Whats better?

[Eldelphia]

level 41 COR >.>

Empress Pin
IM Gambison
Nomad's mantle
Spike Necklace (no PCC, suggestions welcome)
MC Belt or Gun Belt depending on sub
Republic Subligar
Drone earrings x 2
Jaeger Ring/Marksman's Ring - Alacrity rings for qd when they come up on AH
Archer's Knives
Trump Gun

Should I replace Noct+1 hands with Mage's cuffs (2Racc v 2 AGI) or just macro in for QD?

[Mayareira]

Macro it in. Keep Noct Gloves+1 for TP.

[Bakthi]

Spike Necklace (no PCC, suggestions welcome)

Sadly COR is kind of hosed until Spectacles without a PCC (I'm sure glad RDM and BRD are on Jagd Gorget). I used a Feather Collar +1, but it's such a weak option that I'm sure the Spike Necklace is fine.

[Callisto]

I guess while the discussion is going on in Media I'll ask here, my RNG mule is average, not gimped but not pimped, and trying to work out CFGs vs. S.Kote for TP/Sidewinder/Slug.

My normal gear:

TP:
Francisca/Hawker's+1/EBow/Demon
Scout's/Ranger's/Drone/Drone
Hunter's/???/Behemoth/Behemoth
Amemet+1/R.K.+1/Scout's/Scout's

WS:

Wyvern/PCC/Drone/Drone
Blue Cotehardie/???/Garrulous/Ruby
Amemet+1/Warwolf/Scout's/Scout's

Any other minor suggestions would be welcome, he's a little over halfway to Buc Belt but ampoule farming is on hold for now. As far as buyables will try to get Osode eventually but this is just a 2box mule so not a huge priority at the moment.

[Nameless]

I'm not sure I see Naglering to be an improvement over Subduer...

With the same Store TP build you put up, Subduer is a 7-hit weapon.

With Raja's, Brutal, /SAM, and Carbonara: Subduer is 11.3 * 1.27 = 14.3 tp per hit

With a 444 delay and 7-hit, Subduer takes 3108 delay to get to 100 tp. With Naglering and 6-hit it takes 501 * 6 or 3006 delay to 100tp, which is about 3.4% faster.

Subduer is 11.49 dps compared to 10.15 dps for Nagle, or 12.9% better.

So the choice becomes (3.4% more ws damage + 20 attack + 4 acc) compared to (12.9% DoT bonus + 6% Critical bonus). For me the Subduer looks like its winning.

The thing is, with subduer you either have to eat carbonara or use askar body full time to achieve a 7 hit build, picking your poison, while with Naglering you need neither other than a few gear adjustments to hit a 6 hit build and you are free to eat some of the more powerful attack food. Ideally, you want to have 23 store tp during tp and 22 during ws for Naglering, both can be done easily without sacrificing much, if anything. With /sam, brutal, rajas, chiv. chain, and ecph. ring, you are at 23 store tp. The trade off? chiv. chain over prudence (1.3 acc and 5 attack vs 3 str, pretty much can be seen as losing 1.3 acc as 3 str will give you 1 fstr 75% of the time), ecph. ring over toreador's ring (3 acc loss). So in the end, you are trading off about 4 accuracy to reach a 6 hit build, which is covered by the sword's 4 accuracy. And this allows you to use adaberk to tp on HNM or high evasive mobs while eating sushi, giving you a higher ceiling in damage potential against harder mobs. One thing tho, needing 22 store tp for ws means you will have to use attula's earring instead of triumph or assault earring for ws, neither is that bad of a trade off consider the sword itself gives 20 attack already (assuming you would keep sea gorget and flame ring for ws, which are both bigger trade off than the second earring slot).

With my experience, and varified by the damage calculator that I have created. It seems like in normal merit party, subduer with aurum cuirass and a 7 hit build will beat out both Naglering (6 hit) and Algol (7 hit) (counting fire damage, assuming 30% proc rate) by 1-2% due to the loss of accuracy from using aurum is minimal at higher end accuracy situation, and this is also with using hauberk instead of ebody for Naglering and algol. And surprisingly Algol does do the most average WS due to having higher ftp during ws (7 hit build instead of 6 hit build means it will always ws with more tp, and ftp is adjusted by tp for spinning slash). However, Naglering and 6 hit build pull way ahead when mobs are above bird difficulty. I should probably pair algol with aurum's body and give it a run on the calculator and see if 6 hit algol will do better.

