Whats better?

[Shinryuu]

I didn't see where you added the Claymore in there

The 'C'. I can do Rampager versus Perdu too. Want me to?

Ramp/Pole is all about pushing out reliable numbers

Damage dealing is all about maximizing your total damage.

[Wulfgang]

I can't imagine a time I'd want to use something other than Seiryu's that wasn't Skadi hands.

Depends on your buffs and whether you're using Sidewinder or Slug; as your RATK scales, Kote gets better. This is on a damage basis only though, Kote obviously have more RACC.

Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Ranger

[Kimkytaru]

Must be somewhere but I'm a bit lazy.

Oracle's Robe

Def : 41 HP+20 MP+20
MAB +6
Magic Acc. +6
HMP : +6

VS

Igqira Weskit

Def : 35 Elemental Skill +5
MAB +6
Conserve MP +2
Physical damage : Curse Effect on opponent.

For blm what's better.

[Callisto]

Oracle's.

[Fingerspitz]

for tanking chariots on mnk. hades santi or destroyers? mnk just turned 73 and will be tanking salvage once im 75

I asked this a couple times here and got told destroyers. Shame because hades looks so much cooler but saves some gil I guess.

Must be somewhere but I'm a bit lazy.

Oracle's Robe

Def : 41 HP+20 MP+20
MAB +6
Magic Acc. +6
HMP : +6

VS

Igqira Weskit

Def : 35 Elemental Skill +5
MAB +6
Conserve MP +2
Physical damage : Curse Effect on opponent.

For blm what's better.

Oracle's is better than nq weskit and worse than hq weskit.

[Kimkytaru]

I'm using Hades to tank Chariot and never had any problem at all with it.

My Guess :

Try both and check which you like the more. Depends too if you have several people on Chariot or if you only put 1 mnk on it.

[Cream Soda]

I use hades if it brings me to the 80-85% acc range with meat and no madrigal (Usually Battleclad for hades this way). On LAC I use destroyers because his eva is just garbitch. Armored and LBC are a bit more evasive from my parses (Did one fight of each chariot w/o acc food, no using focus, no madrigal to see where my acc stands). For these 2, I'll either go pizza or if my meat is still on from climbing, I'll keep the Csub on and go from march/min to march/mad and keep destroyers on.

[Max™]

The 'C'. I can do Rampager versus Perdu too. Want me to?



Damage dealing is all about maximizing your total damage.

I missed the letters, my bad.

When I party I go by the mantra that exp/hr > anything, including some epeen parse numbers, so making sure every fight goes by as fast as possible > having any lull in my performance. Ramp/Pole was all about cranking out weirdly high WS averages with a 6 hit build, which means over time I do my part to put the current mob down and start the next.

Perdu/Pole tends to be more peaky than Ramp/Pole, or Perdu/Clay. Peaky numbers might look cool, but they don't favor total damage.


2 DA's per WS possible vs 5 Crits per WS possible, and 2% vs 3% makes it not as clearcut as you are implying, I'd suggest rerunning the math as it didn't come out as obvious as you might think.

[Shinryuu]

I did the WS math too, I'll do it again if you want but now I'm dualboxing in Yhoator. First thing I'll do is Perdu vs. Rampager since that annoys me the most. The peaky fairytale thing I'll deal with too, and maybe I'll do pole v. claymore again but it's annoying, I've done it before, and the outcome didn't change.

One thing:

When I party I go by the mantra that exp/hr > anything

Yes. Very yes. However, exp/hour = shortest fights possible regardless of 'peaks', provided you are not so peaky there exists a possibility to lose chain. With capped hitrates for 3 good melee, this chance is zero (in a regular, decent merit party with a BRD or COR puller).

Well fuck now I did the peaky fairytale and my party's yelling at me.

[pchan]

for tanking chariots on mnk. hades santi or destroyers? mnk just turned 73 and will be tanking salvage once im 75

There is a lot of wrong info on Hades Sainti (NQ) vs Destroyers. HS are by far the best. Why ? Because you won't use sushi on a boss, abviously unless you use that belt that removes food lol.. Anyway here is the math :

Destroyers : +6 crit is only usefull on melee dmg (as opposed to WS) which generally represents 2/3 of your damage.

