To harass PS2 users or not?

[fantasticdan]

Holding a button down to scroll necessarily lacks either precision or speed, and is still more work (both mental and physical) than pressing a single button which corresponds to the macro you want.

I think you are really over-exaggerating here. Finalwhatever has already mentioned this, but by the time you're JA/spell/whatever has gone off and your character is able to act again, you could have scrolled to the other side of the pallet. I've never had any trouble being able to stun or whatever on the fly with controller macros. It's not like I intentionally set important macros (like cure/stun/flash/whatever) on opposite sides of the same pallet anyway.

It is logically speaking, less work to do the same thing on keyboard, but I and I'm sure many others have grown up playing console games, with little PC gaming experience other than FFXI. I just feel way more comfortable with the controller. Could get used to keyboard sure, but I'm not having any problems with controller, so I don't care.

As for not wanting to switch to PC, I'm sure every explanation is been repeated in this thread by now. Kids/college students not having the expendable income to buy a new PC, wanting to relax and play in the living room without moving your computer around, whatever. Personally, I only play on PC because of the framerate issues and glitches on the 360 version, as well as windower macros I guess. If they implemented extended macros(or some kind of gear set macro thing, idc) and fixed those glaring fucking problems, I would just play on Xbox. But I have no faith that SE would update the 360 version if PS2 limitations are removed thou(if they even have anything to do with the macro line cap), just judging by what a shitty job they did with the port itself in the first place.

[Ploid]

Wow and now the debate is about Keyboard vs controller, and how choosing macros on controllers is worse than keyboard. Interesting. I'm sticking with controller on that one. Tried keyboard and it's not comfortable at all and didn't seem to let me "feel" more in control. I have no problems curing, refreshing, sa ws, ta ws, timing crap with the macros using the controller. I know exactly where my abilities/spells are and I'm most likely hovering over the spell ability before I can even cast/use it (due to a previous spell casting or the ability timer is down or I'm setting up something as a group situation). I never thought I was being at a disadvantage for using controller as far as choosing macros go. Thought I had a edge actually :\ You can imagine how hurt I feel now.

[Kazen]

Yeah this thread has become stale and stupid, it needs a lock. Its the same shit being said over and over.

[Zosi]

It is logically speaking, less work to do the same thing on keyboard, but I and I'm sure many others have grown up playing console games, with little PC gaming experience other than FFXI. I just feel way more comfortable with the controller. Could get used to keyboard sure, but I'm not having any problems with controller, so I don't care.

That's pretty much the core of the issue. Player skill (as it relates to the rest of FFXI) really doesn't have jack shit to do with it, people will use whatever they're most comfortable with.

[Lockecole]

I come back from 13 hours of work to Aurik pretty much owning everyone as usual. So many flaws in the arguments here, (i'm sorry but an inferior interface is an inferior interface...regardless of the "timing issues" in a game.) Not all macros are planned. Know why Avesta is so good in those fights? Because he's planned the fight out, probably done it dozens of times, and knows the exact actions and macros to use, because its all PLANNED OUT. Give him a keyboard and he'd probably do it even better (especially with windower macros.) It's situations like EXP parties where as a BRD you never know what to expect, and cant "hover" over a macro, or have the "most used" macros readily available in the Ctrl-1,2,3 Alt-1,2,3 spots. If you've ever played BRD in an exp party situation, you know 20 macros spots isnt even close to what you need on hand at all times.

I stated my current EXPERIENCE with a multitude of PC and PS2 players over the course of 5 years of playing this game. (probably something like 700 days playtime.) It wasn't a generalization of all players, just of those I had come across.

And to Faxanadu...lol.

[FinalJustice]

Know why Avesta is so good in those fights? Because he's planned the fight out, probably done it dozens of times, and knows the exact actions and macros to use, because its all PLANNED OUT.

Because NO one goes into a battle in FFXI with a battle plan. He also plans out ever possible action in the fight, he plans what moves the HNM will do, he plans on them resisting or not, he plans the dmg he takes..yea that's it. What makes you think no one else knows what actions to take, and what macro to use? If anything other people have LESS work to do then he does. Have you ever even solo'd on rdm??

Give him a keyboard and he'd have less work to do

Fix for accuracy. Unless the KB cuts out his casting times there's no basis that he would do a BETTER job of killing it on a KB.

It's situations like EXP parties where as a BRD you never know what to expect, and cant "hover" over a macro, or have the "most used" macros readily available in the Ctrl-1,2,3 Alt-1,2,3 spots. If you've ever played BRD in an exp party situation, you know 20 macros spots isnt even close to what you need on hand at all times.

The bards I get 24k exp/hr with would beg to differ with you.

