To harass PS2 users or not?

[Charismatic]

Did you ever consider that not all PS2 players do have a PC or are willing to spend an extra 400 or more dollars on a PC? Or maybe they do have one, but more than one person in the household plays. (One on PC and the other on PS2, oooops, both can't play at the same time anymore!)

I know I wouldn't spend an extra 400 bucks to play the SAME FUCKING GAME I'm already playing.

I didn't even spend 5 seconds thinking about that and I came up with two situations in which your scenario would cost SE some cash. There's plenty more I'm sure.

Plus, they have already said they aren't doing it.

[Kazen]

A member of BG has there mom, dad, brother, sister, and her play. That would be 5 PC's they would need, but they have 2 PC's and 3 Ps2's because the ps2's are cheaper.

[GraveRobberX]

They will never drop ps2, too many JPs play on it and will most likely not buy a decent computer just to play it.

Thanks for repeating yourself? Here, let me follow suit and repeat my rebuttals:

You don't know how many JPs play on it, and the PS2 marketshare is already dying, since the device is no longer in production. Most JPs that do play on PS2 probably already have a computer that can play it, so if they couldn't get an expansion for the PS2 and could easily migrate to PC, they would.

Why are you making ASSumptions. You took someone elses assumptions and opinons and convoluted them to your own assumptions. Unless you have credible findings stating PS2 users are dwindling on an epic level and JP players are begging SE for a PS2 => PC upgrade it isnt going to happen.
You do realize the PS2 is still kicking, games are still being made for a system 7 years since it came out, and most companies will still make PS2 games (be it ports, garbage bin games,etc.) until Sony goes, since "such and such date" no more PS2 production.

Why are you trying to force people to change there view of how they like to play the game
As you stated the if you dont like it, dont play it has been ran around the block many times, so has the term been stated of upgrade everything in FFXI and drop PS2

All you are doing is arguing over misnomers about visual/gameplay upgrade which you want (some others also), but it isnt the major complaint SE deals with their playerbase

Most of the playerbase complains for fixing of the 3 kings, loot drop, NM/HNM's, end game content, lolAV, and etc.
Do you really think SE is going hey, we should ditch what we created the FFXI game around (PS2), cause as you can see superior technology has come out, and it would be beneficial to some players to see there SH+1 or Kirins Osode in 720pHD and make it have bloom/lens flare effects going off after you enter/exit any/every zone
As I stated to do anything radical it will cost either the company money, the customer money, or hell both the customer + company money just to do this so called upgrade

[Royal]

Did you ever consider that not all PS2 players do have a PC or are willing to spend an extra 400 or more dollars on a PC? Or maybe they do have one, but more than one person in the household plays. (One on PC and the other on PS2, oooops, both can't play at the same time anymore!)

I know I wouldn't spend an extra 400 bucks to play the SAME FUCKING GAME I'm already playing.

I didn't even spend 5 seconds thinking about that and I came up with two situations in which your scenario would cost SE some cash. There's plenty more I'm sure.

Plus, they have already said they aren't doing it.

Of course he will just argue that is the same point we have been making the entire time. We may keep repeating it but you really can't say its a bad reason. Also, if they got rid of ps2 limitations, wouldn't that $400 pc just because useless when they upgrade the graphics?

[aurik]

Did you ever consider that not all PS2 players do have a PC or are willing to spend an extra 400 or more dollars on a PC? Or maybe they do have one, but more than one person in the household plays. (One on PC and the other on PS2, oooops, both can't play at the same time anymore!)

I didn't even spend 5 seconds thinking about that and I came up with two situations in which your scenario would cost SE some cash. There's plenty more I'm sure.

Plus, they have already said they aren't doing it.

Have you read the thread? I've already covered this:

Just because SE loses some subscribers doesn't mean they lost money. Sure, they'll lose some subscribers. They'll also save a whole bunch of money on development costs, and they will also lengthen and strengthen the subscribership of their PC base as they can deliver much more timely and apt service.

