How would you explain why /NIN dual-wield > twohanded weapon

[Kyreth]

Say I have someone who's relatively new to the game, and I'd like to explain gently to them why using GAxe in a meriting PT would be a bad idea. Without wiseass remarks, what should I point out to enlighten them?

[Starr]

Better DPS and better WS.


Nothing more needs to be said.

[Carnusty]

Simple answer is this-

/NIN allows for more hits overall, improving DPS

Also gives you an extra hit in your weapon skills, improving DPS

Also allows you to offhand a good stat boosting / TP boosting weapon (y hallo thar Maneater/Ridill) thus improving your DPS

DPS DPS DPS DPS

[fantasticdan]

Also important, you need to sub /drg or /sam to really boost g. axe damage as a war, so you lose your main source of damage mitigation in the process, utsusemi of coarse.

What annoys me thou, is low level wars never bothering to use g. axe, and going axe/axe from 1-75, even thou g. axe is so much better for a while.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Also important, you need to sub /drg or /sam to really boost g. axe damage as a war, so you lose your main source of damage mitigation in the process, utsusemi of coarse.

What annoys me thou, is low level wars never bothering to use g. axe, and going axe/axe from 1-75, even thou g. axe is so much better for a while.

Cue eff tee for all of it

This is my 2nd biggest annoyance, right after axe/axe DRKs

[Tsukasaz]

Also important, you need to sub /drg or /sam to really boost g. axe damage as a war, so you lose your main source of damage mitigation in the process, utsusemi of coarse.

What annoys me thou, is low level wars never bothering to use g. axe, and going axe/axe from 1-75, even thou g. axe is so much better for a while.

Cue eff tee for all of it

This is my 2nd biggest annoyance, right after axe/axe DRKs

I did Axe/Axe on DRK to 37, although I did solo PL myself with a BRD from level 1 lol. Horrible Accuracy in the one Garlaige party I was in though. D:

[Senji]

When i lvled my drk with a g axe, got an invite from a 13 war/nin...

[Ferien]

When i lvled my drk with a g axe, got an invite from a 13 war/nin...

ew.

[Kirschy]

Assuming Level 75 in normal TP Burn meripo~


A) Attack Speed
/NIN Dual wield is going to give a 15% delay reduction in attack speed while granting utsusemi and the ability to mitigate damage effictively and tank
/SAM will provide only 10% while removing the ability tank



B) Damage Calcs
Damage calculations are as follows~
(DMG Rating on Weapon + fSTR) * pdif

An attack round from a dualwielder will be
(DMG Rating on Weapon 1 + fSTR) * pdif + (DMG Rating on Weapon 2 + fSTR) * pdif
which simplifies to
(DMG Rating on Weapon 1 + Weapon 2 + 2*fSTR) * pdif

vs an attack round from a 2H:
(DMG Rating on Weapon + fSTR) * pdif

Each attack round from a dualwielder is going to include more base damage from the extra fSTR.



C) Equipment
Popular Endgame 1-H Axes:
Maneater: DMG: 49, Attack+18, Acc+5
Jugg: DMG: 46, STR+3 Attack+30

Popular Endgame 2-H Axes:
Byakko's Axe: DMG:94, Attack+5
Martial Bhuj: DMG: 88, TP Bonus for Steel Cyclone



D) Weapon Skill
While dualwielding there is an extra hit added to WS.
Rampage: 5hit + 1 offhand = 6 Hit WS that can critical

When using 2-H axe
Raging Rush: 3 Hit (Small variation in damage from 100-300TP.)
Steel Cyclone: 1-Hit (Small variation in damage from 100-200TP, Large damage at 300TP.)


While I'm sure a WAR/SAM could perform fine as a DD in any meripo situation, there's a lot of reason to use /NIN.

[SassiAsura]

Everything that has been said is pretty much all good.

Weapon stats on Great Axe aren't nearly as impressing as those on single handed weapons. The only thing 2h weapons have going for them is the base Damage. Which is fine for HNM but quite often, using a large amount of att+ you can sort of make up for it with your single hand weapons.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

someone who's relatively new to the game

...in a meriting PT would be a bad idea

Why would meriting party strategy matter to a person who is new to the game. As they level they will realize on their own. And if its a bought account, that is the biggest problem with buying accounts, people dont know wtf they are doing.

[Gilanth]

When should you switch to duel axe btw?


Why we are on the subject.

[Septimus]

This should explain everything he needs to know.

But seriously, to summarize everything:

Low delay leading to high DoT from regular melee strikes.
Low delay allows double attack to proc more often, both increase TP gain.
Shadows to keep your face from being gnawed off.
Great bonuses on one-handed weapons that you just cannot get on two-handed weapons that can be mixed and matched. (Including "Occasionally Attacks Twice" and "Occasionally attacks 2 to 3 times".)
Very strong multi-hit weaponskill to compliment the high melee DoT.

[Gere]

someone who's relatively new to the game

...in a meriting PT would be a bad idea

Why would meriting party strategy matter to a person who is new to the game. As they level they will realize on their own. And if its a bought account, that is the biggest problem with buying accounts, people dont know wtf they are doing.

[Ferien]

When should you switch to duel axe btw?


Why we are on the subject.

As a WAR? DPS-wise, Combat Caster's Axe +2 @ 43. Stat-wise, Viking Axe @ 48. Trait-wise, Dual-Wield 2 @ 50. WS-wise, Rampage @ 55.

IMO, If you don't have 2 Viking Axes, you're better off with Great Axe until 55. Everyone has their preferences though, and the answers are probably going to vary between 48, 50, and 55. Just, for the love of god, don't switch before then.

[Loren]

SJ is the main consideration for meriting.

If your goal is endless chaining, then you're looking at short fights (no time for a "main tank" to build hate) and a minimal backline (limited MP for cure) so frontliners need Utsusemi. Once you make that decision, then you find yourself with Dual Wield trait, and no Hasso/Jump/Sneak Attack so it's pretty natural which weapons to choose from there.

THAT SAID,
I wish Warriors would be more in touch with their G.Axes. I know it makes them feel dirty to fight like a DRK/SAM/DRG but they just make sense in a lot of situations outside a Lv75 merit party. For a lot of NMs, you need a serious hate monger tank to protect the mages anyway, so the WARs don't need Utsusemi. Things like Sneak Attack, Meditate, and Break-series WS start to matter a lot more when you're dealing with a high-defense high-evasion target. I know the OP was about meriting, but merit-onry WARs can be a little frustrating in certain events if they aren't flexible enough to have capped G.Axe and various SJ.

[isladar]

I fell in love with the Break WSs again once they introduced Besieged. It was really gratifying to see a bunch of WARs plinking out tiny Rampages -- whereas I'd Full Break > Med > Steel Cyclone for deliciousness.

BREAK WS ARE WONDERFUL. They are made of yes and lovely.

[Kaylia]

Just copy paste damage formula and pretend you know what you are talking about. Most people give up at this point and will agree with anything you say, since they are lazy and wont double check if what you say make sense.

[Iono]

Whaaaa... I thought u said someone was Dual-weilding two-handed weapons


Basically the answer is "Because the game is dumb like that"

[Max™]

Breaks are also nice during skillup.

Using a Merc sword, crabs last a lot longer than Meditate Timer, so I'll beat a mob down, then swap back to Gaxe, meditate+2 hits and Full Break, then back to merc sword as it whiffs me like mad and hits for 0's.