Absolute Virtue Theory

[Spekkio]

I think it's funny that SE recently spelled it out and people still refuse to take a hint. "We can't say much except that killing the monsters around Absolute Virtue will prevent his regen". Hello McFly! Does that mean killing mobs all the way across the entire fucking zone will weaken him? There's only a few mobs around AV. 3 of them are Aerns, and 6 of them are Wynavs. Use your imagination.

As far as I know, AV pops where Jailer of Love dies. Most linkshells just fight Jailer of Love at the pop location out of convenience, but that wouldn't specifically state that the surrounding mobs of that area are any more related to AV then the mobs at the other end of the zone I suppose. Wynavs would be the obvious answer, but during the period after the ninja nerf they were slaughtered in a variety of ways in numerous quantities to no avail.

As far as AV threads go, I like the ideas that pop up now and then buried in the lolery... many of them aren't great ideas, but sometimes a not so great idea leads to another perspective that leads to a great idea.

one possibility is that it gets the 2 hr of whatever aern are within, say a 30' radius of it. still, i think that all this talk about aerns popping near it hold about as much water as the ebon panels. stupid unbeatable mobs... stupid coy SE.

responding to Credos, i believe he only starts pitching meteor around under manafont, much in the same way (iirc) faith can only pitch quake2 under manafont. lock his manafont 2 hr and he stops casting meteor i think.

[Venture]

@Changz: Just for future reference, what combination of stats and spells managed to 0 out Tornado II? I'm curious.

[Changz]

Shadow ring lol

[MisterBob]

AV always pops in the same spot, which is the center of that alcove. You can't actually pull JOL very far, he's like a Wyrm, where he'll just start spamming Draw-In. I believe you can get him to the edge of the water, thats about it.

AV indeed only casts Meteor during Manafont.
I don't see how killing Aerns near him would help, when I fought AV with around 20, we immediately -ga'd the Aerns when AV popped so they wouldnt get in the way. He still 2hr'd like a bitch

[Changz]

AV always pops in the same spot, which is the center of that alcove. You can't actually pull JOL very far, he's like a Wyrm, where he'll just start spamming Draw-In. I believe you can get him to the edge of the water, thats about it.

That's interesting. We've never tried to take Jailer of Love out of that area, and somewhere along the way the idea of AV just popping where Jailer of Love dies was injected in my head. Was there a point in the past that JoL could be taken out of that area perhaps?

[Kaylia]

Well, I forgot about Dynamis Lord, which is about as bad as AV if you don't count his weakness to stun. >_> No idea how they thought people would kill it.

Not sure if you were referring to his capacity for such a vicious AoE, but a notable difference is also the capacity to tackle him with 64 people simultaneously, and obviously his weakness to stun takes the edge off.

Yeah, was refering mostly to his AoE. I'm not certain how you could handle oblivion smash other than rdm/drk strategy. I'm not saying DL was impossible, it just that there was no traditional way to mitigate the damage of his AoE while killing him. Making imune AV to every debuff but Shadow Bind kinda limit our zerging strategy. Can't kite it as well because it's fast.

I kinda want to fight it now without chainspell stun. I wonder if it's doable with pimped gears, merit and many /nin subs. Is it imune ES silence? Beside AoE debuff, it would probably be zergable with a few stun here and there during hundred fist.

I think it's funny that SE recently spelled it out and people still refuse to take a hint. "We can't say much except that killing the monsters around Absolute Virtue will prevent his regen". Hello McFly! Does that mean killing mobs all the way across the entire fucking zone will weaken him? There's only a few mobs around AV. 3 of them are Aerns, and 6 of them are Wynavs. Use your imagination.

When did they say "killing monster around AV"? I just remember their old "kill phuabo" thing. Anyway, as long its not benediction locked, it wont be manageable.

As far as I know, AV pops where Jailer of Love dies. Most linkshells just fight Jailer of Love at the pop location out of convenience, but that wouldn't specifically state that the surrounding mobs of that area are any more related to AV then the mobs at the other end of the zone I suppose. Wynavs would be the obvious answer, but during the period after the ninja nerf they were slaughtered in a variety of ways in numerous quantities to no avail.

Can you really pull it anywhere? He start using draw in a lot when you leave the land.

It might be possible using a pet/summon, but it would be a real hassle with JoL summing's pet

[Changz]

As far as I know, AV pops where Jailer of Love dies. Most linkshells just fight Jailer of Love at the pop location out of convenience, but that wouldn't specifically state that the surrounding mobs of that area are any more related to AV then the mobs at the other end of the zone I suppose. Wynavs would be the obvious answer, but during the period after the ninja nerf they were slaughtered in a variety of ways in numerous quantities to no avail.

