JP PT Only

[Sendra]

Next thing is NA dont have the common courtesy to understand that JP find it harsh to be examined without asking for permission. Examine is what a doctor does at the hospital and it is very private.

I haven't seen a JP player flip out at this since 2005. Also, aren't they different words to them? Like "so and so gazes at you" or something.

[Izzy]

Here's an idea, just invite people, and don't worry about whatever the fuck language they speak. The only reason this is a problem is because people are making it a problem.

[Septimus]

Next thing is NA dont have the common courtesy to understand that JP find it harsh to be examined without asking for permission. Examine is what a doctor does at the hospital and it is very private .

First off, you are a moron.

Second off, I think this part annoyed me the most. For all of the JP who bitch, moan, and complain about being /checked, they are huge hypocrites because most of them will gleefully /check other people without asking. (Then cop an attitude when you check them back, or change gear, etc.)

And finally, GTFO.

[Sepuku]

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

[Yutuyu]

Here's an idea, just invite people, and don't worry about whatever the fuck language they speak. The only reason this is a problem is because people are making it a problem.

No offense, but did you read anything?

The problem is that we DO invite them and they turn us down simply because we speak english. I mean if you think it's a problem because they're making it a problem, yes that is incredibly obvious, but what you said makes absolutely no sense to say to US.

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

The hypocrisy in everything you're saying is blatantly evident.

[Septimus]

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

Yup, and that was my point- you need to give respect to get respect. Congratulations, you figured it out. Your prize is one GTFO, redeemable now.

[Wizerd]

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

Yup, and that was my point- you need to give respect to get respect. Congratulations, you figured it out. Your prize is one GTFO, redeemable now.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9867/banhimso5.jpg

Anywho, I only wanted the JP comment bits because I mostly seek during JP time. What's the point in missing out on invites that are gonna go to JP players if you can steal some of those invites by faking JP? Smart, if you ask me. JP are too polite to kick you after they figure out you're not one of them, so it's a win win situation.

I say win win situation because I know that personally, I'm a good Bard (the job I'm currently leveling), and if I can show the JPs that, and they've figured out I'm NA, then maybe it will shed some light on the fact that not all English speaking players are retarded. Just the ones that don't put up search comments are retarded.

*takes a quick look at people seeking from 50-60*

19 people seeking.

8 of them are "E" with no exp comment.
4 of them are "J" with proper comments, including tnl.
3 of them are "JEGF?", 1 of which has a proper comment, 1 of which has no comment, and 1 of which has a comment but doesn't list tnl.
1 of them is "JEF?", no comment up.
1 of them is "JE" with a proper comment.
1 of them is "E" with a comment that says "food brb"
and last but not least, 1 of them is "E" with a proper comment.

So let's take a look... out of 11 people with "E" listed as one of their only languages (this discludes JEGF or JEF people), 2 of them have comments that work. Out of 5 people with "J" listed as one of their only languages, 5 of them have proper comments.

It's no wonder NAs fake JP comments, it makes them look half fucking decent. I hate people who don't put up an exp comment. I don't care if you're a fucking bard, I'm not inviting you newb idiot who doesn't know how to make a goddamn comment. </rant>

[Hapernack]

If you have language problems getting exp you should get these things called friends. They sure make PTs easier to form.

[Septimus]

I say win win situation because I know that personally, I'm a good Bard (the job I'm currently leveling), and if I can show the JPs that, and they've figured out I'm NA, then maybe it will shed some light on the fact that not all English speaking players are retarded. Just the ones that don't put up search comments are retarded.

You aren't going to change the mind of a someone who is stubborn or bigoted. I simply won't party with people who have "JP PT only" comments, I see no reason to help them get XP. Hell, I solo PL as much as I can any more to put up with the least amount of crap as possible from everyone.

[Izzy]

Here's an idea, just invite people, and don't worry about whatever the fuck language they speak. The only reason this is a problem is because people are making it a problem.

No offense, but did you read anything?

The problem is that we DO invite them and they turn us down simply because we speak english. I mean if you think it's a problem because they're making it a problem, yes that is incredibly obvious, but what you said makes absolutely no sense to say to US.

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

The hypocrisy in everything you're saying is blatantly evident.

Yea you're right. Well the way I always looked at it is this:
I know my exp pt is gonna pull at least 15k/hr...if they don't wanna take my invite because they're "JP ONLY" then fine, I just won't invite you. You can enjoy your 5k/hr aura statue EXP and i'll be getting 3-4x that.

I always just ignored the JP ONLY people...except the NA's that do that, then I get a bit pissed.

[Stolin]

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

Somethings crawled deep inside you, but you can't escape me. Somethings shoved deep inside you. Here we go, you kneel I'll stick it in.

[Doofus]

talking about disrespect.
You are the perfect NA example. You win 1 internet.

Somethings crawled deep inside you, but you can't escape me. Somethings shoved deep inside you. Here we go, you kneel I'll stick it in.

What?

[Zosi]

Next thing is NA dont have the common courtesy to understand that JP find it harsh to be examined without asking for permission. Examine is what a doctor does at the hospital and it is very private.

I haven't seen a JP player flip out at this since 2005. Also, aren't they different words to them? Like "so and so gazes at you" or something.

There's also a chat filter setting specific to check notices. If you see them, it's either because you want to or you're too ignorant/lazy to filter them.

[Shuemue]

I dont know the english word for this but germans and JP share this.

http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?la ... =&comment=

Fleiss didn't do you much good in 1966, did it?

[JMunin]

For those interested in the "Japanese Only" problem beyond FFXI, I'd suggest checking out http://www.debito.org and http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html. Quite a bit of interesting reading if you take the time to figure out how to navigate around. Basically, an American went through all the hurdles of becoming a naturalized Japanese citizen and spends a lot of his time on human rights issues in Japan, including showing up at places with "Japanese Only" signs and making a stink.

