To harass PS2 users or not?

[shihei]

sneak invis macro= LOL

[Koyangi]

The Reason Locke and Aurik won this thread is because not only will they say their opinion on a matter, they'll back it up with proof. Everyone responding just responds with opinions with no proof, and then there's the guy who created a false dilemma which dragged topic on 4+ pages.

I'm sort of in the boat with Locke about playing most of my games with controller (console gamer), but I've played my fair share of games on the PC, and I can use the controller (and the new ergonimical? wii controller very well for its games because I learned how to). Yes I can play games that require a controller well, but I've also payed certain games with a KB I wish I had a controller for(hi2u Jumper 2; ; ), though ffxi definately wasn't 1 of them. I've also played this game on the PS2 and KB is by far situationally better, someone who hasn't or can't master a KB (they will see how much easier ffxi becomes), it would be far worth the gains we COULD see if ps2 support was dropped. And the wtf lazyboy argument is stupid, I could play on my pc with a KB in a lazyboy or on my bed just as fine, gtfo.

[shihei]

when did you become the judge of who won? and what exactly did they win other then a few more people who think they are asshats?

[Daak]

I don't normally post on BG but i figure i'd post on this(i play ps2 ) but btw Aurik you keep posting statistics about how SE would gain/lose money and how things would go down if ps2 was dropped but i see no proof at all and it really sounds like you're just talking out your ass.

[FinalJustice]

they'll back it up with proof.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cuXxoLSToj4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hkmn5VBL5LM& ... ed&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HJuAc4iInAw& ... ed&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEp9lO2nhFY

Enjoy

This argument wouldn't be taking place if ppl learned how to speak for themselves and not for everyone else. Again just because YOU can't do, doesn't mean someone else can't.

[aurik]

Sorry where have I posted unsubstantiated statistics that aren't widely accepted as truth? Please cite.

[Koyangi]

Every player who plays on ps2 is as skilled as Avesta? He's a far cry from most players in general pc or ps2. That doesn't necassarily solidify your argument. That's like saying a yugo can drive from new york to california, but a lexus will do a hell of a lot better job at it.

[Tajin]

I don't normally post on BG but i figure i'd post on this(i play ps2 ) but btw Aurik you keep posting statistics about how SE would gain/lose money and how things would go down if ps2 was dropped but i see no proof at all and it really sounds like you're just talking out your ass.

Oh boy...

Lets see:

1.- If people is truly madly deeply fan of this game (or anygame) they will probably follow suit to wherever the franchise goes, a good example of this phenomena is MGS4 which will no doubt boost PS3 sales if only for a small amount. People will buy a PS3 to play MGS4. Now, regardless of this fact. We cant be sure how many units will sell of if the game will rock. So far, so good?

2.- Despite the fact that MGS4 (will rock or not) its a risk Sony and Konami will take based solely on fanbase (well based on money and research actually) but is a risk nevertheless.

3.- The PS2 is dead, plain and simple; at the very least the Big model with HardDrive support is dead, this also is a fact.

4.- What aurik has been repeatin over and over and over and over, is that Developing for a dead console is just stagnating the franchise, instead of allowing it to evolve in the new market. Sooner or later all those PS2 will fail and the sales of said expansions will stop. At this point in time you are forced to keep developing for a console that is not evne on the market, because of all the limitations that you (speaking of SE) imposed on yourself.

5.- But at the same time you have already lost customers due to a) dead PS2, b) people tired of lolPS2 limitations c) The next big MMO.

Its up to SE when to axe the game, of if they are confident enough of their player base they will take the risk and improve the code for the new consoles.

There :D.

[Daak]

Sorry where have I posted unsubstantiated statistics that aren't widely accepted as truth? Please cite.

Anywhere where you said ps2 is a waste of money. SE would be loosing money if they decided to keep ps2 around, Ps2 users would benefit playing on PC or anything to that effect.

edit: and also you talk about the here and now not the over time bankruptcy(sp too lazy to look up) doesnt happen over night overtime the subscriptions that SE would inevitably lose from the ps2 users would add up. I don't see how you can argue that down

[The Blackrose]

*snip*

That's pretty much dead on what I could have wrote.

Seriously Daak, you have some fucking twisted logic.

