Whats better?

[Lilswitche]

if i dont have G body or af2 body whats the next body you would use for rdm tanking >.>? seeing how seems my long post for shadowed. dusk?

Have Nashira Manteel?

[dejet]

dont have sea(as posted above) i guess best bet is to just get af2 body lol
this is my mule account that im gearing as a back up tank >.< only on 4-2

[Grenfang]

Darksteel +1

thanks, that's what i was leaning toward, just wanted to make sure.

[RyaWHM]

Okay, after asking several people in-game and getting varying responses ...

Here's the theory: if I have 13%hasteEQ/380acc, and I can choose between adding 30acc or adding another 13% hasteEQ ... then:

•assuming my hit rate at 380acc is 74% or higher (that's the big one)
and
•assuming I have the spell on (+15% haste) permanently
and
•ignoring WS acc for the moment (pretend it's 650acc during WS, whatever)

...then haste wins. Is this right? If not, please explain my bad maths to me!


Reasoning:

• Adding 30acc gives +15% hit rate, raising 74% to 89% hit rate.
89/74=1.2027 20.27% increase

• Adding 12.25%* haste raises 28% to 40.25% total.
72/59.75=1.2050 20.50% increase
*12.25 because EQ caps 26% at a 25.25% benefit?

so it's 20.27% versus 20.50% increase in hits.

----

Example below my magic 74% hit rate:
adding 30acc to a 70% hit rate would add 21.42% more swings (85/70=1.2142)

Example above my magic 74% hit rate:
adding 30acc to an 80% hit rate would add 18.75% more swings (95/80=1.1875)

----

So do I have some part of it completely wrong, that skews everything?

Am I even close?

It looks like any time my acc was above 74%, then haste would just win even more.

----

(PS: on what kinda mobs would 380acc give me 74% or better, anyway? is this realistic at all?)

[Shinryuu]

• Adding 12.25%* haste raises 28% to 40.25% total.
72/59.75=1.2050 20.50% increase
*12.25 because EQ caps 26% at a 25.25% benefit?

Correct math. Easy to see.

Adding 1% haste when you're at 98% haste doubles your damage. Going from 0% to 50% does too. The way you're calculating it means both outcomes would be 2, or a 100% increase, which fits.

Your hitrate math also works, of course.

Not exactly sure about the gear haste above 25% but it doesn't affect the way you calculate it so meh.

[Raen Ryong]

Easy way to calculate hitrate vs haste relative benefits;

Adding x% (PERCENT) accuracy is a relative increase of (x / old accuracy) * 100%
2acc = 1acc% remember!

Adding x% haste is a relative increase of [x / (100 - haste without x)] * 100%

Highest resulting % value wins.

In reality it represents the percentage increase in melee DoT and WS frequency but is not representative of the actual absolute % increase in damage (you'd have to work out DoT:WS ratios etc for that).

380acc will give you roughly ~80% on Greater Colibri level 82 (from the top of my head, could be inaccurate), so adjust from there.

And yeah, the more accuracy you have, the less impact adding more has. Opposite of Haste. Accuracy and haste largely do the same things but in reverse if you think of it that way.

[Aragon of Odin]

This was against a Bravura war, he did 1080 avg against my 1059 avg perdu/pole (this is an old parse i didnt have ebody at that time). Double march/minuets, war/sam x2, no dia and we didnt full time hasso, we basically have the same gear except for weapons, he didnt have a 6hit (he has now aurum body, both were using hauby+1 at that time)

SavedParse--27_03_2009--1222

I'm a little thrown off by this parse, maybe I'm reading it wrong but something just seems to be off. First thing is how in Gods name did the Bravura user get 100% ACC? I go out to E.Ron in full ACC gear and I miss hitting a damned bunny yet this guy can swing 617 times on G.Colibri and Wivre and not miss once? Same as the other person, Mellryn. I've got some damned good gear for my War and highest ACC on birds I ever recall parsing was 95.27%, it just seems a little off that 2 people never missed once in an entire merit party.

Also parse shows 8 people in party, with names like Lady & Omar I'd assume those are Wyvern names which would imply that 2 of the people there were DRG's, or am I missing something?