[Ploid]

PS2 rdm in the tank party as a support role using the inferior controller.

RANDOM battle!!! Tiamat!

RDM: Ok it's tiamat.. wonder what subjob I have.

PLD: Refresh me sometime this week RDM.

RDM: Oh? Ok let me .. omg where is refresh. Hmm

BRD: Anybody going to sun that?

BLM3: RDM was up -_-

RDM: Sorry guys I'm playing on a controller. I can't keep up with thi

Nin: I need refresh for hate.

RDM: One sec I'm looking for refresh.

PLD: Phalanx would be super also. In fact no one in my party has refresh up. Kick this ps2 punk and get a PC rdm that don't use controllers and know how to handle random battles.

[FinalJustice]

ROTFLMAO

[Charismatic]

It's situations like EXP parties where as a BRD you never know what to expect, and cant "hover" over a macro, or have the "most used" macros readily available in the Ctrl-1,2,3 Alt-1,2,3 spots. If you've ever played BRD in an exp party situation, you know 20 macros spots isnt even close to what you need on hand at all times.

Oh god, I lol'd.
Hint: I have played BRD in exp party situations and what you said can't be done... is exactly what I do.

[Ploid]

I have so many macros for all of my jobs and use the macro pallet save feature in POL to it's limit (4 slots). Using only 3 macros each row to be "Ultra Fast!" seems like a joke. After so many levels of playing a job you pretty much get how to react and respond to "surprises". It don't take 3 seconds to have cure3 ready when someone a cure worthy amount of damage. It's the decision making process that cause delays. Refresh now, or cure 3 the drk first. Erase this dex down now, or haste the sam first. Most people demand refresh when you have 5 seconds til it's ready to be casted. Sure you can cast refresh, haste, regen (?I don't know how whms roll) everytime it's ready but sometimes you gotta decide if you can hold off refreshing that pld thats sitting at full mp since last refresh (limbus, sea farm, etc). Like the original complainer said, tanks have the most macro reaction intensive jobs. Mostly PLD/NIN. I'm no PLD/NIN and get to be lazy on rdm/nin so I can't imagine what they go through.

[Faxanadu]

I come back from 13 hours of work to Aurik pretty much owning everyone as usual. So many flaws in the arguments here, (i'm sorry but an inferior interface is an inferior interface...regardless of the "timing issues" in a game.) Not all macros are planned. Know why Avesta is so good in those fights? Because he's planned the fight out, probably done it dozens of times, and knows the exact actions and macros to use, because its all PLANNED OUT. Give him a keyboard and he'd probably do it even better (especially with windower macros.) It's situations like EXP parties where as a BRD you never know what to expect, and cant "hover" over a macro, or have the "most used" macros readily available in the Ctrl-1,2,3 Alt-1,2,3 spots. If you've ever played BRD in an exp party situation, you know 20 macros spots isnt even close to what you need on hand at all times.

every1 else already lol'd, so nuf said.

I stated my current EXPERIENCE with a multitude of PC and PS2 players over the course of 5 years of playing this game. (probably something like 700 days playtime.) It wasn't a generalization of all players, just of those I had come across.

And to Faxanadu...lol.

so every person you have ever met that plays the game on a PS2 is a shitty player?
be careful how you answer that...

[Amele]

(especially since many people who use PCs professionally can type in excess of 500 keystrokes per minute.)

Video or it didn't happen. 250 strokes per minute is already very fast.

/edit: nvm. I'm at almost 400 myself. Those numbers around 250 are probably from old typewriters. =)

yeah, keystrokes, not wpm. lol. I go at just over 100 wpm which is (5 x 100 -> 500+ keystrokes) I have to be careful which keyboards I buy since cheap ones can top out below there.

[Ryuho]

Thread Summary...
PC User - OMG. ps2 users should switch to PC so SE can drop ps2 support & we can get better graphics & more inventory slots.
PS2 User - I don't want to play on PC... I'm fine with my ps2.
PC User - OMG you guys should switch anyway, because the controller is nub. KB is like 37x faster. Like in FPS i can BOOM HEADSHOT people like dat, you can't.
PS2 User - I have no problems keeping up with KB users on my controller... It's really just a matter of preference.
PC User - Whatever I'm better.

Ok, you can lock now =p

[Amele]

Thread Summary...
PC User - OMG. ps2 users should switch to PC so SE can drop ps2 support & we can get better graphics & more inventory slots.
PS2 User - I don't want to play on PC... I'm fine with my ps2.
..9 pages of Aurik vs. the World..
PC User - OMG you guys should switch anyway, because the controller is nub. KB is like 37x faster. Like in FPS i can BOOM HEADSHOT people like dat, you can't.
PS2 User - I have no problems keeping up with KB users on my controller... It's really just a matter of preference.
PC User - Whatever I'm better.