[Tythera]

They will never drop ps2, too many JPs play on it and will most likely not buy a decent computer just to play it.

Thanks for repeating yourself? Here, let me follow suit and repeat my rebuttals:

You don't know how many JPs play on it, and the PS2 marketshare is already dying, since the device is no longer in production. Most JPs that do play on PS2 probably already have a computer that can play it, so if they couldn't get an expansion for the PS2 and could easily migrate to PC, they would.

Why are you making ASSumptions. You took someone elses assumptions and opinons and convoluted them to your own assumptions. Unless you have credible findings stating PS2 users are dwindling on an epic level and JP players are begging SE for a PS2 => PC upgrade it isnt going to happen.
You do realize the PS2 is still kicking, games are still being made for a system 7 years since it came out, and most companies will still make PS2 games (be it ports, garbage bin games,etc.) until Sony goes, since "such and such date" no more PS2 production.

Why are you trying to force people to change there view of how they like to play the game
As you stated the if you dont like it, dont play it has been ran around the block many times, so has the term been stated of upgrade everything in FFXI and drop PS2

All you are doing is arguing over misnomers about visual/gameplay upgrade which you want (some others also), but it isnt the major complaint SE deals with their playerbase

Most of the playerbase complains for fixing of the 3 kings, loot drop, NM/HNM's, end game content, lolAV, and etc.
Do you really think SE is going hey, we should ditch what we created the FFXI game around (PS2), cause as you can see superior technology has come out, and it would be beneficial to some players to see there SH+1 or Kirins Osode in 720pHD and make it have bloom/lens flare effects going off after you enter/exit any/every zone
As I stated to do anything radical it will cost either the company money, the customer money, or hell both the customer + company money just to do this so called upgrade

You do realize that PS2s with the hard drive are no longer in production right? So as far as that goes, there will never be any new PS2 subscribers (except maybe a few people who buy used ones), the PS2 user count can only go down. Even if it was only a slight decline in users over time the fact you never get any new ones on that platform will lead to a point where it's just not worth it to keep supporting said system. Personally, I don't think that point will be reached this year but it could happen by the end of 2008.

[aurik]

A member of BG has there mom, dad, brother, sister, and her play. That would be 5 PC's they would need, but they have 2 PC's and 3 Ps2's because the ps2's are cheaper.

Cheaper than a brand new PC that's capable of far more than just playing games? Yes. But not that much cheaper, and again just because they lose a few subscribers doesn't mean they lose money overall.

[aurik]

Did you ever consider that not all PS2 players do have a PC or are willing to spend an extra 400 or more dollars on a PC? Or maybe they do have one, but more than one person in the household plays. (One on PC and the other on PS2, oooops, both can't play at the same time anymore!)

I know I wouldn't spend an extra 400 bucks to play the SAME FUCKING GAME I'm already playing.

I didn't even spend 5 seconds thinking about that and I came up with two situations in which your scenario would cost SE some cash. There's plenty more I'm sure.

Plus, they have already said they aren't doing it.

Of course he will just argue that is the same point we have been making the entire time. We may keep repeating it but you really can't say its a bad reason. Also, if they got rid of ps2 limitations, wouldn't that $400 pc just because useless when they upgrade the graphics?

Nope, because a $400 pc can still run the original scaled-down graphics, but can easily take advantage of having more than 32MB of ram.

[Kazen]

Yes because with 2 PC's already they soooooo need 3 more dont they? Tell me how getting old PS2's for under $100 is more expensive than a new PC.

[aurik]

Yes because with 2 PC's already they soooooo need 3 more dont they? Tell me how getting old PS2's for under $100 is more expensive than a new PC.

Did I say PS2s were more expensive than a new PC? I don't think I did, and I really hate it when people misquote me.

Old PS2s have a short lifespan and are getting scarcer every day since they are no longer in production. And don't forget, you still need to buy the hard drive attachment, and those are no longer in production either so god help you if yours fails.

