To harass PS2 users or not?

[aurik]

This may have been said, but I dont feel like reading 7 pages to put my 2 cents in. I have both ps2 and pc versions but I play mainly on pc. Now correct me if im wrong but there are certain things that are different between the two. Example on pc you can turn weather effects on and off, ps2 you cant. So obviously they dont mind making the games slightly different and im sure a few of the enhancements they are talking about that are "limited by ps2" could be toned down for ps2 and it wouldnt cause a great catastrophe. Some of the things would cause great differences in gameplay between the platforms so I can understand that they cannot be done because of the ps2, im just getting sick of hearing the same excuse for EVERY game enhancement that is suggested.

Believe it or not but the ability of the PC to disable "features" was initially implemented because getting PC hardware to run the game effectively back in 2002 was somewhat expensive. They wanted to lower the minimum specs needed so they allowed you to turn off features which are expensive on the PC.

The tables have turned now.

[Attila]

This may have been said, but I dont feel like reading 7 pages to put my 2 cents in. I have both ps2 and pc versions but I play mainly on pc. Now correct me if im wrong but there are certain things that are different between the two. Example on pc you can turn weather effects on and off, ps2 you cant. So obviously they dont mind making the games slightly different and im sure a few of the enhancements they are talking about that are "limited by ps2" could be toned down for ps2 and it wouldnt cause a great catastrophe. Some of the things would cause great differences in gameplay between the platforms so I can understand that they cannot be done because of the ps2, im just getting sick of hearing the same excuse for EVERY game enhancement that is suggested.

Believe it or not but the ability of the PC to disable "features" was initially implemented because getting PC hardware to run the game effectively back in 2002 was somewhat expensive. They wanted to lower the minimum specs needed so they allowed you to turn off features which are expensive on the PC.

The tables have turned now.

I'd believe it easily, I still have to turn off weather when a sand or snowstorm kicks up...

[Ashky]

You can bluster all you want about quitting, but the fact is most likely you probably would figure out a way to play if you couldn't play on PS2. If not, well, bye, because you're not worth the effort.

The same could be said about whining for dropping the support for the PS2. So what happens if they don't drop it Aurik? Absolutely nothing that's what. Truth be told, with all the gear you own, I'd be shocked if you ever quit playing this game. I respect the hell out of your in game accomplishments, but you are the type of person that will never quit playing this game until it dies. This goes for a vast majority of BG readers. Not trying to take a personal shot at you (or any BG forum member) by any means, and I see your point, but the game is 5 years old. The amount of playtime you guys have amassed is incredible and you are the most hardcore of the "hardcore." They need to just quit worrying about lolPS2 and make a totally brand new game.


I think a better solution would be to allow you to access your mog locker while in the field. Don't allow equip swaps or anything to come out of it, but allow us to stick something in it from anywhere inside the game. This way, I could leave my god tanking set in there until I actually need it. When I do need it, I could exchange my god tanking set for my haste set up because I don't need it that instant. This eliminates most of the problem of 60 total spaces because those 60 spaces can be swapped at any time outside of battle. If I go farming, the ability to leave 10 or so spaces open in my 60 slots of inventory would be fine, because once I fill those 10, I could then place in the locker until later, and then get 10 more items. Just a thought. A little more hassle than having 80 spaces available, but better than the current set up for sure.


Edit: Spelling and grammar.

[Ploid]

Yea, this discussion is going in circles. No one want's to changee how they like to play, and some of the PC people think the game is dying because of PS2 support, well and 360 support also. One of the things that was said is SE have to develop and test new content (Mods almost since the engine is already in place) for PS2, 360, and PC. Doing this supposedly cause them to spend too much time making said content. By now you would think they have a basic way of porting the content to all the platforms in a nice efficent manner. We know better though, they struggle am I right (i'm spying on them now). They can give pc slots and space, they just don't want to! Get on their case, it could be a PC feature like weather effects.

We know they are working on a new MMORPG. They have the license to Unreal Engine 3 so they can make it for PS3, 360, and PC supposedly. One day that UE3 engine will look like crap (some say it has it's weakness already). And the cycle begins again...

[aurik]

You can bluster all you want about quitting, but the fact is most likely you probably would figure out a way to play if you couldn't play on PS2. If not, well, bye, because you're not worth the effort.

