Whats better?

[noodles355]

This is pretty much true; also have to remember that this is strictly speaking TAMandalic, as soon as you throw in SA or SATA, DEX is gonna be superior.

AGI added will only be multiplied by pdif and not fTP, which isn't such an issue on Mandalic Stab since most of its damage comes from an elevated pdif, but on Shark Bite the fTP is hefty (2~3+) so combined with a 50% DEX mod, you're always gonna want DEX generally. Hybrid Pieces like Denali Kecks have a place in a TASharkBite build.

How do you go about using hybrid pieces like emp pin/denali kecks for TASB, without using them in solo TA or SASB ._.? Am I just gonna have to have 2 shark bite macros?

[Thorny]

How do you go about using hybrid pieces like emp pin/denali kecks for TASB, without using them in solo TA or SASB ._.? Am I just gonna have to have 2 shark bite macros?

spellcasttttttt

[Khajit]

This is pretty much true; also have to remember that this is strictly speaking TAMandalic, as soon as you throw in SA or SATA, DEX is gonna be superior.

AGI added will only be multiplied by pdif and not fTP, which isn't such an issue on Mandalic Stab since most of its damage comes from an elevated pdif, but on Shark Bite the fTP is hefty (2~3+) so combined with a 50% DEX mod, you're always gonna want DEX generally. Hybrid Pieces like Denali Kecks have a place in a TASharkBite build.

yah i noted that and this was just a basic explanation for him since it's quite easy to dumb things down and figure out within seconds which piece is better without resorting to excessive levels of algebra. When it gets hard to tell which is better from the rough estimations when you can break out the "hard" math but there's no reason to bother when you can get the needed answer without doing tons of calculations. When i mentioned mandalic stab i called it "stab" as well to point out that i was talking about that ws specifically.

[fantasticdan]

Having gone through this now, I need to correct myself in a thread a few months back where I suggested that Mirage and Orc Helm were essentially equivalent except on CA, this is clearly not the case unless there is more to Blue Magic Skill's effect on BLU physical than is already understood. Maat's Cap will obviously be even better.

So would even voyager sallet be better than mirage head for CA diss/FR?

[Raen Ryong]

yah i noted that and this was just a basic explanation for him since it's quite easy to dumb things down and figure out within seconds which piece is better without resorting to excessive levels of algebra. When it gets hard to tell which is better from the rough estimations when you can break out the "hard" math but there's no reason to bother when you can get the needed answer without doing tons of calculations. When i mentioned mandalic stab i called it "stab" as well to point out that i was talking about that ws specifically.

Oh yeah, it wasn't a criticism your explanation was good, I just wanted to add a little to it.

[Yugl]

So would even voyager sallet be better than mirage head for CA diss/FR?

This would interest me as well. I'm currently not in a Dynamis LS so I plan on buying the AF Helm; but, if it's not better than Gnads, I might as well save the gil (Though I like 100% Base DMG+ compared to the other percentages).

[Suiram]

This would interest me as well. I'm currently not in a Dynamis LS so I plan on buying the AF Helm; but, if it's not better than Gnads, I might as well save the gil (Though I like 100% Base DMG+ compared to the other percentages).

Having now looked at it carefully in the above post, were I in the situation you describe (having Gnad Helm and would have to part with gil for Mirage) I wouldn't bother with Mirage. The 100% on Base DMG+ is misleading. If it wasn't clear, Gnad is always at least +2 base damage on Fren/Dissev, and usually more, while on Hysteric Barrage it's only less Base dmg 6.6% of the time, and it's greater half the time on Non-CA, and 87% of the time on CA.

The only thing you're really missing from AF2 aside from that 6.6% of the time on Hysteric Barrage, is whatever "attack" Blue Skill is giving you in that 17% on Fren/Dissev Non-CA and 43% on HB when the base damages are equal.

I'll have to look at Voyagers a little later.