[Keyln]

From day 1, FFXI was designed around the idea that PS2, PC, and later, 360 users could play together in the same world. This has been part of the design philosophy for SE in making this game, and it continues to be the design philosophy today. If something can't be done on the PS2, it won't happen on the PC or 360.

The only real way of cutting off PS2 support would be to kill off the FFXI service entirely, rebuild a new FFXI engine, and allow players to port their characters over to the new FFXI engine and FFXI servers.

Actually from day 1 it was a PS2-only game. It wasn't until they started considering markets abroad that they built and Xbox (original) port--most US PS2s don't have the HD/ethernet attachment and the bundling of the HD+ethernet was seen as a big risk because of the large pricetag. After they failed to come to terms with Microsoft over the XBL service (which is required for XB games to use the online connectivity) they ported the engine to PC.

Since then they've been reluctant to actually branch the codebase, as working with multiple forks is a pain in the ass.

As the PS2 population continues to decline and the game becomes more and more complex, the cost for supporting the PS2 versus the reward for supporting the PS2 will become more and more lopsided to the point where it would be best to just end PS2 development altogether. The ideal time to do this would be during an expansion release, to encourage PS2 migration to more powerful platforms, and to take advantage of (among other factors) the economy of scale since the company will already be shipping products to stores at the time, and can ship a "migration kit" for PS2 owners.

Still doesn't change the fact that the game was designed to play on multiple platforms. It also doesn't change the fact that these multiple platforms were meant to play on the same worlds, so that people who played on PC, PS2, and 360 can all play on the same world. At the time that FFXI was released, this was unheard of, and it was a selling point of FFXI. I remember watching the trailer at E3 2002, and that was one of the main ideas of FFXI.

To drop PS2 support would require a massive rework of the FFXI engine, new servers, and shipping out DVDs of the new engine for current players. It would require massive resources to completely drop PS2 support. Just providing an expansion with an incentive isn't going to cut it.

It's really not as simple as making an expansion that would not support the PS2, as there would still be plenty of people who would continue playing PS2 on endgame events (and there are plenty of endgame events to play on nowadays).

And I would like to point out that FFXI can play on the PS3 now as a PS2 port. Thus, the amount of hardware that can play PS2 FFXI is actually growing now. I actually know people who play FFXI on the PS3.

[Kazen]

My day of release ps2 still works like new, and as for the new PS2 hard drive, theres always ebay if one would happen to go out.

Sup $9.95, system plus hard drive and game. (Notice the 100% positive feed back + 488 sells, so hard huh)

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLAYSTATION-2-W-40G ... dZViewItem

[GraveRobberX]

Did you ever consider that not all PS2 players do have a PC or are willing to spend an extra 400 or more dollars on a PC? Or maybe they do have one, but more than one person in the household plays. (One on PC and the other on PS2, oooops, both can't play at the same time anymore!)

I didn't even spend 5 seconds thinking about that and I came up with two situations in which your scenario would cost SE some cash. There's plenty more I'm sure.

Plus, they have already said they aren't doing it.

Have you read the thread? I've already covered this:

Just because SE loses some subscribers doesn't mean they lost money. Sure, they'll lose some subscribers. They'll also save a whole bunch of money on development costs, and they will also lengthen and strengthen the subscribership of their PC base as they can deliver much more timely and apt service.

From your signature I can see you have put some great time and effort into becoming what you are in FFXI
For however many years you have played this game (game was released in JP in 2002, so 5 years for that) and all the things you have gone through, you want something new to be replaced with the old, but the content remain the same, do you realize how much of an ironic thinking that is.

