Whats better?

[Max™]

Gotta have a mob with low Str for Kabuto to really be noticeable, I put on a full on Vit setup for /Dnc curing and noticed when training some mobs for a friend that they were hitting for crap with all of it on.

Was lvl 30 something mobs though.

[Campbellkid]

What's better for SADE/TADE:

Hecatomb Leggings


or


Assassin's Poulaines?

[Raen Ryong]

Hecatomb Leggings. Consistency > random spike of 1% chance, generally speaking.

Not to mention the more triple attack you have, the less 1% does for you proportionately.

[Fng]

Which is better:

Rogues Roll w/ THF in party
Chaos w/o DRK in party

(no BRD)

Wasn't there a math formula about this I cant seem to find it..

[Genosync]

Which is better:

Rogues Roll w/ THF in party
Chaos w/o DRK in party

(no BRD)

Wasn't there a math formula about this I cant seem to find it..

... how the hell is this even comparable?

[Fng]

Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

[Genosync]

Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

Rouge's Roll is critical rate %+....

Chaos Roll is Attack%+...

asking which is better? That involves so many variables that you can't make a general statement on it. wiki.ffxiclopedia.com/wiki/Chaos Roll , if you want the numbers, dunno if it's on bgwiki or not.

[Turambar]

It seems like the only way to compare would be to calculate what the equivalent +attack would be for the increased hit rate, e.g. if crit rate is +5%, what amount of +attack would give the same DOT. Even if you could come up with an equation for it, it would probably depend on everything from what you're fighting to the moon phase, and the result would be different for every roll value =\ An 11 Chaos might be better than a 1 Rogue's, against Colibri, at 50% moon, on Thunderday, between 0:40 and 6:20, if Almighty Apkallu is spawned.

[Callisto]

42~ PLD, currently using a Kite Shield and was going to have it turned into a Heater, but a friend suggested I use my Balance Buckler instead for more procs/less spell interrupts. Capped Shield til about 65~ I think, so Size 3 vs. Buckler for XP?

[shukuffxi]

BLU Vorpal Blade / F.Rip / H.Barrage / Disseverment question for those math inclined:

I've been screwing around with a few builds, kind of difficult to tell which is better, listing relevant stats only:

Vorpal Blade: Volunteer's Brais (Acc+6) / Galliard Trousers (Acc+5 STR+2/DEX-2) / Denali Kecks (Acc+3/DEX+3)

F.Rip/H.Barrage/Disseverment: F.Rip and Disseverment are STR20%/DEX20% mods, H.Barrage is DEX30% (obviously STR helps too )

Back: Commander's Cape (STR+3 DEX+3) / Smilodon Mantle +1 (Used to have Commanders, been using Smilodon for a long time now though)

Legs: Volunteer's Brais (Acc+6) / Galliard Trousers (Acc+5 STR+2/DEX-2) / Denali Kecks (Acc+3/DEX+3). Currently using: Homam Cosciales.

Feet: Marine M Boots (STR+3/DEX+3) / Denali Gamashes (STR+3/Acc+5) Currently using: Denali Gamashes.

Gigas Bracelets already give hefty -DEX, and swapping out Commanders>Smilodon+1 and Marine M>Denali has left me feeling a little light in the DEX department, but I find it difficult to really tell consistantly which setup would work best. The other slots are all pretty cut and dry for what works best.

Relevant info: 8/8 Sword Skill, 5/5 STR, 4/4 Crit, 5/5 Homam, Fortitude Torque, Rajas, Acc Bonus I JT, etc. Prefer Sushi over Meat in most cases, spells seem to take to much of a hit without Sushi, unless I really sacrifice STR/DEX for Acc. Don't have 8/8 Blue Magic Skill, used to, but demeritted it for jobs I got to use a lot more often. Don't have Galliard Trousers yet, or Denali Kecks, but hopefully soon.

If it's testing I need to do personally, how would I go about it, for the spells? I know I can WS and check TP returns/damage/etc for Vorpal Blade.

[Ferien]

42~ PLD, currently using a Kite Shield and was going to have it turned into a Heater, but a friend suggested I use my Balance Buckler instead for more procs/less spell interrupts. Capped Shield til about 65~ I think, so Size 3 vs. Buckler for XP?

Heater will reduce 56% per block, Buckler 26%. Assume 55~65% proc rate for Buckler, gives you 14~17% overall reduction. 40~50% rate for Heater, 20~28%.

I don't know where the proc rates fall during xp (leveled way before it was changed) so I can't tell you anything for certain. The benefits though are increased TP gain and Spell Interruption vs up to a ~15% overall damage reduction. If you're relying on your Shield for spell interruption in XP, though, urdoinitrong. It's really easy to time Cures on xp mobs, and one of the key things you learn while xping is how to do it.

I'd say take the Heater over the Buckler, but it really depends on the proc rate of each, how much you value the extra TP you get from Shield Mastery, and how much you need the Spell Interruption reduction (i.e. how quickly the mob hits).

