To harass PS2 users or not?

[Shuvo]

Fat PS2 has been stopped for a long long time. New thin PS2s don't support the HD attachment.

Valid point, but couldn't they just stick the hdd in an enclosure and connect it via usb? A dedicated ps2 user would probably go with that option instead, if it came down to it.. would still be a few years away before that's necessary, though.

Yes, I'm aware that an enclosure will cost about the same as a ps2controller->usb convertor. But when it comes down to preference they would go with the former.

That's a pretty retarded line of argument.

Not really.

No, but they might hold onto a large portion of their subscriber base for longer, and they will save a lot of development time.

They 'might' also lose half their customers.

You can't gauge support for PS2 because a few PS2 players are acting like I kicked their dog by suggesting that it makes sense for SE to kill off their platform of choice.

You'd get the same response on any forum with ps2 players. Go start a thread on it on KI or something and you'll see.

[Leroy]

As a PS2 user myself, I say drop support for it. Seriously, it holds the game back more than anything. Hell, they no longer support the HDD, make fat PS2s, or sell/produce copies of FFXI for PS2 (Aside from ToAU expansion disks).

I'm far from wealthy, currently I average under $20k a year and am going back for my high school diploma after dropping out last year. If SE said they were dropping support for PS2 in the start of 2008, my ass would be outside picking up cans for some money son.

[aurik]

It is not worth SE's time and rescources to drop the PS2 and upgrade the equipment from any point of view with a new mmorpg. It just doesn't make sense financial and I really can't see how Aurik can't comprehend it. To everyone else if you keep argueing about this against aurik he'll just keep bitching and dumb you down to his level on the matter. Also last post on the matter because all this thread is people saying to aurik that SE will lose money on this and then aurik saying WHO CARES ABOUT THAT I WANT STUFF!

You win the retard of the week award, now take your prize and gtfo.

[fussel]

Valid point, but couldn't they just stick the hdd in an enclosure and connect it via usb? A dedicated ps2 user would probably go with that option instead, if it came down to it.. would still be a few years away before that's necessary, though.

PS2 USB is USB 1.1 onry = slow. See also: hdloader vs. usbadvance. A NAS-HD on ethernet would be faster, but more expensive.

Also, the PS2s firmware can probably not boot from USB, so you would need a special boot-CD. You need the official Sony HD to boot POL directly from HD.

At last, an IDE-HD can be added to slim PS2s, but that's the opposite of plug'n'play, soldering required and it won't fit in the case.

[aurik]

Fat PS2 has been stopped for a long long time. New thin PS2s don't support the HD attachment.

Valid point, but couldn't they just stick the hdd in an enclosure and connect it via usb? A dedicated ps2 user would probably go with that option instead, if it came down to it.. would still be a few years away before that's necessary, though.

Yes, I'm aware that an enclosure will cost about the same as a ps2controller->usb convertor. But when it comes down to preference they would go with the former.

Nope. New PS2 does not support HD, this was a design choice by Sony. Doubt you'd see anyone willing to sink 100k designing a new peripheral for PS2, let alone for a single game.

[quote:83d80]That's a pretty retarded line of argument.

Not really.
[/quote:83d80]
Actually it is, unless you wanna say anyone here that earns less than $x is not qualified to post.

[quote:83d80]No, but they might hold onto a large portion of their subscriber base for longer, and they will save a lot of development time.

They 'might' also lose half their customers.[/quote:83d80]
You have any reason to believe that, or are you just going to make assertions without backing it up? Because I've clearly explained why I think the amount of people they actually would lose assuming they do the conversion properly would be minimal at best.

[quote:83d80]You can't gauge support for PS2 because a few PS2 players are acting like I kicked their dog by suggesting that it makes sense for SE to kill off their platform of choice.

You'd get the same response on any forum with ps2 players. Go start a thread on it on KI or something and you'll see.[/quote:83d80]

Wow really? I bet I'd get a great reception at a NAACP convention suggesting the return of jim crow laws too, huh.

[Kriz]

I've been a PS2 player for most of FFXI, and man I feel it is time to drop it. Even though I still use the PS2 for 90% of my time.

My old rationale was that, as a Mac user, the PS2 was the only way to play FFXI. Now, with a newer Intel Mac, I can switch to Windows and play. I'm hoping the day will come soon that I can use the software to use Windows apps natively on the Mac side and that it can handle FFXI as well.

I'd like to think a lot of people upgraded from PS2 to Xbox 360 as well, lord knows someday I may get one to move off PS2.

I feel that WoG should come with two DVDs. PC and PS2, and try to encorage switching. Of course, they should through more dev into the PC version, before I had my ATI-based Mac, an old Nvidia PC I had made FFXI like carving my eyes out whenever a Bard came by...

[Ploid]

Btw: You can use just about any standard desktop HDD unless it's not less than 40gigs. You'll need the side guide and lock fixture but i'm sure you can just sit it off in the bay with no worry if you don't move the ps2 around while playing.

