Whats better?

[Max™]

Compare 3%/42 Dmg during Jin vs 6%/41 Dmg during Jin.

[FailureMidgard]

it depends on your pdif and fstr, assuming a standard good setup:
Katana/Perdu - Bomblet
Turban - Peacock/Hope - Brutal/Suppa
Hauby+1 - Dusk/+1 - Sniper+1/toreador/mars
Forager's - Swift/Speed - Haidate - Fuma/Dusk+1

You have a total of +9 STR, hume NIN has 70 base total of 79 STR. Greater colibri have 67 VIT, so you have a bonus of 3 from fSTR totalling 41 base damage with senji. 6% crits at 41 base damage means 6% of 41 added to your average damage, as a crit increases pdif by 1 flat. This is 2.46 damage/hit average increase, does not fluctuate with anything besides fSTR and weapon damage, weapon damage will not change if you stay with senji obviously, though fSTR changes by a tiny amount if you change mobs. Now, the more complicated math(using the inferior options mentioned above to favor senji even more for this example):
285 katana skill before gear, 79 str = 319 attack
perdu blade, bomblet, NQ dusk gloves, foragers, hauby+1, swift = 362
valor minuet iv(+61 w/o merits) = 423
mithkabob = 483
berserk 3/5 of the time means an average of 15% increase = 555
It's pretty safe to assume your attack will average at least 550 meritting, considering that's not even accounting for warcry, possible 2x minuet or chaos roll, or the possible upgrades mentioned earlier.

550 / 322 = 1.7 - .3 for level correction = 1.4 pdif on lv81 birds
550 / 327 = 1.68 - .35 for level correction = 1.33 pdif on lv82 birds

Adding one base damage adds your pdif in damage to each swing, in this case 1.33 - 1.4. It adds an additional 1 damage to each critical hit you have, assuming 15% crit this comes out to 1.48 - 1.55. 3% crit at 42 base damage = 1.26 damage/swing average increase, for an overall total of 2.74 - 2.81 damage/hit average depending on the level of the bird.

People love to think their Senji is useful because they put time and effort into obtaining and unlocking it, but simple math shows that Fudo is a better weapon and MUCH easier to get.

While I applaud your math there, you do realize you said it wins for "both tp and ws" in your original post, and the extra damage from crit does actually fluctuate with WS modifiers (as they work like base damage basically in the formula)? Furthermore, WS modifiers makes the 1 base damage significantly less important (smaller % increase, anyway).

I've never bothered doing the math comparing the 2, but your math there is inconclusive at best (is 12% base crit the accepted value?), and possibly still incorrect for which is better overall.

[Thorny]

12% base crit is not the accepted base value, but rather a lowball estimate. Increasing it puts fudo further into the lead, so I'd rather lowball it than overdo it when trying to prove fudo is superior. Currently doing the math on jin between the 2 but I'm pretty sure I already did it once ages ago on KI. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it when I finish as going off of memory of something done over a year ago is obviously not the most reliable thing and I shouldn't have stated it without double-checking.

Base: 70 str 70 dex

weapons: katana/perdu bomblet
shura head peacock brutal minuet
hauby+1 enkidu's mittens rajas sniper+1
cuchulain's warwolf haidate denali

more or less the same pdif as previous example, STR+33 DEX+40
110 dex 103 STR, 9 base damage from fSTR, 30 from str, 33 from dex
110 base damage with senji, 111 with fudo
4 hits @ ~1.4 pdif = 5.6 average damage increase from fudo
3% crit @ 111 base damage = 3.33 damage/hit, 13.32 total
overall increase from fudo over a DMG:38 blank katana during jin: 18.92 damage

6% crit @ 110 base damage = 6.6 damage/hit, 26.4 total
overall increase from senji over a dmg:38 blank katana during jin: 26.4 damage

9 fudo hits to get tp from a 13 tp return @ ~.35 less/hit = 3.15 damage more for fudo during tp phase

Overall, for one TP->WS cycle at reasonable pdif on reasonable targets, senji will average 4.33 more damage with these setups. I was wrong before, and shouldn't have stated it without redoing the math. It's worth mentioning, however, that if your WS gear is inferior to this then fudo may pull ahead overall.. and each critical hit you have with fudo increases damage with fudo during tp by 1 more than it does with senji. I still would not recommend unlocking senji to a new NIN75, it's a decent time investment for a tiny increase.

[Drace]

For Howling Fist - Genbu Bucket or Maat's Cap.

(8 VIT vs 7 STR)

[Max™]

I forget the Str mod on HF, isn't it low like 10% or 20% but 50% Vit?

For Senj vs Fudo that basically mimics what was worked out long ago regarding Rampager vs Perdu.

It depends heavily on your target and gear, but neither one is obviously superior for RR spam than the other.... course, with KJ out, Perdu is far more desireable, but nyzul rankups are slow (but steady) so what can ya do.