The same could be said about whining for dropping the support for the PS2. So what happens if they don't drop it Aurik? Absolutely nothing that's what. Truth be told, with all the gear you own, I'd be shocked if you ever quit playing this game. I respect the hell out of your in game accomplishments, but you are the type of person that will never quit playing this game until it dies. This goes for a vast majority of BG readers. Not trying to take a personal shot at you (or any BG forum member) by any means, and I see your point, but the game is 5 years old. The amount of playtime you guys have amassed is incredible and you are the most hardcore of the "hardcore." They need to just quit worrying about lolPS2 and make a totally brand new game.


I think a better solution would be to allow you to access your mog locker while in the field. Don't allow equip swaps or anything to come out of it, but allow us to stick something in it from anywhere inside the game. This way, I could leave my god tanking set in there until I actually need it. When I do need it, I could exchange my god tanking set for my haste set up because I don't need it that instant. This eliminates most of the problem of 60 total spaces because those 60 spaces can be swapped at any time outside of battle. If I go farming, the ability to leave 10 or so spaces open in my 60 slots of inventory would be fine, because once I fill those 10, I could then place in the locker until later, and then get 10 more items. Just a thought. A little more hassle than having 80 spaces available, but better than the current set up for sure.


Edit: Spelling and grammar.

It's already been said whats going to happen if they don't cut PS2 support: continued slow-bleed of players as SE continues to fail at meeting the playerbase's needs.

Read the thread before posting.

[shihei]

well ok yes they sure did stop producing new fat ps2. even the slim version will not be made for much lonnger witrh ps3 out and prices dropping eventually.
but that doesnt mean they dont still support the fatties or the harddrives, you can send you stuff to texas in a box if it breaks and sony will repair what needs to be repaired(HD too) and send you the bill.
All in all it would cost more money for them to change all that stuff you mentioned in an old game when they have new ones on the horizon.

[Bakthi]

It's already been said whats going to happen if they don't cut PS2 support: continued slow-bleed of players as SE continues to fail at meeting the playerbase's needs.

Disclaimers: Yes, I have read the entire thread; yes, I play on PS2.

I'm not entirely convinced that eliminating support for the PS2 would actually cause the SE development team to give you what you want. Even if the PS2 hardware is what's holding them to 60 inventory slots (possible but unconfirmed), it doesn't necessarily follow that eliminating PS2 support would result in immediate and dramatic inventory expansion, or even eventual and slight inventory expansion. Same goes for the number of macro lines. Possible, and perhaps even likely, but not assured.

Also, those are the "easy" problems. Making the game "look better", as has already been noted, is a lot of work that SE has stated they don't want to do. They might not want to do it even if it were easier due to no more PS2 support issues. They might decide that the development costs they save from dropping PS2 support, rather than going into FFXI, should go to another project entirely. I think it says something about this company that players, myself included, are super-excited about version updates containing small, long-overdue fixes that indicate SE might actually have listened to the players and decided to care.

I suppose I'm one of the least likely to advocate dropping PS2 support. I have a relatively low income, because I'd rather have more free time. I am a staunch anti-Microsoft bigot; the two computers I have run Debian, and I have no desire to have Windows Anything anywhere near this place. I've played games only on consoles for years, and as long as I can tell the difference between a tree and a player, I don't care about the graphics.

That said...if PS2 support is what's really holding SE back from giving us these nice things, then sure, away with it. I'll upgrade the bedroom computer, relegate it to FFXI and MythTV use only, move some stuff around, and be done. At least I can make a Windows PC quieter than a PS2, nab Windows 2000 or something from the university, and firewall the shit out of it.

But! I don't think any of us can really be sure dropping PS2 support would lead to anything the players want. If, as in your hypothetical situation, SE suddenly gave PC players Windower-like macro functionality and extra inventory, and provided your proposed upgrade package? I'd bite.

[The Blackrose]

If anything, this thread serves as a reminder to why I sometimes hate working in the technical sect.

As aurik has repeated and elaborated on for the good majority of this thread (and with a personal note, has been victim to some of the most shittiest logic I have seen since people like grunion have opened their mouths), the development of FFXI's engine is at best stuck in a stagnant state of development. The fact that they have been able to squeeze so much out of the PS2 can be construed as remarkable, but time and time again, eventually a piece of software has to evolve or die. The PS2's specifications have been holding back FFXI from being able to accomplish a numerous amount of overhauls, such as user interface refinement, more complex macro/bind control, storage limitations, etc. Right now, SE could be taking advantage of certain pieces of technology or refining/optimizing for better hardware, but they are instead stuck with having to coddle a piece of legacy hardware.