SE needs to drop ffxi and make a bigger, more diverse FFXI for PC only. Sooner or later 360 and PS3 will hold it back. This FFXI won't have loading, no blinking when changing armor (you pull them off and put them on with fluid animation), and unlimited storage space/macro lines. Self shadowing, HDR lighting, and all the other 3 letter accronyms that have to do with lighting should be in this. FFx8 AA no jaggy around the edges. Destructable terrain for geomancers and titan to throw around. The ability to swim and have battles in and under water is needed. Characters need to be able to fly among other things.

The current engine isn't good enough. They have to start over. Draw up high definition textures, redo the polygon mesh, redesign all the armor, characters, and spells

[Tomiko]

Rather than reply to various quotes, I'll reply to two and touch on points that came up.

fucking ps2 players i hope their ps2 explodes one day and then they realize the folly in their ways fucking faggots

y fren y?

I wish I could play FFXI on my Wii

I wish that was possible too. I was thinking that they could just use the classic controller for controls until I saw the vid that was posted.

Things that were mentioned:

Inventory: Do you seriously think giving people 80 inventory (up from 60) will cause them to stop bitching? ToAU gave everyone +80 (Locker Storage) from the previous amount (80/80/60) and people still bitch. Using this as an excuse is bullshit since there will always be complaints. And another thing to consider regarding this is Mule accounts. If you need have to buy another mule for storage, that's another $1 in SE's pocket. I don't see why they couldn't just add another storage feature like they did with Mog Lockers.

Conversion: I have a few friends in game who don't have PC access and play on PS2, so chances are high that they might not make the conversion and quit completely. Maybe they'd return in the future if they got a computer, but chances are they'd just move on. If I was forced to make the switch, I'd most likely sell my character. Why should I continue to support SE if they won't support the system that got me into the game? Not like I couldn't go spend my money elsewhere.

Graphics: Even if they did cut PS2 support and made new graphics, I'd be willing to bet there would still be players using graphic mods. And if that's the case, what was the point of even making new graphic models? Also, in a recent interview, didn't SE state that the reason there aren't new Character models due to the fact that they would have to go back and do graphic changes to armor or something? I don't seem to recall seeing anything about PS2 limitations there, but rather "we're too lazy and don't feel like it."

Shinies: This mainly fits with graphics, but who cares how shiny something is if the item is shit? Hi2u New Abjs. Hi2u Khimaira/Hydra synth items. Yes they did add some nice things, but they added alot of total shit. And that's not the fault of PS2 limitations, it's laziness on the part of the development team*. Not too hard to choose some random piece of armor and slap on some additional stat (Khimaira/Hydra armor).

Apps: Since TP seems to be one that gets brought up regularly, is it really that hard to make a TP macro and hit it every so often? What about things like Dynamis where there's more than 1 alliance? The LS I'm in uses skillchains in Dynamis Xarc on the NMs to kill them faster and we still have people say their TP (or Skillchain coming) on Linkshell or Vent simply because not everyone can see their TP.

The Macro lines App or whatever is one thing that I can fully support since it's something you can't really get elsewhere without taking up multiple macro buttons.

Vent: Since this is more of a PC feature, I guess I'll mention it. It's very nice to have for events, but can PS3 and 360 users also use it?

"Fat" PS2: There's no denying it, these are becoming more and mroe scarce, so that's a big thing against PS2 support. However, places like Gamestop/EBGames sell refurbished PS2s, so they're still out there.

PS2 Support: It's obvious that support for the PS2 players is in fact slowing down. If you don't think so, just think back to CoP and ToAU releases. I know I had a rather difficult time hunting down the Expansion Discs locally, when I got ToAU it was even the only/last one they had and I got it from a game retailer.

Conclusionish thing: Do I want them to discontinue support for the PS2? No. Do I think they should for the rest of the players? No. Will it eventually happen? No doubt. When it does though, I hope that rather than forcing people to "upgrade", they offer up one or two of the current servers as "PS2 Only" servers, similar to what Aurik said about WotG being Non-PS2 only. This way PS2 players would still have a place to play (granted it may be limited to what the rest get to do), but it's better than being forced out. And granted in time maybe they'll upgrade and join the majority in the "non-PS2 world" of FFXI.

For the record, I've played on PS2 since day 1. I have a PC, but (FFXI related) I only use it to look up sites and for Ventrilo. I've considered trying FFXI on it, but that interest is low because I don't like keyboard controls and see no point of having to buy additional items to accomplish what I can already do now. Having 2 seperate accounts and being able to PL myself is one of the main things that interested me in the PC version.

Wall-o-text dun

Edit: Added Source

*RPGFan Interview:

But more than the memory issue, probably the biggest problem with adding new hairstyles or races or face types, we would have to go back and [re-model] those pieces for this type of hair, and do that for the thousands of models of armor. That's probably the biggest thing, there's just not the time and manpower to do that.

So I stand corrected on PS2 limitations not being a factor at all. But they admit that's only a minor issue.