Hades Sainti : +7 accuracy turns out to be 3.5% increase in accuracy, so a bit more as far as total damage go. You typically get 85% depending on boss with meat, and you cap during focus. The 7 accuracy gives a boost to both melee damage and WS damage obviously.

Assume you do 100 dmg with a dmg 18 wpn (of the same same delay ...), with 85% accuracy. Base crit hit is 10% (with merits etc, don't expect anything better on anything in salvage). the 10%-> 16% turns out to be 5.4% increase in melee damage, but for only 66% of your total damage, so you'd do 70.25 dmg instead with destroyers for the exact same ws damage :

destroyers = 33.33+ 66.66*1.054=103.6 (3.6% increase)

The 7 accuracy affects ws damage and melee damage linearly so it's the same increase as 85% acc > 88.5% which is 4.1%.

Hades Sainti = 104.1

Hades sainti wins, and if you take into account that the 7 accuracy actually gets you TP faster, thus you do more weapon skills, it clearly is superior. If I had to give an acc% for which HS > destro it would be 92-93%.

Keep in mind that 7 eva, 7 enmity, 7 SB is also awesome for tanking.

[FailureMidgard]

Yes. Very yes. However, exp/hour = shortest fights possible regardless of 'peaks', provided you are not so peaky there exists a possibility to lose chain. With capped hitrates for 3 good melee, this chance is zero (in a regular, decent merit party with a BRD or COR puller).

Well fuck now I did the peaky fairytale and my party's yelling at me.

Play a bard in a merit party and you'll change your mind on that.

Spikey damage, while not necessarily lowering exp per hour in itself, does not up exp/hr either. Sometimes, you'll pull a mob to camp, and a few huge WSes will all go off, killing the bird in less than 10 seconds literally. There isn't a new bird in camp yet, and melee just gets to wait for the next one, which they then have no TP on, and kill in 24 seconds instead of the 18-20 seconds average or something. That does lower exp/hr.

Consistent damage in an exp camp is good, assuming the consistency is high. Spikey damage doesn't have to break chain to be less exp/hr than consistent.

[Cream Soda]

There is a lot of wrong info on Hades Sainti (NQ) vs Destroyers. HS are by far the best. Why ? Because you won't use sushi on a boss, abviously unless you use that belt that removes food lol.. Anyway here is the math :

Destroyers : +6 crit is only usefull on melee dmg (as opposed to WS) which generally represents 2/3 of your damage.

Hades Sainti : +7 accuracy turns out to be 3.5% increase in accuracy, so a bit more as far as total damage go. You typically get 85% depending on boss with meat, and you cap during focus. The 7 accuracy gives a boost to both melee damage and WS damage obviously.

Assume you do 100 dmg with a dmg 18 wpn (of the same same delay ...), with 85% accuracy. Base crit hit is 10% (with merits etc, don't expect anything better on anything in salvage). the 10%-> 16% turns out to be 5.4% increase in melee damage, but for only 66% of your total damage, so you'd do 70.25 dmg instead with destroyers for the exact same ws damage :

destroyers = 33.33+ 66.66*1.054=103.6 (3.6% increase)

The 7 accuracy affects ws damage and melee damage linearly so it's the same increase as 85% acc > 88.5% which is 4.1%.

Hades Sainti = 104.1

Hades sainti wins, and if you take into account that the 7 accuracy actually gets you TP faster, thus you do more weapon skills, it clearly is superior. If I had to give an acc% for which HS > destro it would be 92-93%.

Keep in mind that 7 eva, 7 enmity, 7 SB is also awesome for tanking.

You forget though, focus is 30 acc and will be up 2/5 minutes. Provided you're AT LEAST at 80% acc with destroyers, then hade's acc is now only an advantage 60% of the time as opposed to all the time (including ws as well), while the crits will be active regardless of focus.
Then you have -3 delay, for w/e that is worth.

[Greenjade]

What is better Root Beer or Cream Soda?


>.>;


Serious question, is there a huge difference between Prism Cape and Ixion Cape? Other then RDM not being able to equip Ixion?

