To harass PS2 users or not?

[Kazen]

What about people with multiple people in the same household that play? Do you think they have a computer thats capable of running FFXI for each of them? ( As for the ones I know, no has been the case, so they used different alternatives hi2u PS2 because they already had them.)

A very small portion of the user base; and some of the households will make due with less playable devices or purchase more devices.

Pointing out rare counterexamples to "most everyone will have a computer already" is kinda fruitless because of the "most" word in there.

It might be "small" but its not rare, I know alot of people who have families like the one I described above. As well as I'm pretty sure SE would not want to make any "bad blood" so to speak with its current customer base, ya know with a new mmo coming up as well as a big lineup of new games. Basically its not a good idea from a business standpoint to slash away alot of your customers just to please a few who wont quit over the reason they would be cutting off the PS2 support anyways. So by keeping the PS2 support they wont lose any customers (If they would it would be a small % of the people like you which would be "rare").

[Daak]

Yea.. i use allakhazam all the time. And thanks for twisting my words, i'm pretty sure you knew what i meant but just wanted to be a dick about it.

Next time don't put words in my mouth and maybe I won't make a fool of you.

I'm failing to see how you made a fool out of me by calling me an allakhazam noob when you have no idea who i am in the first place. And also keep denying that your "Facts" about how SE would make more money or how Ps2 users would easily adapt.

[Charismatic]

But you do have at least one computer capable of running FFXI, thanks for proving my point. Just because you keep dinosaur boxes from 1995 around doesn't diminish the fact that the vast majority of internet-capable people who are savvy and wealthy enough to own a PS2 and pay a monthly fee probably have a PC from the last 4 years.

Too bad there's more to it than that.

There is nothing more to it then that, I made a generalization and I've given a very solid opinion as to why my generalization is very reasonable to believe.

Good luck with your crusade to point out the statistics I am pulling out of thin air.

There is more too it than that, read the rest of my post, the quoted example below what you quoted applies to me, so yeah... there is more to it.

[aurik]

Yea.. i use allakhazam all the time. And thanks for twisting my words, i'm pretty sure you knew what i meant but just wanted to be a dick about it.

Next time don't put words in my mouth and maybe I won't make a fool of you.

I'm failing to see how you made a fool out of me by calling me an allakhazam noob when you have no idea who i am in the first place. And also keep denying that your "Facts" about how SE would make more money or how Ps2 users would easily adapt.

Got those citations for me yet?

[Daak]

They're on the page before this one. The other guy who also thinks you're a little bit too easy on spewing out the facts posted them

[Vedder]

God damn people, read the shit Aurik posts before you argue with him. You're arguing about shit he didn't even say.

Then you act surprised when he's a prick to you.

[layoneil]

But you do have at least one computer capable of running FFXI, thanks for proving my point.

last i checked FFXI wasn't the most conducive to sharing, just because a household may have one doesn't mean it's suitable for people to play FFXI on.

the fact that the vast majority of internet-capable people who are savvy and wealthy enough to own a PS2 and pay a monthly fee probably have a PC from the last 4 years.

where is this fact from? specifically the Japanese population since that's a lot more important than people that you and i know.

[aurik]

But you do have at least one computer capable of running FFXI, thanks for proving my point.

last i checked FFXI wasn't the most conducive to sharing, just because a household may have one doesn't mean it's suitable for people to play FFXI on.

Still proved my point; despite playing on the PS2, he has a computer of which one is capable of running FFXI. If they decided not to release new content on the PS2, he could switch to PC if he wanted to continue to progress.

Given that he has not just 1 but 3 computers, I'd wager that scraping together cash to get a cheap second-hand PC to dedicate to FFXI would not be out of the picture either.

the fact that the vast majority of internet-capable people who are savvy and wealthy enough to own a PS2 and pay a monthly fee probably have a PC from the last 4 years.

where is this fact from? specifically the Japanese population since that's a lot more important than people that you and i know.

I'm saying that the fact "a vast majority ... have a [modern] PC" is probably true. Sorry if the wording is confusing here. I still think this is a reasonable guess. Wouldn't you agree it's reasonable?

I mean, it's gotta be pretty rare that a person pays for internet access, but the only device he has to utilize that is, of all things, a PS2 on which he plays a MMO. Then, the only question we have to ask is what share of those PCs are capable of FFXI. The real answer is impossible to know, but it's pretty clear that as time goes on this portion will grow, and I'd wager it's already the larger portion of the population.

[Faxanadu]

But you do have at least one computer capable of running FFXI, thanks for proving my point.

last i checked FFXI wasn't the most conducive to sharing, just because a household may have one doesn't mean it's suitable for people to play FFXI on.