Also, I would gather you are Mugekuge seeing how he's the 1059 WS average person in the parse, why is your Ranged section of the parse have so much damage and R.Att's taken? Why would a Perdu War be ranged attacking 402 times in a fight? Just doesn't make any sense at all.

To the whole Perdu/Rampager talk, I hated my rampager, maybe I was never gearing right for it but my parses always parsed me under 1000 WS dmg AVG. I threw it a long time ago and haven't looked back since. I'm VERY satisfied with my Perdu, and until I get a Bravura the only other 2 GA's I'd use is M.Bhuj for SC spam and Fort. Axe for a quick zerg fight.

[pchan]

hades sainti vs waghs for pup?

Hades. Delay reduction > all as long as you keep the same damage.

[Killkenny]

I'm a little thrown off by this parse, maybe I'm reading it wrong but something just seems to be off. First thing is how in Gods name did the Bravura user get 100% ACC? I go out to E.Ron in full ACC gear and I miss hitting a damned bunny yet this guy can swing 617 times on G.Colibri and Wivre and not miss once? Same as the other person, Mellryn. I've got some damned good gear for my War and highest ACC on birds I ever recall parsing was 95.27%, it just seems a little off that 2 people never missed once in an entire merit party.

My guess is the parser he is using takes information from the log and he is using filters so there is no text when someone else misses. The acc cap for anything is 95% whether its Byakko or Wild Rabbits in E Ron.

As for the ranged section it might be that Retaliation is being recorded as ranged due to the similar text pattern it follows in the logs but that is just a guess.

[Aragon of Odin]

Didn't even think of that lol.

Edit: He's got misses in the what could be retaliation section, I've never noticed retaliation to miss before, is it possible that it can?

[mdkuser]

Okay, after asking several people in-game and getting varying responses ...

Here's the theory: if I have 13%hasteEQ/380acc, and I can choose between adding 30acc or adding another 13% hasteEQ ... then:

•assuming my hit rate at 380acc is 74% or higher (that's the big one)
and
•assuming I have the spell on (+15% haste) permanently
and
•ignoring WS acc for the moment (pretend it's 650acc during WS, whatever)

...then haste wins. Is this right? If not, please explain my bad maths to me!


Reasoning:

• Adding 30acc gives +15% hit rate, raising 74% to 89% hit rate.
89/74=1.2027 20.27% increase

• Adding 12.25%* haste raises 28% to 40.25% total.
72/59.75=1.2050 20.50% increase
*12.25 because EQ caps 26% at a 25.25% benefit?

so it's 20.27% versus 20.50% increase in hits.

----

Example below my magic 74% hit rate:
adding 30acc to a 70% hit rate would add 21.42% more swings (85/70=1.2142)

Example above my magic 74% hit rate:
adding 30acc to an 80% hit rate would add 18.75% more swings (95/80=1.1875)

----

So do I have some part of it completely wrong, that skews everything?

Am I even close?

It looks like any time my acc was above 74%, then haste would just win even more.

----

(PS: on what kinda mobs would 380acc give me 74% or better, anyway? is this realistic at all?)

your math is right. Generally speaking, for most gear slot where you chose between haste or accuracy, haste wins.. with a few exception.

For any realistic hit rate/haste setups ( 80%+ acc, and ~50% haste), I go by "5 acc gives roughly same benefits as 1% haste". For example:

O.hat is = to NQ tiger mask.
Tiger mask+1 better than O.hat.
Ace's helm > W.turban.
Usukane feet > fumas.
Dusk gloves> N. kote.
Speed belt > swift belt ( even though swift has some acc+).
dusk gloves+1 better than homam gloves.

Keep in mind that one piece will be superior to the other if you are either low on acc, caped at acc, low on haste or high on haste etc...

Also 380 total acc should give you 80% hit rate at MMJ merit camps, 85% at birds, 90% at caederva mire.

[Aragon of Odin]

Why do I always see people use 2 Acc = 1% hitrate? Is this the general consensus, because it just doesn't make sense at all, and this isn't directed at RyaWHM at all, it's something that I see used all the time over many many different threads. Wouldn't the Acc/Hitrate change all the time depending on what your base acc/hit rate was?