Can you really pull it anywhere? He start using draw in a lot when you leave the land.

It might be possible using a pet/summon, but it would be a real hassle with JoL summing's pet

We've never tried to pull it away from the alcove. To be honest I'm not sure where I came to the conclusion that a) it could be pulled away and b) AV popped where Jailer of Love died as I can't personally confirm either. May have either been old or unconfirmed information as a result of scouring AV data months ago and my apologies for any confusion.

[Suiram]

AV always pops in the same spot, which is the center of that alcove. You can't actually pull JOL very far, he's like a Wyrm, where he'll just start spamming Draw-In. I believe you can get him to the edge of the water, thats about it.

AV indeed only casts Meteor during Manafont.
I don't see how killing Aerns near him would help, when I fought AV with around 20, we immediately -ga'd the Aerns when AV popped so they wouldnt get in the way. He still 2hr'd like a bitch

AV pops directly below where JoL dies, which of course due to the draw-in you described is going to be somewhere in that general alcove area, but it is noticeably different depending on where you choose to fight JoL inside that area, definitely not always in the center. It's also the location he returns to every time hate is lost. As for JoL draw-in specifically it seems that it's a conjunction of distance and his position. If JoL's position is not within area A, AND the distance from the person with the most hate is longer than R, he'll draw that person in.

[Khamsin]

AV always pops in the same spot, which is the center of that alcove. You can't actually pull JOL very far, he's like a Wyrm, where he'll just start spamming Draw-In. I believe you can get him to the edge of the water, thats about it.

AV indeed only casts Meteor during Manafont.
I don't see how killing Aerns near him would help, when I fought AV with around 20, we immediately -ga'd the Aerns when AV popped so they wouldnt get in the way. He still 2hr'd like a bitch

AV pops directly below where JoL dies, which of course due to the draw-in you described is going to be somewhere in that general alcove area, but it is noticeably different depending on where you choose to fight JoL inside that area, definitely not always in the center. It's also the location he returns to every time hate is lost. As for JoL draw-in specifically it seems that it's a conjunction of distance and his position. If JoL's position is not within area A, AND the distance from the person with the most hate is longer than R, he'll draw that person in.

To expand upon that, we usually pull JoL just outside of the alcove so that AV's spawn (and home point) is away from the other aerns there. It's more convenient than having to deal with aern links whenever we engage AV.

[Spekkio]

i thought i remembered someone telling me that the "electric leash" of love was anywhere on the landmass that he pops on. IE, he'll draw you in if you run just too far away, or if you run into the water. is that not correct? outside the little bottleneck, there's still some land to yank him to, away from the aern and before the water, which is where i think most people fight him.

[Suiram]

Once JoL reaches the effective perimeter of his alcove he'll start drawing-in. There's still some land mass that the person can stand on not yet to the water, but JoL will prefer to draw-in rather than walk out to that part himself. You could pull him out further if you wanted, since he always moves a few steps before drawing in, so you can keep running out towards the water and getting drawn in, rather like pulling Aspid to a wall, but there's no real benefit to doing so as the perimeter of his 'preferred' area is adequate for what Khamsin mentioned above.

[Elipse]

Have you checked the jobs of the Aerns around AV's spawn? Are they constant jobs, or do they cycle? For that matter, are any of the jobs for the Aerns constant or do they all rotate?

My linkshell looked in to aern jobs in that area many months back, we found certain ones were static, others cycled 2 jobs. We also found no relation to AV's 2hours when killing the aerns of any certain job in that area.

Was this prepatch or post patch of AV? Even if its post patch, perhaps Aerns are simply for regen only and something else will lock the abilities and/or magic.

Lets say AV was supposed to work with killing Aerns to reduce regen maybe even affect his abilities. Lets say it was broken, and after trying all the aerns, LS's were like "Thats not the way". Then they find out AV is broken and glitchy. They manage to take it down a few times, with some glitchy zerg method that didnt' always work but sometimes kicked in, SE realizes the coding on AV is busted and the Aerns/surrounding mobs is broken. SE fixes the glitch and restores AV to the way its supposed to be killed.