Also as I can see by you signature/post record that you are in tune with ffxi, and mostly know all the knowings that surrond this MMORPG and its company, including that SE is working on a new MMO project which has taken up their time

(If WoW can get 8+million people to play on there graphic standards (not knocking it), some old-school MMO still going strong (ala DiabloI-II/Everquest I-II/etc) that arent even up to what FFXI holds as it standards (lolPS2), and people still play those, cause they enjoy them for what they are)

[Royal]

Yes because with 2 PC's already they soooooo need 3 more dont they? Tell me how getting old PS2's for under $100 is more expensive than a new PC.

Did I say PS2s were more expensive than a new PC? I don't think I did, and I really hate it when people misquote me.

Old PS2s have a short lifespan and are getting scarcer every day since they are no longer in production. And don't forget, you still need to buy the hard drive attachment, and those are no longer in production either so god help you if yours fails.

Short lifespan? Maybe if you treat yours like shit. I've had mine since it came out and no problems with it at all. Left it on an its fine. I don't know what you people have been doing to yours. No longer in production? I see them at Best Buy everytime I go there.

P.S stop fucking posting people, it keeps taking me to the "At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

[Royal]

(If WoW can get 8+million people to play on there graphic standards (not knocking it), some old-school MMO still going strong (ala DiabloI-II/Everquest I-II/etc) that arent even up to what FFXI holds as it standards (lolPS2), and people still play those, cause they enjoy them for what they are)

Quoted for fucking truth wow.

[Tythera]

You see PS2s with hard drives for sale at retail? Must be backstock from forever ago when they stopped producing them

[Royal]

You see PS2s with hard drives for sale at retail? Must be backstock from forever ago when they stopped producing them

Might be, never see anyone from new mexico on ffxi

[aurik]

Still doesn't change the fact that the game was designed to play on multiple platforms.

False, it was retrofitted to play on multiple platforms (see also: why does the performance on PC suck with equivalent hardware)

It also doesn't change the fact that these multiple platforms were meant to play on the same worlds, so that people who played on PC, PS2, and 360 can all play on the same world. At the time that FFXI was released, this was unheard of, and it was a selling point of FFXI. I remember watching the trailer at E3 2002, and that was one of the main ideas of FFXI.

That's what the marketing people said, lol, not what really happened.

To drop PS2 support would require a massive rework of the FFXI engine, new servers, and shipping out DVDs of the new engine for current players. It would require massive resources to completely drop PS2 support. Just providing an expansion with an incentive isn't going to cut it.

False, false, false.

It would be pretty easy to drop PS2 support. Just stop them from logging into any account which has WotG activated, done. No reworking of the engine required.

It would not require new servers.

It would not require shipping out DVDs of the new engine. They already have a (really shitty) digital distribution system through the POL client.

It's really not as simple as making an expansion that would not support the PS2, as there would still be plenty of people who would continue playing PS2 on endgame events (and there are plenty of endgame events to play on nowadays).

Actually, it is that simple as I said above. Part of the poison-pill of using the "upgrade-to-PC" package would be that any accounts upgraded would no longer be accessable on a PS2.

And I would like to point out that FFXI can play on the PS3 now as a PS2 port. Thus, the amount of hardware that can play PS2 FFXI is actually growing now. I actually know people who play FFXI on the PS3.

Anyone who plays FFXI on the PS3 at this stage probably already has, or otherwise can afford a PC that can play the game.

[Hitoshura]

SE will most likely not cut PS2 support. They would have said so by now with this new expansion release. Until the day that Sony announces that they will no longer be making new SKU's for PS2, FFXI will still be running on where it started. I like FFXI just the way it is right now.

Question Aurik, what is so vital to your needs that requires a whole different branch of players to be cut off?

[Charismatic]

And I would like to point out that FFXI can play on the PS3 now as a PS2 port. Thus, the amount of hardware that can play PS2 FFXI is actually growing now. I actually know people who play FFXI on the PS3.

Anyone who plays FFXI on the PS3 at this stage probably already has, or otherwise can afford a PC that can play the game.[/quote]
And they should have to because you said so? SE isn't even thinking of doing this.