Ok, you can lock now =p

fixed for you.

[Alisha]

i use 2 bars of macros for all my melee jobs.(i dont use 2 seperate bars for each melee job ,they all use the same 2!) my memory is to the point where i feel more comfortable doing most things manually and that way it isnt subject to macro lag. i didnt even have a WS macro until the maat fight and that was because nervousness/panic'ing was killing me. i also chi blast better by doing it manually instead of using macros. honestly i think this is a clash between console and pc gamers plain and simple. console gamers are more accustomed to dealing with poor interfaces and limited buttons. maat fight and temporary items is the only time i fumble with menu's. also in my opinion doing things manually makes things more engaging. mages however are a different story...trying to use the menu as blu/mage sub sucks bad...

[Amele]

i use 2 bars of macros for all my melee jobs.(i dont use 2 seperate bars for each melee job ,they all use the same 2!) my memory is to the point where i feel more comfortable doing most things manually and that way it isnt subject to macro lag. i didnt even have a WS macro until the maat fight and that was because nervousness/panic'ing was killing me. i also chi blast better by doing it manually instead of using macros. honestly i think this is a clash between console and pc gamers plain and simple. console gamers are more accustomed to dealing with poor interfaces and limited buttons. maat fight and temporary items is the only time i fumble with menu's. also in my opinion doing things manually makes things more engaging. mages however are a different story...trying to use the menu as blu/mage sub sucks bad...

my macros are mostly a mix of three things: equip swaps, actions I want to do compulsively (like provoke on paladin), and things that are impossible to type error-free while understress. (like Utsusemi: ichi)

all items I use from the menu, all spells I cast via text input (I main whitemage for most events), JA's that aren't compulsive (like defender or divine seal) are menu too.

[Lockecole]

so every person you have ever met that plays the game on a PS2 is a shitty player?
be careful how you answer that...

There were 2 people who used a PS2 in my LS back when I played, and were by far THE WORST players in the guild, one was only there because they were a female friend of a very good member. No, obviously I can't make the above statement, because I could have come across an incredibly good player and not known they were PS2. Off the top of my head, that never happened though, I wouldn't be so adamant about my situation if it had. Then again my measure of who's good and who isn't could be alot higher than yours. We had people on Siren who thought of themselves as "good" and were light years behind what our LS was doing at the time. About the only time I'd say a controller is the superior (yes, superior, not equal) is while dualboxing on a PC and PS2. I dualboxxed a RDM and mained a RDM on a PS2 for probably 3 years, while playing my main on a PC. So yes I've done all the above, and yes I was a console player (never played a PC game before FFXI) for my whole life beforehand. So if you think its lifetime preference, its not.

It's situations like EXP parties where as a BRD you never know what to expect, and cant "hover" over a macro, or have the "most used" macros readily available in the Ctrl-1,2,3 Alt-1,2,3 spots. If you've ever played BRD in an exp party situation, you know 20 macros spots isnt even close to what you need on hand at all times.

Oh god, I lol'd.
Hint: I have played BRD in exp party situations and what you said can't be done... is exactly what I do.

You use 6 macros as a BRD in a fast-paced merit party? Congratulations! You're a terrible BRD.

[FinalJustice]

Then why dont you list the functions of EACH of your 20+ brd macro's or gtfo.

[shihei]

everytime i have come across a horrid player they are on PC and are earthlings.
if 1 sucks they all must, RIGHT?

[solsovly]

Then why dont you list the functions of EACH of your 20+ brd macro's or gtfo.

I don't use 20 but I could easily see it.

I have macroed for songs
1) March
2) Minuet
3) Madrigal
4) Carnage Elegy
5) Ballad 1
6) Ballad 2
7) Finale
8) Foe Lullaby
9) Horde Lullaby
defensive subjob spells
10) Stoneskin/Utsusemi: Ichi
11) Blink/Utsusemi: Ni
/whm support ( I usually have a generic blank spot I edit for one of these but if you were really anal about it )
12) Paralyna
13) Silena
14) Erase
15) Cure III
16) Curaga II
Most people have Sneak/Invis macroed
17) sneak
18) Invisible
"Alternate" pulling spells incase elegy is down or you need claim
19) Battlefield Elegy/Threnody
20) whatever, mazurka, gearswap button?

Personally, I'm pretty lazy on subjob stuff outside of utsusemi. I mostly cast /whm spells from the menu and hit lullaby button for Apollo's, but if you were a dedicated bard, I could see it.
edit: if you were really a control freak you could probably add the second march song in somewhere too or another minuet. I generally just have 2 buttons for melees that I edit but generally leave march/minuet.