I'm not saying the Aerns will affect it all. It can be anything that has ever been tried to date. If it hasn't been effectly tested since the AV ninja patch, we can't rule it out. Maybe they fixed the glitch and the answer to locking his WS's and Magic is as simple as doing a WS with the proper element of the current day, and bursting with a spell of the current day. Maybe you got to do it with jailer weapons? 3 Tier II jailers, 3 major AV issues (Spells, WS's and 2hrs), relation?

Maybe its all stupid and over thinking. The point being here I think a new look needs to be taken at killing AV. Anything that was tried prepatch basically needs to be thrown out and/or retested. How do we know its not the stupid lolweapons? Cause it was done prepatch when AV was clearly glitchy?

I know the exp loss sucks, but if you guys get a chance, give it another go. I know I'll be directing my LS give it another shot next time it pops. We do 1-2 JoL's a month, so maybe we'll get an AV pop soon and we'll test as much as possible while we can. I do think its time people stop being so closed minded and maybe give testing another shot next time it pops. Throw everything out the door and start from scratch. Exp is a joke these days, so whats a little exp, perhaps we'll learn something.

[Changz]

Have you checked the jobs of the Aerns around AV's spawn? Are they constant jobs, or do they cycle? For that matter, are any of the jobs for the Aerns constant or do they all rotate?

My linkshell looked in to aern jobs in that area many months back, we found certain ones were static, others cycled 2 jobs. We also found no relation to AV's 2hours when killing the aerns of any certain job in that area.

Was this prepatch or post patch of AV? Even if its post patch, perhaps Aerns are simply for regen only and something else will lock the abilities and/or magic.

Lets say AV was supposed to work with killing Aerns to reduce regen maybe even affect his abilities. Lets say it was broken, and after trying all the aerns, LS's were like "Thats not the way". Then they find out AV is broken and glitchy. They manage to take it down a few times, with some glitchy zerg method that didnt' always work but sometimes kicked in, SE realizes the coding on AV is busted and the Aerns/surrounding mobs is broken. SE fixes the glitch and restores AV to the way its supposed to be killed.

I'm not saying the Aerns will affect it all. It can be anything that has ever been tried to date. If it hasn't been effectly tested since the AV ninja patch, we can't rule it out. Maybe they fixed the glitch and the answer to locking his WS's and Magic is as simple as doing a WS with the proper element of the current day, and bursting with a spell of the current day. Maybe you got to do it with jailer weapons? 3 Tier II jailers, 3 major AV issues (Spells, WS's and 2hrs), relation?

Maybe its all stupid and over thinking. The point being here I think a new look needs to be taken at killing AV. Anything that was tried prepatch basically needs to be thrown out and/or retested. How do we know its not the stupid lolweapons? Cause it was done prepatch when AV was clearly glitchy?

I know the exp loss sucks, but if you guys get a chance, give it another go. I know I'll be directing my LS give it another shot next time it pops. We do 1-2 JoL's a month, so maybe we'll get an AV pop soon and we'll test as much as possible while we can. I do think its time people stop being so closed minded and maybe give testing another shot next time it pops. Throw everything out the door and start from scratch. Exp is a joke these days, so whats a little exp, perhaps we'll learn something.

Was tested after the ninja patch, specifically the beginning of this year. We basically followed every aern in the immediate area, killed 1 at a time tracking what it repopped as. Several cycle 2 jobs, some only 1. Not all jobs are in that immediate bay area. The 2hour relation testing was done on different scenarios: aerns just in the area, aerns that were linked, and aerns jobs in the bay. There were several instances when AV used a 2h that, when going back to verify which aerns were in the area, the 2h would not have been available had their been a relationship to the aerns. We didn't look at regen at all, as we didn't really make serious attempts at fighting him, only gathering information on what could affect his 2hour cycling.

[donnie]

i got no suggestion but reading what have being said my conclusion is this :

1- in pre-patch , the forms he was on was either full mode , no 2hrs but spells WS and finally nothing just meleeing. so if we want to assume that the coding was based on that , i dont see how killing mobs with diffrent jobs effects it. you have to lock 3 things: 2hrs ( all together locked in 1 way ) , his regen ( in 1 way) , and his WSs ( 1 way )

2- what SE said in the past fan festival was about skillchain and MB current day / whatever from monsters spawned from Jol @.o and many said it was a typo , this time they said its monsters around him effect his regen.

3- killing his wyvrans ( maybe those are the monsters around him ;p ) , did in fact lock him 1 way or another in the past but was not the correct way by SE.

SO adding those together , you can build your theory based on those information , other then that , i really dont see that you need to kill 15 mobs lol , it should be more simpler.

