't either I don't think.

[Thevaultdweller]

Also, the only job out of the original 15 that doesnt get a weapon i believe is NIN.

Ohi
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/259...ghnakhswr5.png

[Carnusty]

Maybe use -each- available WS that the Jailer weapons can use on AV will drop those 2hrs!



Hey, DRG on a HNM not throwing an angon


whm melee ahoooyyyyy

[evilpaul]

NIN H2H isn't as good as PUP's with full merits and sea torque, so I'd say it leaves a little something to be desired as far as Jailer weapons go. (Would an occassionally attacks twice katana with decent base damage and added effect: Dispel that procs pretty often really be too much to ask for? Yeah probably. )

I call your Faith Bagwhatsits and raise you one:
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6...pestaffoj8.png :D

[BRP]

For those of you think its sad no one ever takes AV theories seriously anymore and think that the secret will never be discovered because no one ever tries them, this is why.

Now, if someone had started a thread about AV in light of the recent questions about AV in (insert reputable site's interview here), then there might have been some semi-intelligent discussion on the topic.

But this... is started by "So, a bunch of us on Alla were thinking..." and introduced a convoluted ebon panelesque theory, and had no basis in either anything SE has hinted at or plausible logical ideas.

Next time someone starts a thread based on something solid, like hints given out in SE interviews and fanfests or plausible scenarios that don't involve numerology and convoluted math to bridge the logic gap, then people will take it seriously and might actually try something. There just simply hasn't been anything (non-idiotic) to try.

[Venture]

Well, regardless of where it came from, or how it's presented, stuff like Einherjar, Salvage and AV still get my theoretical whiskers of curiousty twitching. Keep 'em coming. I enjoy reading science fiction, so speculative works with no proven basis of fact are right up my alley.

[Takeno]

Reading AV threads just pisses me off. Can anyone interviewing SE just tell them "Cut the bullshit, just tell us how to fucking kill it, there's no way we can figure this shit out". Or something along the lines, with the backup of maybe 1m players? God damn, fucking SE

[evilpaul]

Reading AV threads just pisses me off. Can anyone interviewing SE just tell them "Cut the bullshit, just tell us how to fucking kill it, there's no way we can figure this shit out". Or something along the lines, with the backup of maybe 1m players? God damn, fucking SE

Get an Elshimo Newt and wtfbbqpwn it. Wasn't that obvious?

Has anyone tried getting SAMs to to a Demon Killer AoE buff order? I bet that's the secret to AV slaughter.

[Kaylia]

In agreement here, I've never set out to see what AV's INT actually is but it wouldn't be that hard. I'm going to guess it's not actually 'insanely high' just based by the way the built mobs in CoP. Zilart HNM typically were super-high level, super high attributes (STR, VIT, INT etc) and other primitive stats (Attack, Defense, Elemental Resistance levels, etc). CoP HNM--particularly in sea--typically were lower level by comparison, reasonable attributes but with extra bonuses/penalties like direct damage reduction or high Magic Attack Bonus, etc.

Wind resist may very well work fine for AV's spells, but the benefit to direct damage-mitigation build is that it will also work just as well for meteor, for which wind resist won't do jack. Never played with AV with an aegis PLD or anything but I'd imagine even meteor would be manageable with 50% damage reduction, especially if paired with a stoneskin effect like Rampart or Diamondhide. The main problem with meteor, which you don't really have with aeroga, is what those tower-defense games call 'splash radius'. Aeroga IV from as far as I can tell is the standard damage -ga/sleepga radius, which means that if people are careful nobody has to be hit by it aside from the people you want to hit. Meteor is the much larger silencega/breakga radius making it difficult if not impossible for support jobs to stay in range of the tank they're supporting without getting hit.

Yeah. Like I stated in my previous post, I was talking about a "locked" AV. I don't see how it's possible to kill it if there isnt a way to lock some of his 2hours like Apocalyptic Beast. Wouldnt really make it an easy NM, but with the correct gears and healing power, it would become tankable at least. I can't think of another instance in this game where an NM use a skill that can wipe a whole party at will, where there is no way to avoid it. They usualy give you a chance to avoid damage by outrunning the mobs, or dying alone (ultima). Huge AoE for 4k dmg is just too much for anyone to handle

[edit]
Well, I forgot about Dynamis Lord, which is about as bad as AV if you don't count his weakness to stun. >_> No idea how they thought people would kill it.

Reading AV threads just pisses me off. Can anyone interviewing SE just tell them "Cut the bullshit, just tell us how to fucking kill it, there's no way we can figure this shit out". Or something along the lines, with the backup of maybe 1m players? God damn, fucking SE

It's just hard to find enough player that dont mind losing xp and time, or at least, there isn't 25-30 like that in most linkshell. It was the same thing when people were looking for the "new" NM in sea, or when people were trying to figure Salvage.