Note that with Naglering 6 hit, the total ws damage vs total melee damage went from the usual 1:1 to something like 1.1: 0.9. With WS being the majority of your total damage output, this sword is ideally the best for HNM as we all know that spinning slash performs well against harder mobs and is effected less when mob's def are high. So yea, in this case, it is very situational. Tho without a doubt you should never overlook subduer, with the right build it is probably the best GS for merit purpose.

Note that this is under the assumption that Spinning slash gives a fixed 200 attack. The other possibility is that it can be a 45% pdif bonus, adjusted before the lvl correlation. The discussion of which one is right is sort of hard to test, as we only really know bird's stats. If you know where will be a good place to find mob's lvl, vit, def, please let me know, this is important in finding the hidden attack or pdif % bonus for SS, gekko, and ground strike.

[Mayareira]

I guess while the discussion is going on in Media I'll ask here, my RNG mule is average, not gimped but not pimped, and trying to work out CFGs vs. S.Kote for TP/Sidewinder/Slug.


TP:
Francisca/Hawker's+1/EBow/Demon
Scout's/Ranger's/Drone/Drone
Hunter's/???/Behemoth/Behemoth
Amemet+1/R.K.+1/Scout's/Scout's

WS:

Wyvern/PCC/Drone/Drone
Blue Cotehardie/???/Garrulous/Ruby
Amemet+1/Warwolf/Scout's/Scout's

Any other minor suggestions would be welcome, he's a little over halfway to Buc Belt but ampoule farming is on hold for now. As far as buyables will try to get Osode eventually but this is just a 2box mule so not a huge priority at the moment.

You should consider using AF1(+1) (when you are confident with your accuracy), Optical Hat or War Beret +1(if you don't want to bother with ohat). Scout's Beret is...well, only good for recycle effect on it.

If you really don't want to give up recycle at least macro-in War Beret +1 for Barrage. Ranger can't wear Warwolf so Ocean Sash is a good alternative if you are a hume.

An ideal gear setup would be;

TP:

Main: Kriegsbeil > Hawker's Knife +1
Sub: Fransisca > Hawker's Knife +1
Ranged: Yoichinoyumi > Eurytos' Bow > Selene's Bow > Cobra Unit Bow
Ammo: Demon Arrow
Head: Barbut > Hunter's Beret +1 > Optical Hat > War Beret +1
Neck: Hope Torque > Peacock Charm > Qiqirn Sash > Jagd Gorget > Ranger's Necklace
Ear1: Triumph Earring > Cassie Earring
Ear2: Triumph Earring > Vision Earring
Body: Body: Skadi's Cuirie > Kirin's Osode > Kyudogi > Phaluwan Kanghazgand > Hunter's Jerkin
Hands: Seiryu's Kote > Skadi's Bazubands > Blood/Crimson FG
Ring1: Rajas' Ring > J. Ring > Behemoth Ring +1 > Merman's Ring +1 > Behemoth Ring > Coral Ring
Ring2: Bellona's Ring > J. Ring > Behemoth Ring +1 > Merman's Ring +1 > Behemoth Ring > Coral Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Waist: Scout's Belt > Buccaneer's Belt > Ocean Sash > Royal Knight's +2
Legs: Skadi's Chausses > Dusk Trousers +1 > Pahluwan Seraweels > Scout's Braccae
Feet: Skadi's Jambeaux > Scout's Socks > War Boots +1

WS:

Main: Kriegsbeil > Hawker's Knife +1
Sub: Fransisca > Hawker's Knife +1
Ranged: Yoichinoyumi > Eurytos' Bow > Selene's Bow > Cobra Unit Bow
Ammo: Patriarch Protector's Arrow > Kabura Arrow
Head: Maat's Cap > Wyvern Helm +1 > Barbut > Optical Hat > War Beret +1
Neck: Sea Gorget > Hope Torque > Peacock Charm > Qiqirn Sash > Jagd Gorget > Ranger's Necklace
Ear1: Triumph Earring > Cassie Earring
Ear2: Triumph Earring > Vision Earring
Body: Body: Kirin's Osode > Skadi's Cuirie > Kyudogi > Phaluwan Kanghazgand > Hunter's Jerkin
Hands: Skadi's Bazubands > Seiryu's Kote > Blood/Crimson FG
Ring1: Rajas' Ring > Flame/Triumph Ring > J. Ring > Behemoth Ring +1 > Merman's Ring +1 > Behemoth Ring > Coral Ring
Ring2: Flame/Triumph Ring > Bellona's Ring > J. Ring > Behemoth Ring +1 > Merman's Ring +1 > Behemoth Ring > Coral Ring
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Waist: Scout's Belt > Buccaneer's Belt > Ocean Sash > Royal Knight's +2
Legs: Skadi's Chausses > Dusk Trousers +1 > Pahluwan Seraweels > Scout's Braccae
Feet: Skadi's Jambeaux > Scout's Socks > Marine M Boots(hume) > War Boots +1


Probably missed a couple of stuff but this should give you an idea.