Still proved my point; despite playing on the PS2, he has a computer of which one is capable of running FFXI. If they decided not to release new content on the PS2, he could switch to PC if he wanted to continue to progress.

Given that he has not just 1 but 3 computers, I'd wager that scraping together cash to get a cheap second-hand PC to dedicate to FFXI would not be out of the picture either.

the fact that the vast majority of internet-capable people who are savvy and wealthy enough to own a PS2 and pay a monthly fee probably have a PC from the last 4 years.

where is this fact from? specifically the Japanese population since that's a lot more important than people that you and i know.

I'm saying that the fact "a vast majority ... have a [modern] PC" is probably true. Sorry if the wording is confusing here. I still think this is a reasonable guess. Wouldn't you agree it's reasonable?

I mean, it's gotta be pretty rare that a person pays for internet access, but the only device he has to utilize that is, of all things, a PS2 on which he plays a MMO. Then, the only question we have to ask is what share of those PCs are capable of FFXI. The real answer is impossible to know, but it's pretty clear that as time goes on this portion will grow, and I'd wager it's already the larger portion of the population.

Me and my wife both play. Shes on the computer and im on the PS2 (with both use controlers btw)
So what am i supposed to do if they discontinue PS2 play? buy a $400 dollar computer and keep playing? no god dammit, i shouldn't have to do that and i won't do that. I'm not the only one with a special circumstance. In fact im willing to bet that almost every1 playing the game on the PS2 has a good substantial reason of why it is unfeasible or impossible to play on a PC.

The PS2 is not dead either (Odin Sphere any1?). go to Gamespot.com and look at the preview section.

[aurik]

Me and my wife both play. Shes on the computer and im on the PS2 (with both use controlers btw)
So what am i supposed to do if they discontinue PS2 play? buy a $400 dollar computer and keep playing? no god dammit, i shouldn't have to do that and i won't do that. I'm not the only one with a special circumstance. In fact im willing to bet that almost every1 playing the game on the PS2 has a good substantial reason of why it is unfeasible or impossible to play on a PC.

The PS2 is not dead either (Odin Sphere any1?). go to Gamespot.com and look at the preview section.

That's terrible news for you, but guess what: the march of progress is inexorable and will leave you behind if you don't keep up. FFXI development is hugely hindered by the PS2's year-2000 specs, and will either need to leave it behind or get left behind itself.

[Faxanadu]

That's terrible news for you, but guess what: the march of progress is inexorable and will leave you behind if you don't keep up. FFXI development is hugely hindered by the PS2's year-2000 specs, and will either need to leave it behind or get left behind itself.

It will be a sad, sad day when a major software developer hangs so many loyal fans out to dry.
I still don't think they will do it. Is there even any presidence for it?

[The Blackrose]

The PS2 is not dead either (Odin Sphere any1?). go to Gamespot.com and look at the preview section.

The PS2 may not be dead in the sense that it still has good games being released on them. But how many of them are taking advantage of the HDD/Internet Adaptor?

It might be better to argue this if in fact Sony had developed a well put together online strategy and made better use of the HDD during the days of the old PS2 (something which Microsoft does well with XBL) instead of flat out abandoning it when they released the slimmer version sometime later on. And even as we continue to argue the validity of the PS2, the older PS2 units that support the HDD are on the cusp of obsolescence. Yes, someone said you can get a refurbished PS2 from Sony for $70, but what happens when that stops as well?

This is an ultimatum that no one can choose but Square-Enix and Square-Enix themselves. Either they can let FFXI die with the PS2 or the PS2 can die without FFXI.

[Zhais]

That's terrible news for you, but guess what: the march of progress is inexorable and will leave you behind if you don't keep up. FFXI development is hugely hindered by the PS2's year-2000 specs, and will either need to leave it behind or get left behind itself.

It will be a sad, sad day when a major software developer hangs so many loyal fans out to dry.
I still don't think they will do it. Is there even any presidence for it?

*precedence and I believe that someone pointed out Everquest did something similar, forced new minimum requirements to play their game.

[solsovly]

Dark Age of Camelot / Ultima Online both had dual clients. One was an improved 3d client, the other the old graphic engine.

[The Blackrose]

That's terrible news for you, but guess what: the march of progress is inexorable and will leave you behind if you don't keep up. FFXI development is hugely hindered by the PS2's year-2000 specs, and will either need to leave it behind or get left behind itself.

It will be a sad, sad day when a major software developer hangs so many loyal fans out to dry.
I still don't think they will do it. Is there even any presidence for it?

*precedence and I believe that someone pointed out Everquest did something similar, forced new minimum requirements to play their game.

That was around the time the fourth expansion was released, and was primarily tied into the character models. Those were optional. Unless they've done something recently, thati s.