[Kylen]

[quote:3bt5xbvn]Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

Rouge's Roll is critical rate %+....

Chaos Roll is Attack%+...

asking which is better? That involves so many variables that you can't make a general statement on it. wiki.ffxiclopedia.com/wiki/Chaos Roll , if you want the numbers, dunno if it's on bgwiki or not.[/quote:3bt5xbvn]
While Chaos Roll was almost doubled in strength in the Sept. '07 update, Rogue's Roll was actually made weaker, according to some semi-questionable data on the JP wiki.

Using optimal double-up strategies for each roll, your expected value for Chaos Roll without a DRK is ~+18.5% Attack (ranging between 3.8% and 31% on XI), slightly higher if you factor in Snake Eye and Fold/Random Deal on bust. Expected value for Rogue's Roll with a THF in the party is only ~+11.5% critical hit rate (ranging between 6% and 20% on XI), again not counting the effect of Snake Eye and Fold.

Simply based on eyeballing those numbers and not going into the complicated/situational math of comparing Attack to Critical Hit Rate, I would personally tend to go for the ~18% Attack over the ~11% Critical Hit Rate, at least if there was no BRD in the party singing Minuets already as your example states.

[chapstick]

Chaos roll will affect everyone's DoT and WS damage, where crit rate will only help certain WS's. I take Chaos over Rogue's any day.

[Genosync]

[quote:2zfap6tc]Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

Rouge's Roll is critical rate %+....

Chaos Roll is Attack%+...

asking which is better? That involves so many variables that you can't make a general statement on it. wiki.ffxiclopedia.com/wiki/Chaos Roll , if you want the numbers, dunno if it's on bgwiki or not.

While Chaos Roll was almost doubled in strength in the Sept. '07 update, Rogue's Roll was actually made weaker, according to some semi-questionable data on the JP wiki.

Using optimal double-up strategies for each roll, your expected value for Chaos Roll without a DRK is ~+18.5% Attack (ranging between 3.8% and 31% on XI), slightly higher if you factor in Snake Eye and Fold/Random Deal on bust. Expected value for Rogue's Roll with a THF in the party is only ~+11.5% critical hit rate (ranging between 6% and 20% on XI), again not counting the effect of Snake Eye and Fold.

Simply based on eyeballing those numbers and not going into the complicated/situational math of comparing Attack to Critical Hit Rate, I would personally tend to go for the ~18% Attack over the ~11% Critical Hit Rate, at least if there was no BRD in the party singing Minuets already as your example states.[/quote:2zfap6tc]

it also depends on what weapon skills your party is using (ones that TP affects rate of critical hits), as well as the resistances/weaknesses to weapon types of the mob you're fighting... this isn't a cut and dry kinda thing that you can just go one way or the other on eyeballing it, or even two or three parse comparisons. takes too much testing to make a good, solid statement.

[Callisto]

[quote:1fth3g4i]Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

Rouge's Roll is critical rate %+....

Chaos Roll is Attack%+...

asking which is better? That involves so many variables that you can't make a general statement on it. wiki.ffxiclopedia.com/wiki/Chaos Roll , if you want the numbers, dunno if it's on bgwiki or not.

While Chaos Roll was almost doubled in strength in the Sept. '07 update, Rogue's Roll was actually made weaker, according to some semi-questionable data on the JP wiki.

Using optimal double-up strategies for each roll, your expected value for Chaos Roll without a DRK is ~+18.5% Attack (ranging between 3.8% and 31% on XI), slightly higher if you factor in Snake Eye and Fold/Random Deal on bust. Expected value for Rogue's Roll with a THF in the party is only ~+11.5% critical hit rate (ranging between 6% and 20% on XI), again not counting the effect of Snake Eye and Fold.

Simply based on eyeballing those numbers and not going into the complicated/situational math of comparing Attack to Critical Hit Rate, I would personally tend to go for the ~18% Attack over the ~11% Critical Hit Rate, at least if there was no BRD in the party singing Minuets already as your example states.

it also depends on what weapon skills your party is using (ones that TP affects rate of critical hits), as well as the resistances/weaknesses to weapon types of the mob you're fighting... this isn't a cut and dry kinda thing that you can just go one way or the other on eyeballing it, or even two or three parse comparisons. takes too much testing to make a good, solid statement.[/quote:1fth3g4i]

That's the same way I decide sometimes, by what WS' people are using. If it's like THF WAR WAR with Spampage/Vorpal action then I'd maybe think about going w/ THF, though I'd think the person who'd actually get shafted would be the THF themselves b/c I rarely see THFs use Evisceration. Otherwise I just base it on what the BRD is doing, if they're Min/Mad I'm Chaos/???usually Sam b/c there's usually a SAM in the party), if there's a RNG I tell them to Minx2 or Min/March and use Hunter's, but shit, situational, etc.