[Elcura]

FFXI is a game, respect shouldn't be given, it should be earned. There's common courtesy no matter you do but in general most people I don't know and PT with don't have my respect until I've seen they deserve it. This may sound elitist but after 3-4 years of playing you become cynical and your views change and standards rise, the fact is many of us old school people are hard to please today. Whether you're JP, NA or EU doesn't change the fact that until I see what you can do I think you're a noob.

Personally I've had little trouble inviting JP players on Bahamut, most NA/EU players would do something like "HEY WANNA PT?!" in full English and expect them to know what they're talking about. If you want to invite anyone, you've got to put a little though into what you do. Tell them what jobs you have in the PT so far, tell them the level range and possibly (if you know) tell them where you plan to camp. This kind of foresight is pretty impressive no matter where you are, and before ToAU areas I could easily tell a PT I made where we were gonna camp and what we were gonna kill. Hell, you could even tell them how many players in your PT are Japanese so they don't feel alone and have no one to talk too.

Despite all that though, there are gonna be people who won't PT with you no matter what, but why does that matter? Just invite the one's who will.

[LinktheDeme]

I dont know the english word for this but germans and JP share this.

http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?la ... =&comment=

Fleiss didn't do you much good in 1966, did it?

what is fleiss ? I don't really understand the concept anyone have a good example?

[Zilong]

I remember a few years ago when I was a 61 RDM I got a JP invite and I responded (I don't speak any japanese)ok? and he replied with (Refresh) (Do you have it?). Thought that was kinda funny lol. I ended up responding (What?)(Refresh) and he never talked to me again after T_T

Oh yeah - fuck pretending to be JP in your seacom with IME. Have some pride!

Fuck pride, I want parties, and you don't usually get those sporting E comment during JP hours unless you're like a RDM or BRD.

Beside, 90% of the time, English speaker will probably invite you to join your party regardless of your language choice, so might as well accommodate for the people who are more selective with their recruitment.

what is fleiss ? I don't really understand the concept anyone have a good example?

Well he said it's a word that only exist on German language, so I'd imagine it'd be rather similar to others like it, such as schadenfreude or something.

[Doofus]

Next thing is NA dont have the common courtesy to understand that JP find it harsh to be examined without asking for permission. Examine is what a doctor does at the hospital and it is very private.

I haven't seen a JP player flip out at this since 2005. Also, aren't they different words to them? Like "so and so gazes at you" or something.

We are obviously on different servers >.> A lot of JP change gear and stuff when you check them.
Yuchi, a leader of one of the HNMLS's on Odin is notorious for doing so and getting VERY mad when checked.

But i have a hard time believing any of this jp only being related to 'i cant speak english' as someone said english is a required course in most japanese schools, while i agree most is not retained, enough is to function, and i get by just fine with quite a few jp that dont speak a word of english.

Maybe it is a deep-seated national pride thing? sure thats nice and all.. but when it makes you look like an ass..?

Most of the jp on my friend list are in their late 20's early 30's, they have real jobs, they don't log on every day.
I think personally the ones that flip out are spoiled teenagers, that is how it was explained to me by one of my jp friends that does speak english.
It's the same thing as a NA teenager getting all mad and stuff when you tell him not to tp in hecatomb, yet a more mature one may take your advice as just that instead of an insult.
Also: this is a japanese game, why would they make it offensive?

[Max™]

Talking to a JP bud of mine last night, he explained to me that it is "Soandso gazed Yourname." more or less.

It isn't the actual words that offend, as he explained, and even showed me a bit of Japanese for it, I believe Souki ...(can't remember) kudasai, May I see your Equips.

It is the act of doing it without asking that is considered rude.

The JP that check NA without asking have just come to realise we for the most part couldn't care less about it. Get into a party with a JP who is trying to be friendly, or doesn't realise we don't care, often you will get asked before you are examined.

Course, a simple check ok? works.

I picked up on this after being asked by a couple of JPs if they could check me, was explaining to the guy last night, we don't attach any measure of politeness or rudeness to being checked, I'm happy about it ("Thats right, I have nice gears huh.") proud even.

It's just a culture thing, in America, you see someone reading a book you've read, or a newspaper story you're interested in, you wouldn't feel weird striking up a conversation about it.

In Japan, personal space is much more valued, you wouldn't sit and read over someones shoulder and talk about their manga, you'd glance over at it, and then ask if you could see what they were reading. (my theory: Small country, been getting more and more populated for centuries with the same finite amount of room, your privacy is very important)

We have a big, huge, wide open country, we're composed of 40% Hamburger meat, and just don't have those habits.

So you wind up with this rift between the players.

JP wonder why we're so rude.
NA wonder why they think we're rude.

As for the "JP Only" or "I don't speak any English."

Yes, most JP will speak at least a bit of English, but all the ones I've talked to tend to be very embarrassed when they make mistakes, and are regularly saying how bad their english is, even when they are speaking quite well, only missing a word or two.

Goes back to the culture thing, but this is a bit more universal, whichever language you picked some up of in school (for many it is spanish in America) think about the last time you were around a bunch of the Native speakers, and tried to interject something, but used the wrong word or tense and said something unintentionally which they all found hilarious.

(mine was using cucina instead of cocina "Hey, come help me hang this shelf up in the pig.")

Now imagine having 5 people you're in a party with spamming chat, you're reading up trying to keep up, you say something and a bunch of them laugh and mention it a few times, now you feel like you've made an ass of yourself, and aren't even sure if they're calling you an ass for it.