Whats better?

[Thunder]

Thank you very much!

[FailureMidgard]

12.5~ accuracy vs Attack+5 Haste+3%

Attack5 is very small, something like 1.1%~ DoT only.

12.5accuracy is 6.25% hitrate on average, using a 85% accuracy base,

6.25/85 = 7.35% DoT and WS.

3% Haste using Turban/Swift/Haidate/Fuma (17%), receiving Haste spell and 1x March =

3 / (100 - 47)
3 / 53 = 5.67% DoT and WS.

Add in Hasso and a second march for an extra 18%,

3 / (100 - 65)
3 / 35 = 8.57% DoT and WS.

Basically Dusk will win if your Haste is really high or accuracy from Hachiryu is being wasted, else Hachiryu.

Dusk will always win, because if your accuracy is that low, you should be using Pizza (or even Sushi).

[Yugl]

Askar head sucks, 4 str 4 dex will never beat 1% haste. Correction: it will beat it when your accuracy is so low that you better eat pizza or even sushi. I guess its ok as a swap piece for high evasive mobs. For ace's its different because turban beats it only near cap accuracy (7 acc is huge).

So 4 ACC is the difference between choosing 1% Haste and not choosing 1% haste? Just confirming here because it seems I could use Blitz Ring on DRG over ToAU ring. If someone else could confirm this Turban > Askar Helm remark, I'll consider fixing macros.

I've yet to see an askar DD be it sam drk drg or war, using askar head, that comes even close to my unmerited sam. I'll admit though that this kind of DD generally uses askar body and gloves as well. 2% haste is nothing people, its all about dex!

I think it's more about the overall gear choices than the choice of Askar > Turban. If it were a helm choice issue, then either SAM is broken (Serious point here) or 1% Haste has to make a serious difference (Since they don't even come close to you). It would also suggest that 4 ACC increases the difference even further. Again, it would be nice to see more people back up this claim.

[Wolfknight]

I've yet to see an askar DD be it sam drk drg or war, using askar head, that comes even close to my unmerited sam. I'll admit though that this kind of DD generally uses askar body and gloves as well. 2% haste is nothing people, its all about dex! The day I'll find one that beats me I'll believe you, and my sam is far from awsome. I can post the maths if you want:


- askar will give more hits than turban only under 67% acc ( 3 ac vs 1% haste, no way 3 acc will win).

- ok but askar makes you hit harder. 4 str=+1 dmg to your weapon. On my hagun sam, going from 79 to 80 dmg on typical MMJ with ~80 vit, its 1.2% melee dmg increase. DRG DRK WAR have higher dmg rating weapon so its less relative increase ( most likely less than 1%).


As haste I have 14% gear haste not counting head, and typically march ( 11%), haste spell (15%) and hasso (10%). Obviously, if you have less haste, askar will be less crappy , but still be inferior. Total 55% with turban, 54% with askar. And I'm assuming the guy using askar head is not stupid and uses dusk gloves.

well at 95% acc askar is nowhere close to turban, so you can imagin that it beats it only when your accuracy blows.

I agree with that, but not everyone ALWAYS has 50% haste if you do have 50% haste then yes, turban would be better, but can't always get hasso, second march, or etc, and when you don't get those the gap shifts in askars favor more unless you practically capped. Even at 85% acc and 45% haste[19% gear, haste[15%], march 11%] Askar is more or less even with turban, and 90% acc it's barely ahead though when you increase haste more then yes Turban is usaully better. But still I find saying turban ALWAYS and Askar never is stupid logic, If you're able get capped acc or over 50% Haste[with half way decent hit%] then yes turban is ussually better, but there plenty of times when you don't have that unless you're in some perfect ls that always two bards for you, I mean yes for meriting you'll probably have that but other events, not always the case.

[Raen Ryong]

Dusk will always win, because if your accuracy is that low, you should be using Pizza (or even Sushi).

I agree with you in the case of using a GKT since attack does so little to WS, but what if they are using a Polearm? In the example given, 85 + 6%~ accuracy would give them a respectable 91% accuracy.

Granted it would be difficult to get that accuracy without having Madrigals which could be dropped etc but supposing you were in a situation like that?

[Cream Soda]

Isn't Mkris/Joy better than Joy/Mkris for cor?

I always see Joy/Mkris, but if main hand swings first and lets say the mob has enough hp left to get killed by 2 swings of joy. Wouldn't swinging 2-3 times with Mkris and the 1-2 with joy to kill it net you more TP than wielding them the other way around?

[Shinryuu]

Yes.

Also the fSTR bonus on Askar, as well as its crit bonus from DEX, have to be multiplied by TP/WS ratio, as they do jack zero for WSing.

Askar fucking blows.

[Cream Soda]

Yes.

Was to me, right?

[Shinryuu]

Yep. You're right, very nitpickingly, which I enjoyed greatly (it's my style of thinking, I've said before fuma kyahan > fuma sune-ate for MNK because AGI = EVA = less counters). Anyway, you're not doing sword or dagger WSs so order doesn't matter besides what you already said. Mainhand swings first.

[Raen Ryong]

The above is actually a REALLY good point on joy/mkris ... never even thought of that.

[Shinryuu]

Yeah.

I'm going to be a horrible asshole and say that the point is moot on account of COR/NIN sucking, though. Then again /NIN could be done in Salvage or Dyna or so, and then the point is a bit more valid.

[FailureMidgard]

I agree with you in the case of using a GKT since attack does so little to WS, but what if they are using a Polearm? In the example given, 85 + 6%~ accuracy would give them a respectable 91% accuracy.

Granted it would be difficult to get that accuracy without having Madrigals which could be dropped etc but supposing you were in a situation like that?

Sub = 5str, 75attack
Pizza NQ = ~35-40acc, 50attack

I'm not exactly sure what available gear the guy has, but unless he's already dropped every bit of accuracy from his WS set, you can easily make up 25attk and 5str by not needing accuracy elsewhere.

If he wants to post his WS gear, then I can say for sure, but unless it's top of the line str/dex/attk, he's very likely going to get higher WSes, more WSes, and more DoT.

[Arthars]

I've yet to see an askar DD be it sam drk drg or war, using askar head, that comes even close to my unmerited sam.

come to ifrit ^^

im in team askar head

[Cream Soda]

Get me the account info for a good gear polearm sam and I'll give you a go.

[Raen Ryong]

come to ifrit ^^

im in team askar head

Hey I did not say that >:O

[Arthars]

XD just fooling around

because askar or ace or turban doesnt matter much to apoc

[Raen Ryong]

Haha no, I mean you quoted me instead of mdkuser we both have iThf (ftw)!

[Arthars]

oh fu both lol i quoted wrong!

[Gryffes]

seiryus vs CFG for WS on average geared ranger?

[arshesney]

I'm levelling WAR (59) what is a good hand piece for g.axe weaponskills?
Spiked finger gauntlets/siphai hands are non-existant on AH using gigas bracelets atm.