[Drace]

WS Mods are 20% STR, 50% VIT, but not sure if the extra 8VIT will outweigh the fSTR boost from Maat's.

[FailureMidgard]

WS Mods are 20% STR, 50% VIT, but not sure if the extra 8VIT will outweigh the fSTR boost from Maat's.

WSC is * .83, so you're looking at .83*30=24.9 vs ~25%. This is assuming a decent fSTR value. The 8 STR also gives some small amount of attack, so it is probably superior, though barely.

[Valyana]

fSTR is basically equivalent to a 30% WSC, making that 50% STR 50% VIT; so yes, the extra attack makes the STR win.

[Thorny]

45% str w/ fstr, 50% vit = 7.5 base damage boost from genbu bucket, 3.5 from vit from maat's, 3.15 from str from maat's.. overall 7.5 base damage vs 6.65 base damage and 5.25 attack. Worth noting that all of these numbers would be truncated in the ingame calculation.. I left them as is because they represent an average for possible STR/VIT/mob VIT values. In actuality, you could figure out if they're giving you the extra point or not on each part by checking your stats and the VIT of the mob you're fighting, but that's a ton of effort. At 100 tp, which is 2.5 ftp, and 1.5 pdif the kabuto adds .85 * 2.5 * 1.5 or 3.1875 more damage on average. 5.25 attack on a ~350 defense mob will add 3.75% of your base damage(.015 cratio, 2.5 ftp mod), which will about always be more than the kabuto by a very tiny amount, unless you have capped cratio.

[Valyana]

fSTR is even with a 30% mod rather than 25% because of the WSC level correction: 0.25/0.83 = 0.301.

[Nishida]

I see some SAMs using Askar hands over Dusk Gloves. Is this just a penny pinch tactic or am I missing something?

Also, if I wanted to TP in Askar body what if any pieces are there to make up for the lost ACC? (Elvaan w/o capped GKT..working on it..-_-)

[Thorny]

w/o capped GKT, nothing
with capped GKT, probably good for dynamis and some limbuses/other weak mobs.. it's inferior for merits though unless you're getting acc buffs or using acc food for god knows why

edit: that was on the body, not hands

[Valyana]

Askar gloves will beat NQ dusk in low haste, uncapped acc situations. And they don't make you run slow.

[Halion]

I was playing with Cletine for a long time but I just don't think it's doing much for my WS and it breaks my build so I'm always hitting 99 TP. I haven't upgraded to White Tathlum or Chuchu Mantle because of the dumb prices, it's more of a principles things than a broke thing. So 1) Trade off Acc for STP 2) Cletine > Mezraq 3) Cletine > Thalassocrat? Walmart/PCC/Assault/Brutal/Ares Cuirass/Homam/Rajas/Toreador~Ulthalam/Foragers/Swift/Homam/Aurum Sabatons

The reason I wonder about Mezraq is because I am a Mithra. I tried doing the math myself and I just got a headache

[Wolfknight]

Skystrider + Supremacy Earring or Thalassocrat + Ethereal

skystrider and earring much better in any non-/mage area, but for /mage second is better.

[Sodalitas]

Just hit 72WAR, and trying to plan my gear choices ahead.

Assuming I am limited to using /NIN subjob, and I can't choose Rajas Ring, which of the following gear paths should I take? Already bought a Perdu Voulge, so probably going to use that, unless there's a better recommendation.

1) White Tathlum + Chivalrous Chain + Ecphoria Ring (total 5 Store TP including Brutal) for a 7-hit build.
2) Fire Bomblet + Fortitude Torque + Accuracy Ring and stay with a 8-hit build.

Other gear is likely to be:-
Perdu/Pole Grip/-/?
Askar Zucchetto/?/Assault Earring/Brutal
Hauberk/Dusk(working on Askar)/Woodsman/?
Amemet+1/Life Belt(working on Swift)/Byakko's/Dusk(working on Aurum)

[Thorny]

go w/ the acc shit, cutting an 8 hit build to a 7 hit build isn't nearly as much of an increase as cutting a 7 hit to a 6 hit and you're losing 11 acc and 13 attack while only gaining 3 str to use the tathlum setup

[Max™]

Well, getting a free 8 > 7 hit from Rajas is awesome, but like he said, 8 > 7 for 11/13 is lame.

I don't have Rajas anymore, and it really isn't that hard to get used to an 8 hit build again.

R.I.P. 6 hit, you were fun while you lasted.

[Kurt Cobain]

you didn't honestly trade your rajas in for the piece of shit i think you did, right?

[Jakson]

And afks in front of Windy Mog House in War enmity gear with it too!

On a side note Max, yours was the first taru I'd ever seen in war af. Hopefully it will be the last.