Overall I think Chaos even without a DRK is likely to affect XP/hr more than Rogue's w/ a THF, but I definitely have no #'s to back that up and it's just baseless opinion.

[Genosync]

[quote:3v3gj6l1]Maybe I missed an update, thought rolls were weak w/o the correlating job in the party?

Edit: I thought I saw something about assuming double on < 6 (cept lucky) there was an average that each buff gave over time...

Rouge's Roll is critical rate %+....

Chaos Roll is Attack%+...

asking which is better? That involves so many variables that you can't make a general statement on it. wiki.ffxiclopedia.com/wiki/Chaos Roll , if you want the numbers, dunno if it's on bgwiki or not.

While Chaos Roll was almost doubled in strength in the Sept. '07 update, Rogue's Roll was actually made weaker, according to some semi-questionable data on the JP wiki.

Using optimal double-up strategies for each roll, your expected value for Chaos Roll without a DRK is ~+18.5% Attack (ranging between 3.8% and 31% on XI), slightly higher if you factor in Snake Eye and Fold/Random Deal on bust. Expected value for Rogue's Roll with a THF in the party is only ~+11.5% critical hit rate (ranging between 6% and 20% on XI), again not counting the effect of Snake Eye and Fold.

Simply based on eyeballing those numbers and not going into the complicated/situational math of comparing Attack to Critical Hit Rate, I would personally tend to go for the ~18% Attack over the ~11% Critical Hit Rate, at least if there was no BRD in the party singing Minuets already as your example states.

it also depends on what weapon skills your party is using (ones that TP affects rate of critical hits), as well as the resistances/weaknesses to weapon types of the mob you're fighting... this isn't a cut and dry kinda thing that you can just go one way or the other on eyeballing it, or even two or three parse comparisons. takes too much testing to make a good, solid statement.

That's the same way I decide sometimes, by what WS' people are using. If it's like THF WAR WAR with Spampage/Vorpal action then I'd maybe think about going w/ THF, though I'd think the person who'd actually get shafted would be the THF themselves b/c I rarely see THFs use Evisceration. Otherwise I just base it on what the BRD is doing, if they're Min/Mad I'm Chaos/???usually Sam b/c there's usually a SAM in the party), if there's a RNG I tell them to Minx2 or Min/March and use Hunter's, but shit, situational, etc.

Overall I think Chaos even without a DRK is likely to affect XP/hr more than Rogue's w/ a THF, but I definitely have no #'s to back that up and it's just baseless opinion.[/quote:3v3gj6l1]

Everything but Colibri: Yes
Colibri: No

in my experience

but I also normally had a THF with a damn X's Knife that begged for Rogue's Roll and I complied

[Vaxx]

Justice Torque or Sea Gorget for SAM WS, in terms of average ws damage.

Thanks in advance.

[Max™]

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33084&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

Halfway down, Kirschy estimates that Gorget is worth roughly 15 Str (ignoring the Attack you'd get from that strength) in the slot, given how fTP works as a multiplier, while fStr and WS mods are straight addition to the damage, it makes sense.

10+0.1 x 2.0 is 20.2
10 x 2.1 is 21

Takes a lot more than you can get on the left side to beat the .1 on the right side, so go with the .1, basically.

[Mugekuge]

More Crits, better average return per 100% TP vs Higher max hit/crit/WS damage, but a bit more fluctuation.

I still haven't gotten much luck at getting closer to Perdu to directly parse them, but I notice the difference any time I swap to Byakko's.

Besides the flat 6% Crit drop, going from say, 750ish on a no-critter, to 1700 on a full hit crit, then back down to an 880 single crit, compared to 850, 1565, 950, 1250, 910, 1100 all day long.*

*Note: Those are not direct numbers, just an example of how randomly my Byakko's RR's jump up and down, and how exaggerated it feels after getting used too the Rampager cranking em out consistently.


Edit: I wonder how workable the math would be for that, comparing the added Crit %, it's effect on WS damage/average, versus the higher base damage, like the man/rid vs bravura one up the page.

Hey Max, i want to do some comparisons with your rampager if you can post some parse info here would be nice, this was a party i had today 1 brd, min/march, i tried osode, snow gorget and war relic hat(116 dex) on ws when aggresor up, and hauby when aggresor down:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgdr6nsq_6hfhm4qgd


913,2 average ws today, went up a bit now, compared with other parses when i barely got to 900 avg with 1 brd. I have war mask-1, lol thinking in buy some coins and get +1 it or buy an unicorn cap.


Edit: just did another party, same setup than one in afternoon, min/march, but this time i was war/sam:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgdr6nsq_7hhqqmwd3

I think i read wasn't possible to get 22tp return from RR, i got it, too bad it doesn't show mob dieing by RR, i hit print screen buttom as fast i could :

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4...0010706yh3.jpg

[zard1977]

For ranger tp and ws: Skadi cuirie or Osode?

For ranger ws: Skadi hands or Seiryu's kote?

I am using bolts mainly.