At this rate, FFXI will be antiquated while MMOs such as Vanguard (yes, despite it's ability to suck, I list it here), World of Warcraft and EverQuest 2 will continue to reap in the rewards of adaptability and the ability to add more features to their client base without the worries of potential limitations such as legacy engine issues for quite some time. Yes, they may be on a PC-only basis, but surely the engineers at SE could pull off more feats with the XBox 360 being their limiting factor instead of the PS2.

[Spider-Dan]

I think a lot of the people saying that they would quit if they couldn't stay on PS2 would have quite a different tune if Squenix's response was, "OK, feel free to stay on PS2... but while PC/X360 users get 100 inventory and 20-line macros and default drawdistance of 3 and new gear/WS/SC/zone graphics, PS2 users get... reskinned noct."

I don't have a problem with PS2 support, I have a problem with Squenix feeling the need to maintain a level playing field between PS2 and platforms with vastly superior hardware. If PS2 users are so adamant about their desire to NOT upgrade, then let them really see what the benefits of upgrading (and consequences of not upgrading) are, instead of artificially hiding the consequences by handcuffing PC/X360.

Of course PS2 players aren't going to agree to an upgrade when they have no idea of what they are missing. Rather than trying to brute force an upgrade, Squenix should simply make the PC/X360 versions so much better that the PS2 players WANT to migrate. Whenever a new feature comes out in PC/X360 FFXI that PS2 players cry about, all the devs have to say is "PS2 limitations" (which we all already know they are quite good at) and the crying is immediately cut off at the knees.

[Ashky]

It's already been said whats going to happen if they don't cut PS2 support: continued slow-bleed of players as SE continues to fail at meeting the playerbase's needs.

Read the thread before posting.

Hence why you, me, and everyone here keeps playing and the player base has remained roughly the same for a LONG time which they have said in many of these E3 interviews. Obviously they must be doing something right? Can you really expect a 5 year old game to be gaining subs as fast as WOW when FFXI is only liked by a certain number of people? Newsflash, 5 year old games ALWAYS lose subscribers. WoW may be the only game that ever proves this wrong, but it's only because they have gone pretty much global with it.


BTW, I did read the thread. It's just I disagree with your argument.

[Shade]

Games dont live forever you know... After a certain point it stops being a matter of "upgrade" to keep it current, and turns more into an overhaul. And imo, at this point, to bring FFXI up to a level where it actually utilized today's technology remotely efficiently (higher res character models, more/varied enemies, an indepth character creation system, hair/cloth effects, all thay yummy goodness.... they would probably have to rebuild the thing almost from scratch.

So while epic changes like that might be enough to convince PS2 players to make the switch... If SE is going to put that much effort into something, it makes more financial sense to put it into a NEW and shiny MMO, that will draw in old + new players both. A new game is exciting, it's like Christmas. New everything, untouched and waiting for you to explore and exploit. A slightly upgraded PC-only version of FFXI, with all the current baggage+established highlevel players, but w/ improved load times/inventory space/macros, isnt going to get people who quit to come back, it isn't going to draw people in from WoW, and it isn't going to tempt the interest of people who are looking for things to buy amongst the current gen of games. The only thing it's going to do is make a certain % of the current population of players (that are already giving SE their money) happier.

FFXI can be fun, but it doesn't really feel like it's in it's prime any more, and I think SE knows this.

[orson]

Either side of the fence you're on, it really doesn't matter. Dropping PS2 support at this time will not happen, it's about as likely as them raising the lvl cap. I'm pretty sure SE knows that the general chunk of the 500k players are staying with them at this point, apart from an average quit/renew rate which I'm guessing isn't fluctuating much. I really doubt that many people are quiting and the ones that are most likely aren't at such an alarming rate that SE is concerned about it. In my experience people I know have not quit because of limitations on the software (I don't even hear people complaining about it much except on BG) but more likely because they try something like WoW and prefer it or IRL they are busy and don't have time to play.