[Max™]

More simpler indeed.

[donnie]

you cant match my engRish skills . 8)

[Gere]

Next time someone starts a thread based on something solid, like hints given out in SE interviews and fanfests or plausible scenarios that don't involve numerology and convoluted math to bridge the logic gap, then people will take it seriously and might actually try something. There just simply hasn't been anything (non-idiotic) to try.

This was based off a hint given in an se interview, alla got it off this line from pikko's interview:

We cannot give you any other tips besides if you kill the monsters around him, it will slow the regen ability.

[Elipse]

Have you checked the jobs of the Aerns around AV's spawn? Are they constant jobs, or do they cycle? For that matter, are any of the jobs for the Aerns constant or do they all rotate?

My linkshell looked in to aern jobs in that area many months back, we found certain ones were static, others cycled 2 jobs. We also found no relation to AV's 2hours when killing the aerns of any certain job in that area.

Was this prepatch or post patch of AV? Even if its post patch, perhaps Aerns are simply for regen only and something else will lock the abilities and/or magic.

Lets say AV was supposed to work with killing Aerns to reduce regen maybe even affect his abilities. Lets say it was broken, and after trying all the aerns, LS's were like "Thats not the way". Then they find out AV is broken and glitchy. They manage to take it down a few times, with some glitchy zerg method that didnt' always work but sometimes kicked in, SE realizes the coding on AV is busted and the Aerns/surrounding mobs is broken. SE fixes the glitch and restores AV to the way its supposed to be killed.

I'm not saying the Aerns will affect it all. It can be anything that has ever been tried to date. If it hasn't been effectly tested since the AV ninja patch, we can't rule it out. Maybe they fixed the glitch and the answer to locking his WS's and Magic is as simple as doing a WS with the proper element of the current day, and bursting with a spell of the current day. Maybe you got to do it with jailer weapons? 3 Tier II jailers, 3 major AV issues (Spells, WS's and 2hrs), relation?

Maybe its all stupid and over thinking. The point being here I think a new look needs to be taken at killing AV. Anything that was tried prepatch basically needs to be thrown out and/or retested. How do we know its not the stupid lolweapons? Cause it was done prepatch when AV was clearly glitchy?

I know the exp loss sucks, but if you guys get a chance, give it another go. I know I'll be directing my LS give it another shot next time it pops. We do 1-2 JoL's a month, so maybe we'll get an AV pop soon and we'll test as much as possible while we can. I do think its time people stop being so closed minded and maybe give testing another shot next time it pops. Throw everything out the door and start from scratch. Exp is a joke these days, so whats a little exp, perhaps we'll learn something.

Was tested after the ninja patch, specifically the beginning of this year. We basically followed every aern in the immediate area, killed 1 at a time tracking what it repopped as. Several cycle 2 jobs, some only 1. Not all jobs are in that immediate bay area. The 2hour relation testing was done on different scenarios: aerns just in the area, aerns that were linked, and aerns jobs in the bay. There were several instances when AV used a 2h that, when going back to verify which aerns were in the area, the 2h would not have been available had their been a relationship to the aerns. We didn't look at regen at all, as we didn't really make serious attempts at fighting him, only gathering information on what could affect his 2hour cycling.

Questions for clarification, not out of doubt. I just want to make sure we are on the same page. This has sparked up some conversation on my LS website and before we make decisions on exactly what we'll go about testing when he pops, I want to cover everything. So please forgive me asking questions on a subject we know most are annoyed with.

Moving on, When those 2 hrs went off, were the respective Aerns currently dead? Or did a 2 hr go off and you guys were like "well we killed that one last time, so it should have been locked"?. If that wasn't clear, was the Whm Aern currently dead when Benediction went off? Was Ninja mob dead when Mijin Gakure went off? That type of thing.

Also, the 3 Aerns at JoL spawn. One theory that was brought up is that they might be related to more than regen. 3 Aerns for WS/Magic/2 hrs. So, Were they currently dead when say, spells weaponskills or 2hrs were going off?

I think specific answers to those would help us clear up some theories on the aerns and get us looking in different directions for answers on how to kill it. (if it can even be killed, but the Devs are probably blowing smoke up our asses)

[Mathaios]

I don't see how killing Aerns near him would help, when I fought AV with around 20, we immediately -ga'd the Aerns when AV popped so they wouldnt get in the way. He still 2hr'd like a bitch

[spooky]

More simpler indeed.

lol