[lolwut]

Blau/Joy vs Joy/Justice for Rdm.

Stones aren't an issue, I'm usually swimming in extra stones from farming in Sea. Suppa and 4 Sword merits (12 total skill) in favor of sword/sword. Money isn't an issue.

Which is best for overall dmg output while farming? Blau is fast, hits hard, has great stat bonuses, and Evisceration puts out better than native Rdm ws. The constant double attack of Justice is nice for spamming a constant +20 enspell dmg, and the str while not amazing doesn't hurt for ws.

Survey says?

[Thorny]

joy/justice, get death blossom if you don't have it

[Suiram]

Voyagers: Adds +0 from fSTR 25% of the time, adds +1 75% of the time. On Hysteric Barrage WSC is the same as Orc helm, +0 for 13.2% of players, +1 for 73.2%, +2 for 13.6%. On Fren/Dissev, WSC is +0 for 10.2%, +1 for 63.4%, and +2 for 26.4%.

So Voyagers on Fren/Dissev:
Non-CA - +0 2.55%, +1 23.5%, +2 54.15%, +3 19.8%
CA - +0 2.55%, +1 7.65%, +2 15.85%, +3 47.55%, +4 6.6%, +5 19.8%

Voyagers on Hyst Barr:
Non-CA - +0 3.3%, +1 28.2%, +2 58.3%, +3 10.2%
CA - +0 3.3%, +1 9.9%, +2 18.3%, +3 54.9%, +4 3.4%, +5 10.2%

[Yugl]

Having now looked at it carefully in the above post, were I in the situation you describe (having Gnad Helm and would have to part with gil for Mirage) I wouldn't bother with Mirage. The 100% on Base DMG+ is misleading. If it wasn't clear, Gnad is always at least +2 base damage on Fren/Dissev, and usually more, while on Hysteric Barrage it's only less Base dmg 6.6% of the time, and it's greater half the time on Non-CA, and 87% of the time on CA.

The only thing you're really missing from AF2 aside from that 6.6% of the time on Hysteric Barrage, is whatever "attack" Blue Skill is giving you in that 17% on Fren/Dissev Non-CA and 43% on HB when the base damages are equal.

I'll have to look at Voyagers a little later.

Well I'm glad it didn't drop then (Saved me some gil). I'll be looking into SCNMs it seems, thanks for the calculations.

[Dathus]

I asked this question back a few pages, but I'm re-vamping it a little bit:
DRG TP:
Askar vs Ace's vs Walmart Turban

Full polearm merits, most of the time with a BRD(but usually get March/Minuet as songs), and: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Dathus/DRGTP.jpg

As well, for WSing, what would be a good leg piece to aim for? Currently just using Drachen+1 and don't have Drakes yet but JUST about to start climbing Nyzul Isle to get it so that's a non-issue.
Penta WS items:

Wyrm Armet +1 vs Voyager Sallet(waiting on Einherjar or Faffy to give me my N.Head)

Drachen Brais +1 vs Hecatomb Legs vs Ares's Flanchard

Drachen Finger Gauntlets +1 vs Hecatomb mittens


In addition, just a question that would go in "randomer questions" thread, but I'll condense it here: What would a DRG need to make a 5/6-Hit build? (it's 7AM and I've been up since yesterday, can't sleep. Forget which it is =/) /SAM, Brutal, Rajas, Askar body and...?

[Velecic]

I'm not a DRG so I can't answer the other questions about gearsets, I can however answer the question about X-hit build. It's actually pretty easy. Wiki has the formulas for TP Gain, but I can put it here for you. Basically the STP you need depends on weapon delay and base TP gain. Assuming Thalassocrat (since that's in your pic):

Delay : 492
TP gain for this weapon would be : 13.0 + [(Delay - 480) * 1.5 / 50]
Which works out to : 13.36, truncated to 13.3 TP / hit base

5-hit is obvious, requiring 20 TP per hit to get 100% in 5 hits, 6-hit is 16.7TP/swing required to get 100% (100.2 technically)

To go from getting 13.3 TP / Hit Base to:

6-hit build (16.7TP/hit) : 3.4 more tp/hit, 3.4/13.3 = .2556, or 26% (rounded up) more TP/swing to get 6-hit.