[Ploid]

You basicly need SE to redo everything pretty much. They might as well make sure it's never able to get old, but that's kinda impossible. Games age, to give it another facelift require lots of money. Unless in ffxi's case a face lift = higher framerate, longer draw distance, same textures, same animations, same maps + zoning. No voice for characters and cutscenes, nothing much different other than the slots, storage space, and less lag(?).

(I couldn't add this in the previous post. Posting from PS3. Text box limitation ><)

[Tomiko]

(I couldn't add this in the previous post. Posting from PS3. Text box limitation ><)

So much for the PS3 upgrade then if there's already PS3 limitations

PC & 360 onry I guess.

[Koyangi]

What bewilders me is how "25%" of the user base on ps2, doesn't own a decent enough PC to run this game in the 1st place. A computer twice as good as a ps2(at least) and probably 1/4th the price of a PC right now, which is an easy $200-300 is so easy to get, and If you're posting on BG right now, there's a 99.99% chance you already have 1.

[Tomiko]

and If you're posting on BG right now, there's a 99.99% chance you already have 1.

I'm at work.

[Ploid]

My reason is I don't like sitting at PCs much. I only use for printing, word processing, and photo editing. Everyone use cell phones, and other gadgets to access the internet. PCs are getting played out soon. Mark my words. Also flying cars are right around the corner.

[Alisha]

(I couldn't add this in the previous post. Posting from PS3. Text box limitation ><)

So much for the PS3 upgrade then if there's already PS3 limitations

PC & 360 onry I guess.

but the 360 version is worse than the ps2 version imo. it looks shiny but it takes forever to load zones. im curious how it will work with the expansion since it loads data off the disc.

[Spungy]

Yeah, screw you. I play on PC 90% of the time, but I have a PS2 and 13" TV shoved in a rack in the server room at work.

[Lordwafik]

Harass them? No. Be annoyed at the fact we're limited to something? Sure why not.

Regardless of what system this MMO was designed in mind for, it would have had limitations accordingly.

Had it been designed for PC, true we'd have been able to handle more things like visible capes and real wind/cloth physics, but we'd also have been limited by 2002 Era video card and tech spec limitations, newer cards would enhance games like that slightly , but SE wouldn't have re-made games to have Normal Maps and HD lighting like games of today have, because then the game won't work for all those original Computers this game was designed for.

Argument is stupid. We're always going to be limited, and it's retarded from a marketing or even business perspective to just re-create the game identically but full of eye candy, when all you're getting is the original customers + a few extra, instead of creating hype with a whole new game and graphics engine.

Personally, I like XI as it is, it could do with a few touch ups like changing the way information is transferred between the server (beseiged/dynamis), a few tools should be added in from the devs like a togglable proper radar map, drawdistance, tp display, movable menus, etc, but I don't think we should try and give the game a makeover if it's gonna take away from them making more awesome things like Salvage which is a giant success.

And we all know if they re-made XI, it'd be wasted because there's only 2 zones used in this game, whitegate and Aery amirite!?

[Ashky]

I own the game for 360, PC, and PS2 and the day they stop allowing the PS2 version is the day I quit and never come back and I am 100% serious. The reason I say this is because my recliner in front of my TV kicks the absolute shit out of my computer chair. The PS2 runs the game better than the PC and 360 versions in terms of smoothness (granted, maybe this could change without lolPS2 limitations). Sure, I could play the 360 version with updated graphics on my HD TV while still being in the recliner, but again, I think the 360 version runs like total shit. When I do gear swap macro's I don't even get to see animations of spells etc.


As much as I love this game, the PS2 version in my eyes is still by far the best. I couldn't care any less about graphics on a game. This is why 80% of games that come out for the next gen consoles these days suck total ass because they focus so much on making it look awesome and not enough on making it play smooth/fun.

[Tomiko]

And we all know if they re-made XI, it'd be wasted because there's only 2 zones used in this game, whitegate and Aery amirite!?

Leave it to Wafik to come in and just own everyone. =D>

Seriously though, very good points made, especially the graphics card one which I admit I hadn't even considered.

And I know if falls into your "etc." catagory, but added macro lines and sets is a big one I think many would like to have.

[Don Katsu]

I have been playing this game since the release on PC. Sure the PS2 has it's limitations but where does it stop? Do you want everyone to upgrade their computers that can barely handle the game? Should everyone have a benchmark score of 5000+ just so the game could look better for you?

[Khajit]

You can take away my ps2 acess when you allow me to forcefully shove the entirety of my ps2 up your ass in retalation.
I like not having to deal with lag nearly as much. I like the faster/easier targetting. I like being able to sit my ass on the couch and play. It's a hell of alot more comfortable than being on pc and playing. My damned PC has problems are freakin despot with frame rates and it's not even a crappy one.

Go play 360? hah! 360 can kiss my ass! No way in hell am I paying a bunch of money for something that has a 33% chance of breaking within 3 months.
Get ps3? The version of it that does support ffxi has been discontinued and it cost too damned much for a system with very few games to play atm.
PC? Just because I have it doesnt mean I have to play it 100% of the time. Like others have said, it's alot more comfortable playing on a couch and looking at the tv in addition to the perks like lag/response times being handeled better.