Whats better?

[Starr]

Ignoring Cross Counters should I use TM Hooks+2 or Spartan Cesti til Destroyers?

[Hyriu]

TM Hooks +1

[NovioNovioNovio]

does anyone have a link to the graph that shows the effiectiveness of MDB vs MDMG-%?

Also, as for PLD magic resistance set,

MDMG taken- or MDB?
I\'ve read that you need to cap your MDMG first before focusing on MDB,
but i\'ve also seen many PLDs with MDB in almost every slot,
so whats better?

[Hyriu]

Magic Damage taken until you're at 25%(Shellra V Lv3) then stack MDB.

1MDB is something like just a little less than 1% MDT and has decreasing returns afaik.

[Cream Soda]

Ignoring Cross Counters should I use TM Hooks+2 or Spartan Cesti til Destroyers?

Never spartan cesti

[mdkuser]

Ignoring Cross Counters should I use TM Hooks+2 or Spartan Cesti til Destroyers?

pretty sure cross counter are inferior to TM hooks if you dont tank of course.

[Cream Soda]

From what I understand, they've always been shown to parse about even and probably not now, but back in he day before drgs and sams were rippin birds a new asshole, used to pull a fairly decent amount of hate with my X-counters, so the counter+ was always nice

[Starr]

Never spartan cesti

Once upon a time I wtf'd a MNK using Spartan Cesti and I was told they are best non-Destroyers hands lulz (before Hades Sainti etc existed).

[Cream Soda]

You were correct to wtf at them

[oldoldman]

Ignoring Cross Counters should I use TM Hooks+2 or Spartan Cesti til Destroyers?

Tropical punches +1!

But for real spartan cesti were only ever good during the days of delay based multihit ws TP returns.

[FailureMidgard]

I'll assume 420 attack without body during WS, 85% acc, coeurl sub (80 att) and minuet (60 att).


[Togi+1]
attack : 665 > 691
acc : 85%>90.5%
assume 330 def enemies (MMJ) with 7 more levels
pdif : 1.598 > 1.692 ( ~ 0.42% increase per attack thanks to boost)
dmg : 60 > 74 (assuming 7 fstr, and that STR/VIT mods add 14 dmg)
total=74*1.692*8*0.905=906.5 dmg

[haramaki]
attack : 665 > 669
acc : 85%>93%
pdif : 1.612
dmg : 60 > 74+2 (8 str adds 2 base dmg)
total = 76*1.612*8*0.93=911.5

Note : if the 8 str give you another dmg from the mod (usually you need +13 to add 1 damage), then it's ~ 923.5

[Mirke]
attack : 665 > 677
acc : 85%>91.25%
pdif : 1.641
dmg : 74+1
total=75*1.641*8*0.9125=898.5

note : if the 5 str add 1 more dmg from the mods it's 910.4


On uncapped acc, Haramaki seems a bit better, plus it should give a bit more tp returns (additional hits would give 1.1 tp instead of 1.0). Of course the lower the acc, the better the haramaki. On capped acc :

togi +1 : 74*1.692*8=1001.6
haramaki : 76*1.612*8=980 ( 993 if you gain an additionnal dmg from mods)
mirke : 75*1.641*8=984.6 ( 997.8 if ..)
osode : 76*1.616*8=982.5 (995.5 if ..)

Should Osode there be 995.5 base with ~+13 higher than that if it adds 2 from the mods? Since you're pretty much guaranteed 1 from mods...

[Fridell]

How often, in general, is it worth to WS with Ares's Flanchard instead of Haidates for Raging Rush?
Atm I use Ares for Steel, but not so sure about them for RR considering the whole DEX thing, I assume I just end up using them both for different stuff in the end anyways.
WAR just dinged 75 few days ago.

[pchan]

Should Osode there be 995.5 base with ~+13 higher than that if it adds 2 from the mods? Since you're pretty much guaranteed 1 from mods...

It can add 2 dmg yes in which case it's better than shura+1. I'm not just too sure if the WSC is calculated by floor(0.10*(str+vit)) or floor(0.10*str)+floor(0.10*vit)

[OgriBones]

How often, in general, is it worth to WS with Ares's Flanchard instead of Haidates for Raging Rush?
Atm I use Ares for Steel, but not so sure about them for RR considering the whole DEX thing, I assume I just end up using them both for different stuff in the end anyways.