[Daak]

I haven't really seen me trying to prove anything im kinda just asking for where you're finding all this out becasue i'd like to read up on it.. if that makes my logic twisted then sure

[Bakthi]

It was already mentioned that that it is less efficient to use multiple input devices when a single one will suffice, but yes I'm aware that a console player could just use a keyboard for everything. Which raises the question, why are they so opposed to moving to a PC platform in the first place?

A single input device isn't better than multiple devices if (total time required for a sequence of actions on device A) + (time required to move between device B and A) < (total time required for a sequence of actions on device B). Of course, there are questions of precision, individual familiarity with the interface, blah blah blah, and (as far as I'm aware) nobody has done any experiments trying to differentiate performance and precision for certain actions (like walking in FFXI) on a keyboard versus a controller. Or heck...if PC people are using a mouse for something, then you'd have to look at the time required to move from the keyboard to a mouse versus from a keyboard to a controller, and compare that with the accuracy/performance of certain actions with each, and bleeah. Like I said before, I don't think that's a worthwhile endeavor for FFXI >.> Especially when the player skill gap is so vast anyway. And as has been stated, the same physical interfaces are available on both PC and PS2, so...

As for the question of reluctance to move to a PC platform, I accept that my reasons, while valid for myself, are not shared by the vast majority of the planet (oh shit, that's the 3rd article that Linux has failed on the desktop this month; better reformat and quit my job). If the PS2 is all that's holding SE back from major FFXI improvements, and they're not just using it as an (albeit perhaps true!) excuse to not do stuff they don't feel like doing anyway, then I'd understand a move away from it, and I'd probably adjust my situation (if slightly grumpily) to stay with FFXI. Since I've determined I'll never allow myself to start another MMORPG again, I'm reluctant to part with this one.

[aurik]

Sorry where have I posted unsubstantiated statistics that aren't widely accepted as truth? Please cite.

Anywhere where you said ps2 is a waste of money. SE would be loosing money if they decided to keep ps2 around, Ps2 users would benefit playing on PC or anything to that effect.

edit: and also you talk about the here and now not the over time bankruptcy(sp too lazy to look up) doesnt happen over night overtime the subscriptions that SE would inevitably lose from the ps2 users would add up. I don't see how you can argue that down

That's not a citation.

[aurik]

It was already mentioned that that it is less efficient to use multiple input devices when a single one will suffice, but yes I'm aware that a console player could just use a keyboard for everything. Which raises the question, why are they so opposed to moving to a PC platform in the first place?

A single input device isn't better than multiple devices if (total time required for a sequence of actions on device A) + (time required to move between device B and A) < (total time required for a sequence of actions on device B).

Definition of suffice as used above is "to supply adequately", which basically is guaranteeing the outcome of the relationship you give.

[DuBbZ~]

You can buy refurbished PS2(fats and HDD) from Sony themselves. I had my first PS2 poop out on me last year. I sent into Sony to get fixed or replaced. Customer Support called me and said they would replace my old PS2 w/ a refurbished model for $70. So while Sony may not be mass producing and selling the HDD and PS2 fats, they still offer them to their PS2 base at reduced costs and warranty.

And it was said here several times. SE is currently working on a new MMO. As are a few other companies for PS3. The fact that FFXI while having a commited player base. FFXI is a dying game. The only thing people here should ask for and beg the SE gods for is the ability to transfer their characters in the event a new FF mmo is offered.

[FinalJustice]

they'll back it up with proof.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cuXxoLSToj4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hkmn5VBL5LM& ... ed&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HJuAc4iInAw& ... ed&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEp9lO2nhFY


Enjoy

This argument wouldn't be taking place if ppl learned how to speak for themselves and not for everyone else. Again just because YOU can't do, doesn't mean someone else can't.

It has nothing to do with being able to solo the shit Avesta does. Pay attention. Being able to fast scroll and being able to solo hnms have little to do with each other. That's a whole different statement.

[Tajin]

Are you... arguing with yourself? O.o

[FinalJustice]

Tajin check you PM

[Daak]

Aurik so you want me to go through the last 10 pages and quote every post you've posted that has a fact i'm not sure i agree with?

[aurik]

Cite a few examples of

Aurik you keep posting statistics

which are neither supported nor widely believed to be true.