[FailureMidgard]

What is better Root Beer or Cream Soda?


>.>;


Serious question, is there a huge difference between Prism Cape and Ixion Cape? Other then RDM not being able to equip Ixion?

That's a serious question?

The difference is +1 mental stats, +10mp, -30hp, -2enmity, -5physical stats.

Nobody here can answer if it's worth the price to you...

[Shinryuu]

Play a bard in a merit party and you'll change your mind on that.

Spikey damage, while not necessarily lowering exp per hour in itself, does not up exp/hr either. Sometimes, you'll pull a mob to camp, and a few huge WSes will all go off, killing the bird in less than 10 seconds literally. There isn't a new bird in camp yet, and melee just gets to wait for the next one, which they then have no TP on, and kill in 24 seconds instead of the 18-20 seconds average or something. That does lower exp/hr.

Consistent damage in an exp camp is good, assuming the consistency is high. Spikey damage doesn't have to break chain to be less exp/hr than consistent.

I do play BRD in merits, it's hard work, yes. It's managable with a trollbane or with not-epic melee.

Consistent damage vs. slightly lower consistent damage with occasional spike, yes, the first is preferred if total damage is equal. Kind of like you prefer stocks that are less volatile, if the expected return is the same. However, if the latter is more damage, the only thing that could make the first better is a potential chainbreak.

Plus, this is about rampager vs. perdu, claymore vs. pole. The better damage option is simply better, spikes or not, since the spike difference isn't that big; WAR is an initially 'spikey' job (double attacks, raging rush).

[Cream Soda]

Adressing Pchan's last post

Spoiler: show

Using dmt/hit and dmg/crit values from a random parse of mine

66.44 Melee average 126.08 crit average

80% acc vs 83.5% acc

1000 swings from both h2h, I'll give it a 5% marg of error in case u don't hit focus EXACTLY when the timer is up, so we'll call it 65% of the time 80 vs 83.5% and 35% of the time 95 vs 95


650 swings x 83.5% acc = 542.75 landed hits
650 swings x 80% acc = 520 landed hits

Focus up
350 swings x 95% acc = 332.5 landed hits

Hades: 875.25 landed hits
Destroyers: 852.5 landed hits

Let's say my crit rate is a solid 15% (This helping hades since crits have diminishing returns)

Hades: 875.25 landed hits x 15% crit rate = 131.2875 crits, 743.9625 regular hits.

Destroyers: 852.5 landed hits x 21% crit rate = 179.025 crits, 673.475 non crits

Using my crit vs non crit averages from my parse

Hades:
(743.9625 x 66.44) + (131.2875 x 126.08) = 65,981.5965 dmg

Destroyers:
(673.475 x 66.44) + (179.025 x 126.08) = 67,317.151 dmg

For mnk, 23 landed hits is going to get you more tp than 1 ws, but not enough for 2. We'll call it a 1k asuran

Destroyers: 67,317.151 dmg
Hades: 66,981.56965 Dmg

Bring back the 5% margain of error provided you DO use focus every time it's up, start with a lower base crit rate, or start with higher% acc, and destroyers are a shoe in to win.

Edited a word into my final conclusion that should have been there before.

[Shinryuu]

I missed the letters, my bad.

When I party I go by the mantra that exp/hr > anything, including some epeen parse numbers, so making sure every fight goes by as fast as possible > having any lull in my performance. Ramp/Pole was all about cranking out weirdly high WS averages with a 6 hit build, which means over time I do my part to put the current mob down and start the next.

Perdu/Pole tends to be more peaky than Ramp/Pole, or Perdu/Clay. Peaky numbers might look cool, but they don't favor total damage.

2 DA's per WS possible vs 5 Crits per WS possible, and 2% vs 3% makes it not as clearcut as you are implying, I'd suggest rerunning the math as it didn't come out as obvious as you might think.

Perdu versus Rampager now.

Say you have 87 STR in TP (72 base, Haub+1, Minuet earring, Forager's, Rajas). Bri, mobs that have 67 VIT, will skew the comparison in favor of Rampager, since Perdu will gain percentually less DMG. Now, you have 20 dSTR, meaning you gain 5 extra DMG.