[mdkuser]

yes it does change, a lot. The formula is non-linear. The math is:

If ACC is your base accuracy% ( without equiping the pieces you want to compare).
If Hst% is your base haste% ( without equiping the pieces you want to compare).

Then 1% additional haste will be worth the same as ACC/(99-hst%). For example.

With 80% accuracy and 50% haste, 1% add. haste is worth 1,6 hit%, or 3.2 acuracy.

With 80% acc and 60% haste, 1% add. haste is worth 2% hit rate, or 4 acc.

With 90% acc and 60% haste( 2 hander, double march), 1% add. haste is worth 2.3% hit rate, or almost 5 acc.

Proves you for example that homam hands are better than dusk+1 in a non-double march situation.

[FailureMidgard]

Why do I always see people use 2 Acc = 1% hitrate? Is this the general consensus, because it just doesn't make sense at all, and this isn't directed at RyaWHM at all, it's something that I see used all the time over many many different threads. Wouldn't the Acc/Hitrate change all the time depending on what your base acc/hit rate was?

No, the relative value of accuracy/hitrate to other stats will change, but it's generally accepted that 2 accuracy on gear will result in 1% more of your total swings landing. That isn't saying it's a 1% increase in # of swings landed. Going from 50% hitrate to 51% hitrate is landing 2% more total hits in X time frame. It is still, however, landing 1% more of your total swings.

yes it does change, a lot. The formula is non-linear. The math is:

If ACC is your base accuracy% ( without equiping the pieces you want to compare).
If Hst% is your base haste% ( without equiping the pieces you want to compare).

Then 1% additional haste will be worth the same as ACC/(99-hst%). For example.

With 80% accuracy and 50% haste, 1% add. haste is worth 1,6 hit%, or 3.2 acuracy.

With 80% acc and 60% haste, 1% add. haste is worth 2% hit rate, or 4 acc.

With 90% acc and 60% haste( 2 hander, double march), 1% add. haste is worth 2.3% hit rate, or almost 5 acc.

Proves you for example that homam hands are better than dusk+1 in a non-double march situation.

While nothing you said is wrong necessarily, the guy is asking about the accuracy:hitrate relationship, not haste:accuracy. The accuracy:hitrate relation is linear. When you add in other stats, yea, the more acc you have, the better haste becomes. Also, the more haste you have, the better haste becomes. but it's pretty well accepted that 2 accuracy = 1 % hit, and that that is a linear relationship.

[Shinryuu]

ACC:hitrate is linear but the returns on hitrate, ceteris paribus, are decreasing. 25% to 50% hitrate takes 50 ACC and doubles your hitrate. Adding 90 ACC after that doesn't even double your damage.

[Thunder]

If this has been asked before, you can punch me in the jeans.

Hachiryu Sune-ate vs. any STR +3 feet for rng. WS build. Assume I have the best possible gear that an epic ranger would have in all other slots... oh, and for HNM. (hopefully that avoided the "mer its situational mmmkay"

Skadi

Skadi for sidewinder and hachiryu for slug? and Scout's +1 for damage for both?

[mdkuser]

oh I see my bad. But acc isnt really linear either due to lower and upper cap. for example a lv 1 char will have 20% chance of hitting a besieged mob. but gearing it with +150 acc won't make him capped on acc (if it was even possible).

[Kimkytaru]

Ok looking for some advice
I got a Monk pretty cool but without : Toreador's, Hollow's and Usu feet (got legs and hands).
Now I have blm and I'm currently leveling sam on my taru.

What would you think would be the best to buy :

Toreador's or Hauby +1 for my sam ?

I'm tending to Toreador's since both sam and Mnk can use it.

What you think ?

[Cream Soda]

If sam is your main go haub+1 if mnk is ur main go toreador's.

[Wolfknight]

Ok looking for some advice
I got a Monk pretty cool but without : Toreador's, Hollow's and Usu feet (got legs and hands).
Now I have blm and I'm currently leveling sam on my taru.

What would you think would be the best to buy :

Toreador's or Hauby +1 for my sam ?

I'm tending to Toreador's since both sam and Mnk can use it.

What you think ?

that depends, what rings do you use atm on them and do you prefer sam or mnk currently?