Well I think Byakko's Haidates works better on Raging Rush, However Ares's Flanchard works best on Steel and as well King's Justice once you get it.

[Starr]

Tropical punches +1!

Didn't someone come on BG recently claiming they can beat Destroyers? Would like to see parse if was proven.

[Rhoa]

Homam Zuccetto or Walahra Turban for THF TP.

Before anyone replies, I am actually aware that W.Turban beats Homam. However, there are people who don't take my word. I am not a math whiz, so I can't exactly spew out the actual DPS calculations, therefore I am stuck with saying that my stance is based off of reading BG. I am often ridiculed for this, sometimes in a joking manner, but obviously people think I just read an explanation here without minding the reasoning and regurgitate it out to everyone, which is not true. I know enough to get the basic understanding out of the mathematical equations posted on these forums, just not enough to reproduce them on the spot. If someone would be so kind as to give me some numbers on the subject I would greatly appreciate the help.

[Raen Ryong]

Logical maths below for Turban vs Zucchetto.

Spoiler: show

Best case scenario for Homam Zucchetto: 0 Haste except Turban.

Therefore, improvement in haste of Turban over Zucchetto is 2%.

4 accuracy difference is a difference of 2% accuracy.

Haste improvements are modelled as (x / 100 - haste without x) where x is the % increase.
Accuracy improvements are (x / original).

Therefore, to find at what % Accuracy the two percent from Zucchetto outdoes 2% Haste in this worst case scenario, you're looking at;

(2 / 100 - 3) = 2 / x

2 / 97 = 2 / x
Therefore 2x = 194
x = 97%, so accuracy of above 97% is when the Haste will start to win. As you can see, if you have ZERO haste besides the head slot, Zucchetto will always emerge triumphant.

However, this is hardly realistic.

The equation can be remodelled as;

(2 / 100 - y) = 2 / x

x is the accuracy% to be found and y is the haste you have with 3% from the zucchetto and the other slots, if that makes sense.

Input y, find x.

To give a few examples,

Imagine you have

Turban/Dusk/Swift/Dusk. Pretty much "AH" build, with no haste spell or marches. Take the head slot as 3, 3 hands, 4 belt, 2 feet; 12 is therefore your value of y.

(2 / 100 - 12) = 2 / x

2 / 88 = 2 / x
2x = 176
x = 88% or higher accuracy for Turban to win.

Notice something? Your external haste taking head slot as 3 is also the value of accuracy% you need above to make the Turban win. This is because 2 is the value of both numerators, so (100 - y) = x.

Conclusion: External haste counting head slot as 3 wearing a Turban is the value of %accuracy where the Turban wins if you have above that %accuracy.

[Redshift]

Made a mistake in simplification, Raen is correct.

Spoiler: show

If you assume ACC+2 = ACC+1%, then you can compare the increase in damage of haste% vs acc%.

H1 is inital haste%, H2 is final haste%, A1 is initial ACC%, A2 is final ACC%

[(1-H2)^-1 - (1-H1)^-1 ]/ (1-H1)^-1 = (A2-A1)/A1

Which simplifies to; H2/(1-H2) = (A2-A1)/A1

So, how can we use that to prove your friends to be pretty dumb? Let's assume that using turban over homam brings your haste from 18% to 20%, ACC+4 is equal to ACC+2% (A2-A1). So...we can find at what initial ACC% you need for both to be equal.

If you plug in the numbers, you'll see that Haste from 18% to 20% is equal to ACC going from 8% to 10%. ACC has diminishing returns the more you increase it. 8% to 10% is below the lowest possible ACC% (20%). Meaning, even if you had the lowest possible ACC% (20%), walahra would still be better. If you do 3% to 5% haste, the increase in damage would be going from ACC 38% to 40%, which is still unrealistic.

Raen Ryong has an error, it should be final haste/(100-final haste). Easy way to prove it is if you used 97% -> 99% haste, it would be ACC 33% using his equation, which doesn't make sense because you're attacking 100 times faster at 99% haste and only 33 times faster at 97%. No way in hell would any ACC be better than 2% haste there.

tl;dr homam never wins.

[Raen Ryong]

Are you sure your numbers are correct? :O

Haste 18 => 20 is an improvement of 2 / (100 - 18 ) = 2.44% DoT/WS
Accuracy 8 => 10 if you could do it is an improvement of 2 / 8 = 25% DoT/WS

[Cream Soda]

Could just do it the same way I did my usu head vs turban model