[Callisto]

Whoops that's my COR I use Warwolf on, don't mind me XD

Yeah I use Scout's simply for the Recycle, it's a 2box mule so just cutting costs where I can. For Barrage I use Optical + S.Kote. No Sea access so AF+1 is out, basically trying to get as decent of a setup as I can with AH/Sky/Dynamis gear.

[Hyriu]

WAR/SAM.

TP gear:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...205_173947.jpg

Question is, would you use White Tathlum for a real 6-hit or keep Bomblet on and count on 2 Raging Rush hits landing?

and yes, I already have both. I'm guessing Bomblet but I'm not sure.

[Max™]

Count on 2 hits landing, use Bomblet.

-Enm is a sin on War.

[Vail]

Count on 2 hits landing, use Bomblet.

-Enm is a sin on War.

pretty sure people don't really wear white thatlum for -2enm
but I agree: stick with bomblet on that.

white thatlum is good if you need it to get 6 hit, or if your 6 hit requires you to land every hit of your WS to hit 100tp,t hen I'd use it, but given leniency to miss one or 2 hits, use a dmg boosting ammo item

[Cream Soda]

Ok for Penta on sam, with my current gear, I'd be at acc cap with both combinations (with 1 madrigal)

Bkote + Byakkos = 22 attack 15 dex
Usu Gote + Usu = 10 attack 5 str 5 dex

but not at acc cap with Kote/Usu

[Reznap]

WAR/SAM.

Question is, would you use White Tathlum for a real 6-hit or keep Bomblet on and count on 2 Raging Rush hits landing?

lol, you suck so much you miss ws hits! =[

[Saxon]

Haub or Shadow Breastplate for TP on War where accuracy isnt capped?

[Cream Soda]

Haub or Shadow Breastplate for TP on War where accuracy isnt capped?

I'm not expert on war, but unless shadow breastplate can deal enough damage per hit to make up for an average of 5.5 hits less missed per hundred swings, then I'd go haub, definitely.

[Reznap]

I know myself and two other wars that prefer shadow over haub, and none of us drop below 90% acc. Its statistically like ares body except no refresh, so why not

[Hyriu]

lol, you suck so much you miss ws hits! =[

Actually I don't, not often anyway <.<

[Tubbers]

I know myself and two other wars that prefer shadow over haub, and none of us drop below 90% acc. Its statistically like ares body except no refresh, so why not

Because you shouldn't TP in Ares body either, except maybe on birds. If you reallllllly are above 90% all the time, then I can see a case for it, but Haub will raise your hit rate at least 6.5% with a 2handed wep, or until the cap. Haub+1 will raise it at least 8% or until cap. A 6.5% hit rate increase for a loss of 5 STR and 15 attack is well worth it in my book. 8% for 4 STR and 13 attack, no contest at all.

[Reznap]

ares body is great, if you use rune chopper. And as for shadow body, i still love it. Granted I don't do mammol exp or anything really accuracy intensive, and still see great results from it.

[Max™]

Ares body is the source of the most powerful whiffs ever, you'll be missing so fucking hard, mobs will think they got hit and die anyway!

No, it isn't worth giving up 12~16 Acc for 4~5 Str and 13~15 Att, ever. Look into how attack is calculated versus how acc is calculated, you'll see quickly that you need way more attack to make up for just a little acc loss.

Parse yourself, and if you really find that you're pushing 92~95% Accuracy without a body piece, and using full haste gear as you should be anyway... make sure you're not eating sushi for some reason.

[Reznap]

ares+RC is a powerful combo. Id use it myself if i had ares body. Only person that's outparsed me without a relic was my ls leader who uses RC+Ares combo. Having capped physical haste > losing 7acc or whatever on body. Even if im using perdu id rather wear shadow cuz im sick of looking at stupid haubs since 2005.

I rarely exp, and if i do its at bird camp. I did just parse myself with my minimal acc build and had 90.7, using meat full haste build, and shadow body. If I want more acc Ill just buy a sniper+1 and assault earring, problem solved