[Sorm]

That's terrible news for you, but guess what: the march of progress is inexorable and will leave you behind if you don't keep up. FFXI development is hugely hindered by the PS2's year-2000 specs, and will either need to leave it behind or get left behind itself.

It will be a sad, sad day when a major software developer hangs so many loyal fans out to dry.
I still don't think they will do it. Is there even any presidence for it?

No, because every software developer is smart enough to region/console lock their games. Phantasy Star Online: Dreamcast. Phantasy Star Universe: PC servers were separated from the X-Box and PS2 servers. World of Warcraft: PC exclusive, and the developers are quoted as saying they will never release it to a console, because as PCs evolve, they can keep changing their game, they didn't want to be limited by consoles. (What a silly idea!) Everquest, same thing, though I don't know much about it.

Then you have Square-Enix in their brilliant ploy to monopolize internet gaming with PlayOnline, so they tried to integrate the PS2 and PC games. And now, due to their brilliance, FFXI for the PC hogs my processor cycles, and doesn't support hardware acceleration. (Man, that GTX 8800 sure helped!...owait) And all they had to do was lock the ps2 users on a separate server from the PC users.

[layoneil]

Still proved my point; despite playing on the PS2, he has a computer of which one is capable of running FFXI. If they decided not to release new content on the PS2, he could switch to PC if he wanted to continue to progress.

Given that he has not just 1 but 3 computers, I'd wager that scraping together cash to get a cheap second-hand PC to dedicate to FFXI would not be out of the picture either.

still missing the point. having to share means it's possible that he couldn't.

and someone being able to scrap together the cash doesn't mean they are going to do it. if it was me i wouldn't do it. similarly if i was for some reason banned i wouldn't start over, i wouldn't buy an account to play. i certainly could do either of those things, especially the latter (since i can afford it), but i wouldn't.

i have no reason to believe that it's a minority mentality. i have a hard time believing that the majority of PS2 players being Japanese, who have huge cultural emphasis on respect would take kindly to being disrespected.

I'm saying that the fact "a vast majority ... have a [modern] PC" is probably true. Sorry if the wording is confusing here. I still think this is a reasonable guess. Wouldn't you agree it's reasonable?

I mean, it's gotta be pretty rare that a person pays for internet access, but the only device he has to utilize that is, of all things, a PS2 on which he plays a MMO.

it's a reasonable guess that if all these people had modern PCs and that it was desirable for them to be playing on those modern PCs they would already be doing it. i mean, it's gotta be pretty rare that a person buys a gaming quality machine to not use it for a game he spends dozens of hours a month playing.

whatever reasons they are not already playing on PC now is the same reason they likely would quit the game over. and without statistics to show that this group of players is really small (which i don't think they are), your other reasonable guesses don't mean too much.

[Bakthi]

It was already mentioned that that it is less efficient to use multiple input devices when a single one will suffice, but yes I'm aware that a console player could just use a keyboard for everything. Which raises the question, why are they so opposed to moving to a PC platform in the first place?

A single input device isn't better than multiple devices if (total time required for a sequence of actions on device A) + (time required to move between device B and A) < (total time required for a sequence of actions on device B).

Definition of suffice as used above is "to supply adequately", which basically is guaranteeing the outcome of the relationship you give.

I can't agree that "adequate" can be used to support "more efficient", in general terms. As an example, browsing these forums with w3m would be adequate, and require only one input device. However, I can do it much faster using Mozilla and two input devices. I mean, even these cracked-out FPS folks use a keyboard-mouse combo, I believe? There are some tasks for which a second input device is so much more efficient than the first that the (quantifiable and non-gigantic) time required to switch/partially switch between devices is eclipsed. I guess I just don't think "suffice" is strong enough if you're trying to argue that keyboard-only play can match keyboard+analog_input_thinger_of_choice. Sorry if I seem too pedantic; I'm going to blame my job.

But I'm also more than willing to buy that in the case of FFXI, a lot can be put down to interface familiarity and at least half a dozen other factors. Plus, I think you agree that it's not really a factor in the original question anyway.

(Largely irrelevant curiosity: do you play FFXI with 100% keyboard?)

[Ryko]

(Largely irrelevant curiosity: do you play FFXI with 100% keyboard?)

I did for about 3 and some odd years, only time I don't is when trying to tank in aery so I can cycle through the alliance list for cure bombing more effectively.

[Kazen]

(Largely irrelevant curiosity: do you play FFXI with 100% keyboard?)

I did for about 3 and some odd years, only time I don't is when trying to tank in aery so I can cycle through the alliance list for cure bombing more effectively.

I love using the controller for this reason.