[Tomiko]

For those of you think its sad no one ever takes AV theories seriously anymore and think that the secret will never be discovered because no one ever tries them, this is why.

Now, if someone had started a thread about AV in light of the recent questions about AV in (insert reputable site's interview here), then there might have been some semi-intelligent discussion on the topic.

But this... is started by "So, a bunch of us on Alla were thinking..." and introduced a convoluted ebon panelesque theory, and had no basis in either anything SE has hinted at or plausible logical ideas.

Next time someone starts a thread based on something solid, like hints given out in SE interviews and fanfests or plausible scenarios that don't involve numerology and convoluted math to bridge the logic gap, then people will take it seriously and might actually try something. There just simply hasn't been anything (non-idiotic) to try.

Best post on this thread.

[Garret]

Well, I forgot about Dynamis Lord, which is about as bad as AV if you don't count his weakness to stun. >_> No idea how they thought people would kill it.

Not sure if you were referring to his capacity for such a vicious AoE, but a notable difference is also the capacity to tackle him with 64 people simultaneously, and obviously his weakness to stun takes the edge off.

[Meko]

Based on the "history" behind the Jailers and AV, I would think they all tie in somehow. As far as Dynamis Lord being impossible, the difference was people were able to get him down to low %'s before wiping. Not to mention 64 people can full attack him. Even with 64 people, AV can still spam Benediction. Im positive you cant burn AV without stopping his 2hrs. There is no way to overcome that without "locking" him.

[Changz]

Have you checked the jobs of the Aerns around AV's spawn? Are they constant jobs, or do they cycle? For that matter, are any of the jobs for the Aerns constant or do they all rotate?

My linkshell looked in to aern jobs in that area many months back, we found certain ones were static, others cycled 2 jobs. We also found no relation to AV's 2hours when killing the aerns of any certain job in that area.

[divisortheory]

I think it's funny that SE recently spelled it out and people still refuse to take a hint. "We can't say much except that killing the monsters around Absolute Virtue will prevent his regen". Hello McFly! Does that mean killing mobs all the way across the entire fucking zone will weaken him? There's only a few mobs around AV. 3 of them are Aerns, and 6 of them are Wynavs. Use your imagination.

[Spekkio]

the primary difference is that all of DL's attacks, 2 hrs, etc are offensive in nature, making a war of attrition very plausible. hit him harder and faster than he can hit you and you win. chainspell stunning limits the rate of his damage, making that fight possible. his only means of recovering is transfusion which isn't all that impressive. once he loses 1 hp, that HP is gone forever unless you wipe, basically.

AV does not abide by that rule. he has a high regen, though it's possible to combat it, and far worse, he has benediction. throwing more and more players at AV would work if he didn't recover HP. not being able to bar him from resetting your work at will, however, makes it impossible to kill him. AB does not need to be locked, because you can kill him easily before he benedictions. even if he should benediction at 1%, there still should be no difficulty bringing him down again b/c if he lasts long enough to cycle around again, you just suck. AB uses his 2 hrs in a controlled and regular fashion, while AV seems to use them purely at its own discretion. surely there must be some way to control his 2hring, but at current SE has failed to provide us enough information in a clear enough fashion for anyone to divine the correct answer from all the "lolebonpanels" posts. btw, they really need to tell us what those are for! hope they're porters around palace. that would make hunting temperance far less annoying.

[Changz]

I think it's funny that SE recently spelled it out and people still refuse to take a hint. "We can't say much except that killing the monsters around Absolute Virtue will prevent his regen". Hello McFly! Does that mean killing mobs all the way across the entire fucking zone will weaken him? There's only a few mobs around AV. 3 of them are Aerns, and 6 of them are Wynavs. Use your imagination.

As far as I know, AV pops where Jailer of Love dies. Most linkshells just fight Jailer of Love at the pop location out of convenience, but that wouldn't specifically state that the surrounding mobs of that area are any more related to AV then the mobs at the other end of the zone I suppose. Wynavs would be the obvious answer, but during the period after the ninja nerf they were slaughtered in a variety of ways in numerous quantities to no avail.

As far as AV threads go, I like the ideas that pop up now and then buried in the lolery... many of them aren't great ideas, but sometimes a not so great idea leads to another perspective that leads to a great idea.

[Credos]

I think it's funny that SE recently spelled it out and people still refuse to take a hint. "We can't say much except that killing the monsters around Absolute Virtue will prevent his regen". Hello McFly! Does that mean killing mobs all the way across the entire fucking zone will weaken him? There's only a few mobs around AV. 3 of them are Aerns, and 6 of them are Wynavs. Use your imagination.

I thought the problem wasn't with his regen, but the fact that he can cast Meteor, Bene, cast ga spells that wipe out entire alliances, etc.