5-hit build (20.0TP/hit) : 6.7 more tp/hit, 6.7/13.3 = .5037 or 51% (rounded up) more TP/swing to get 5-hit.

Store TP is really simple honestly, the # of STP on the gear (example : Brutal Earring STP+1) actually converts to a percentage more TP per attack round, meaning you need :

+26 STP (26% more TP/hit) to get a 6-hit build or +51 STP (51% more TP/hit) to get a 5-hit build.

/SAM - 15 STP - Store TP II Trait @ 30
Rajas Ring - 5 STP
Brutal Earring - 1 STP
Askar Body - 5 STP

Convenient, exactly +26 STP! This would be the exact amount you need to 6-hit a Thalassocrat. If you don't have or want to use one of those pieces, you'd need to make the STP up somewhere else. Remember, if for some reason you're using a 1-hit weaponskill (assuming you wouldn't be on DRG, but just in case) you'd need to keep +26STP on during WS to maintain your 6-hit build, otherwise you'll wind up at like 99% and be a sad DD =(.

Assuming you're wearing the same standard gear, a 5-hit can be attained only one way, and that's with SAM roll (at least I'm pretty sure you can't get +51 STP from /SAM, Food, and Gear, correct me if I'm wrong someone), which varies based on # hit of course, but will probably average around ~20 STP without SAM, and ~30 with a SAM in party. Due to the randomness of corsair rolls though most people don't really build for 5-hit, since you'd need varying amounts of STP to keep up based on the roll. Hope that helps!

[mdkuser]

I asked this question back a few pages, but I'm re-vamping it a little bit:
DRG TP:
Askar vs Ace's vs Walmart Turban

Askar: never

Ace's: HNM

anything else: turban

[lolwut]

joy/justice, get death blossom if you don't have it

I have a Death Blossom ws build already made, and it does fairly well. Thanks for confirming, I didn't feel like dropping 3m just to test Blau, but hate feeling like I'm settling for less.

[Wolfknight]

Askar: never

Ace's: HNM

anything else: turban

Show math like 12 times, turban only better if very high acc or haste, quit just saying turban, you're ignoring math that says otherwise, Askar will be better on most stuff unless you're capped acc, and also it's better ws piece than two things he mentioned but if get ace no reason to tp in askar besides solo I suppose.
and about ws:

Drachen Brais +1 vs Hecatomb Legs vs Ares's Flanchard

Drachen Finger Gauntlets +1 vs Hecatomb mittens

For legs I'd say Ares vs Heca is close call whichever easier for you to get is fine, aurum/askar are better then AF+1 til them if want something. Hands Will be close heca slightly better but AF+1 not terrible by any means.

[lolwut]

Mahatma vs Nimue's vs Duelist's legs for nuking during solos.

I've been having better luck against resists with Duelists, and Nimue/Mahatma are back and forth on dmg when I eyeball them. Any suggestions on how to maximize the usage of the three?

[mdkuser]

Show math like 12 times, turban only better if very high acc or haste, quit just saying turban, you're ignoring math that says otherwise, Askar will be better on most stuff unless you're capped acc, and also it's better ws piece than two things he mentioned but if get ace no reason to tp in askar besides solo I suppose.
and about ws:
.

Askar head sucks, 4 str 4 dex will never beat 1% haste. Correction: it will beat it when your accuracy is so low that you better eat pizza or even sushi. I guess its ok as a swap piece for high evasive mobs. For ace's its different because turban beats it only near cap accuracy (7 acc is huge).