SE doesn't want to spend the resources retooling the game they said it themselves! They have many more products otw and they probably want to push them. It's really hard to know their business strategy. I heard a rumor that when FFXI for 360 was released that SE was contractually obligated to make ToAU and 2 other expansions, WoTG comes out fairly soon it's not inconceivable if that rumor is true then SE may be planning to release 1 final expansion over the next 2-3 yrs and then ride out the life of the game doing small updates and fixes.

From the beginning this has been a multi platform game SE likes having the intermix of languages and users being able to access the game in the different ways. I believe that was the goal they set out to achieve and they have done so and unless SE's business strategy changes I don't see them worrying as much about FFXI 2-3 yrs from now because they probably will want a lot of us playing their new games.

[aurik]

So while epic changes like that might be enough to convince PS2 players to make the switch... If SE is going to put that much effort into something, it makes more financial sense to put it into a NEW and shiny MMO, that will draw in old + new players both. A new game is exciting, it's like Christmas. New everything, untouched and waiting for you to explore and exploit. A slightly upgraded PC-only version of FFXI, with all the current baggage+established highlevel players, but w/ improved load times/inventory space/macros, isnt going to get people who quit to come back, it isn't going to draw people in from WoW, and it isn't going to tempt the interest of people who are looking for things to buy amongst the current gen of games. The only thing it's going to do is make a certain % of the current population of players (that are already giving SE their money) happier and therefore will stay longer and pay SE more money in the long term.

Fixed that for you.

Try reading the thread before posting next time because you just wasted a whole paragraph of your life when you could have just quoted someone back on page 3.

[aurik]

SE doesn't want to spend the resources retooling the game they said it themselves! They have many more products otw and they probably want to push them.

Already been mentioned and answered. It's really stupid of them to abort a profitable enterprise when they can just hire more people have 2 profitable enterprises.

From the beginning this has been a multi platform game

Wrong, answered this earlier, it started as a PS2 only game and morphed into a multi-platform game when it was apparent that PS2 online uptake in the US was tanking.


Try reading the thread before posting.

[Shade]

So while epic changes like that might be enough to convince PS2 players to make the switch... If SE is going to put that much effort into something, it makes more financial sense to put it into a NEW and shiny MMO, that will draw in old + new players both. A new game is exciting, it's like Christmas. New everything, untouched and waiting for you to explore and exploit. A slightly upgraded PC-only version of FFXI, with all the current baggage+established highlevel players, but w/ improved load times/inventory space/macros, isnt going to get people who quit to come back, it isn't going to draw people in from WoW, and it isn't going to tempt the interest of people who are looking for things to buy amongst the current gen of games. The only thing it's going to do is make a certain % of the current population of players (that are already giving SE their money) happier and therefore will stay longer and pay SE more money in the long term.

Fixed that for you.

Try reading the thread before posting next time because you just wasted a whole paragraph of your life when you could have just quoted someone back on page 3.

I did read the thread, thanks. You seem to have skipped over 90% of my post though I'm not sure why I expected anything else.

[aurik]

I read your post but again, at this point you're adding nothing to the discussion and just paraphrasing what's already been discussed. Next time you click the "add reply" button ask yourself, "am I adding something new to this thread?"

[Sho]

Hay guys, it's not that serious of an arguement, lol.

[Tormentormike]

I read your post but again, at this point you're adding nothing to the discussion and just paraphrasing what's already been discussed. Next time you click the "add reply" button ask yourself, "am I adding something new to this thread?"

How about next time you do the same, you get it through your head that SE wont ever take FFXI away from the people who play on PS2 and make them upgrade. Everytime you've posted, it's just been you expressing how butt hurt you are because you can't carry a few more items or make the game look more appealing to you.

[aurik]

I read your post but again, at this point you're adding nothing to the discussion and just paraphrasing what's already been discussed. Next time you click the "add reply" button ask yourself, "am I adding something new to this thread?"

How about next time you do the same, you get it through your head that SE wont ever take FFXI away from the people who play on PS2 and make them upgrade. Everytime you've posted, it's just been you expressing how butt hurt you are because you can't carry a few more items or make the game look more appealing to you.

Hey we have another winner of the retard award who can't separate the argument from the person. Now take your prize and gtfo.

[Tormentormike]

See, I could just F5 this thread like you keep doing to keep coming back at you with more pointless statements, but in the end it's just a waste of time. You're fighting for a lost cause, but hey, feel free to keep whining about it, I'm sure others are getting a good laugh too.