Perdu: 101 DMG. Rampager: 92 DMG. Going from a blank D92 weapon, the increases of both are:
Perdu: (101-92)/92*100=9,78% increase. Note, this will be a bit less for WS, since secondary modifiers increase DMG, and you'll have more STR, also. Getting to that.

Rampager increase from a blank D92 weapon:
(pDIF+1 - pDIF)/pDIF * 0.06 * 100
For a pDIF of 2.0 (fairly likely): a 3% increase in both TP and WS damage (crits can proc on every WS hit and yield the same increase in damage for TP as for WS, considering RR doesn't increase pDIF)
For a pDIF of 1.5 (sometimes): a 4% increase in both TP and WS damage
For a pDIF of 1.0 (meh): a 6% increase!
For a pDIF of 0.5, where a crit triples your damage: a 12% increase. But you need to uninstall the game if you have such a low pDIF on a GAX WAR75.

As for WS and Perdu's increase:
Say +39 STR in WS for a total of 111 STR.
dSTR of 44, so +11 DMG from fSTR. WS mods add .35*111=38 DMG
Perdu:145 DMG Blank Rampager: 136 DMG
Perdu's increase: 6.62% increase in WS damage.

Say a WAR has a 50/50 TP/WS ratio, Perdu's total increase is roughly 8.2%. For rampager to have that, you'd need a pDIF of .73, or roughly 27% less attack than a mob has defense.

As far as spikes and consistency goes: since Perdu is the higher D weapon, its lowest weaponskills (no crits) will be higher than Rampager's, and its highest weaponskills (full crits) will be higher than Rampager's, too. Let's assume that a chain breaks when all three DD hit a very low WS twice and then some. With a Perdu, there's a small chance you're still keeping chain, as its low is higher than Rampager's low.

I don't understand how someone who's spent 6,000+ posts worth of time on the most well-informed FFXI forum still uses a rampager.

[ryskar]

Adressing Pchan's last post

Spoiler: show

Using dmt/hit and dmg/crit values from a random parse of mine

66.44 Melee average 126.08 crit average

80% acc vs 83.5% acc

1000 swings from both h2h, I'll give it a 5% marg of error in case u don't hit focus EXACTLY when the timer is up, so we'll call it 65% of the time 80 vs 83.5% and 35% of the time 95 vs 95


650 swings x 83.5% acc = 542.75 landed hits
650 swings x 80% acc = 520 landed hits

Focus up
350 swings x 95% acc = 332.5 landed hits

Hades: 875.25 landed hits
Destroyers: 852.5 landed hits

Let's say my crit rate is a solid 15% (This helping hades since crits have diminishing returns)

Hades: 875.25 landed hits x 15% crit rate = 131.2875 crits, 743.9625 regular hits.

Destroyers: 852.5 landed hits x 21% crit rate = 179.025 crits, 673.475 non crits

Using my crit vs non crit averages from my parse

Hades:
(743.9625 x 66.44) + (131.2875 x 126.08) = 65,981.5965 dmg

Destroyers:
(673.475 x 66.44) + (179.025 x 126.08) = 67,317.151 dmg

For mnk, 23 landed hits is going to get you more tp than 1 ws, but not enough for 2. We'll call it a 1k asuran

Destroyers: 67,317.151 dmg
Hades: 66,981.56965 Dmg

Bring back the 5% margain of error provided you DO use focus every time it's up, start with a lower base crit rate, or start with higher% acc, and destroyers are a shoe in to win.

Edited a word into my final conclusion that should have been there before.

What a surprise, Pchan is wrong again!

Anyway... question; War Brais vs Hecatomb Subligar for just plain Trick Attack? I'm an elv if it matters, and I'm kind of torn... 20 attack is quite a bit.

I'm not really willing to shell out the gil for Oily Trousers.

[Callisto]

Is a Smilodon Mantle +1 worth picking up for Steel Cyclone vs. Amemet+1?

[Aragon of Odin]

Good question, one I've always wondered too. I generally just stick with my Cerb but stacked with SA I'd like to know which would perform better as well.