I've yet to see an askar DD be it sam drk drg or war, using askar head, that comes even close to my unmerited sam. I'll admit though that this kind of DD generally uses askar body and gloves as well. 2% haste is nothing people, its all about dex! The day I'll find one that beats me I'll believe you, and my sam is far from awsome. I can post the maths if you want:


- askar will give more hits than turban only under 67% acc ( 3 ac vs 1% haste, no way 3 acc will win).

- ok but askar makes you hit harder. 4 str=+1 dmg to your weapon. On my hagun sam, going from 79 to 80 dmg on typical MMJ with ~80 vit, its 1.2% melee dmg increase. DRG DRK WAR have higher dmg rating weapon so its less relative increase ( most likely less than 1%).

- taking the above into account, askar will do more dmg under 82% accuracy ( assuming 1/3 melee 2/3 ws): it's not an acceptable accuracy. The exact number will vary with different set ups/jobs/mobs, so I didn't show any maths, and don't take this exact 82% for granted. All you need to know is that when askar beats turban , your accuracy blows, unlike turban vs. ace's.


- +4 dex doesn't give you any decent critical hit rates generally, unless you fight real weak mobs ( colibris) but then turban is still better. Crit builds dont work in merit pt by the way, except on the weaker mobs ( colibris, puks, MMJ whm...) on which you cap accuracy NP.

- If you dont believe what I wrote above, look at what happens at capped accuracy ( puks, colibris, whm MMJ etc..). I can do the whole maths here if you want to read it.

As haste I have 14% gear haste not counting head, and typically march ( 11%), haste spell (15%) and hasso (10%). Obviously, if you have less haste, askar will be less crappy , but still be inferior. Total 55% with turban, 54% with askar. And I'm assuming the guy using askar head is not stupid and uses dusk gloves.

Maths:

Spoiler: show

Say you do N melee hits in a given time, without any haste.

With turban you'll do

N1= N*0.95/(1-0.55) melee hits, and
W1=N1/5 weapon skills.

With an average melee dmg M and weapon skill average W. If you do 1/3 melee and 2/3 ws dmg then W=10*M ok...

Im ignoring meditate because it will be the same dmg on both parts of the equation...

With askar: say the 4 str and 4 dex increase your average melee dmg by x%. I'll put x in a fraction form... x=1.012 if you improve by 1.2% etc..

You do N2 hits and W2 weapons skills.

N2= N*0.95/(1-0.54) melee hits for M*x average dmg.
W2=N2/5 ws for W avg dmg.

The damage you do with turban is

DMG1=N1*M+W1*W

The damage you do with askar is

DMG2=N2*M*x+W2*W.

I'll let you solve this equation... I find

DMG2>DMG1 is equivalent to (x+2)/0.46>3/0.45 so x> 1.06666

Yes askar needs to improve your melee dmg by 6.6% in order to beat turban. Considering 4 str improves it by only 1% ish ( depending on mob's vit and your str), the dex will never make up for the remainder lol. It'd be generous if it improves it by 0.5%.

well at 95% acc askar is nowhere close to turban, so you can imagin that it beats it only when your accuracy blows.

[Thunder]

Could you do some math on hachiryu kote vs dusk gloves for sam, pwease?

Have them for rng kc tp and just curious on how it stacks up for sam usage.

[Raen Ryong]

12.5~ accuracy vs Attack+5 Haste+3%

Attack5 is very small, something like 1.1%~ DoT only.

12.5accuracy is 6.25% hitrate on average, using a 85% accuracy base,

6.25/85 = 7.35% DoT and WS.

3% Haste using Turban/Swift/Haidate/Fuma (17%), receiving Haste spell and 1x March =

3 / (100 - 47)
3 / 53 = 5.67% DoT and WS.

Add in Hasso and a second march for an extra 18%,

3 / (100 - 65)
3 / 35 = 8.57% DoT and WS.

Basically Dusk will win if your Haste is really high or accuracy from Hachiryu is being wasted, else Hachiryu.