Whats better?

[mdkuser]

Mirke butchers all other THF bodies unless your Haste is very very high.

I did count the str and dex bonuses when i did this computation. Also rapparee beats homam when acc is above 89%. March + haste always assumed.

[Wulfgang]

LV 33 PLD currently

DEF or accuracy bonus (or other) food? Was thinking about Boiled Crab or something similar but the DEF gains seem to produce marginal results on VT+ mobs.

[Marcicus]

inb4 playstyle/etc makes a difference, but what has more potential for overall damage in merits/hnm: Bravura WAR/SAM or Amano SAM/WAR, both maxed out gear/merits wise? Personal bias aside, please.

[Tits]

KJ vs Kaiten>gekkogekkogekko>kaiten? Pure speculation I'd say the warrior?

[Wolfknight]

inb4 playstyle/etc makes a difference, but what has more potential for overall damage in merits/hnm: Bravura WAR/SAM or Amano SAM/WAR, both maxed out gear/merits wise? Personal bias aside, please.

Merit/Salvage/limbus/etc I see no way a warrior could keep up w/katien spam since it absolutely destroys those levels of mobs, I know parses I've seen have very high dmg avg w/katien and HNM I imagine it would be more even and depend on the exact HNM for which is better.

[Cream Soda]

Taking a second look at tomoe sam.

What I use now:
FFXIGEAR.com (91%, 399.3 acc w/ hasso up on 82 birds) Mith Kabob

The build I'm looking at changing to:
FFXIGEAR.com (91%, 400.3 acc w/ hasso up on 82 birds) Tonosama Rice ball (slightly more expensive than kabob)

So for TP, I lose 2 str 20 attack (from food and loss of usu legs)and 2% haste, but my dex gets put at 116 (1 from cap on Gcolibri), gain 1% DA

As for WS, I'd use all 3 enhance riceball pieces and blow the other set out of the water with 3% DA and 150 attack

[Shinryuu]

Don't sacrifice haste for lolcrits use a love halberd/torque or so

[Cream Soda]

Don't sacrifice haste for lolcrits use a love halberd/torque or so

well its 2% haste under my current build and the penta is what i'm rly looking to gain for attack from kabob vs 150 attack 3 da from rice balls


Edit: unless ur talking askar vs turban, in which case, I don't see myself getting a love torque anytime soon and I'd prefer 5hit tomoe to 7-8hit love halbred with shitty ws dmg

[Max™]

You don't have to spam Meta, it's great for tanking, bitchin if you're wanting to take a little less damage while riding hasso, but while it has pretty consistent damage, RR and KJ make the panties hit the floor harder in most cases.

They're pretty dead even actually.

Brav/Pole/_/Bomblet
Wala/Atorque/Brutal/Hollow
Ebody/Dusk +1/Mars/Rajas
Cuch/Vbelt/Haidate/Aurum

vs

Amano/Pole/_/Black
Wal/Ator/Brutal/Bushi
Usu/Dusk +1/Mars/Rajas
Cuch/Vbelt/Haidate/Usukane

War would have to pop Carbo for true 6 hit, or use Askar~Aurum~Maybe Acp body, would have more DA and Berserk (5 DA/5 Zerk assumed) time, Aggressor, Retaliation (HAX), Warrior's charge, mighty strikes'D WSes are pwnified. Meta + KJ is self light. Randomly boosts everyones hit rate with Eva down procs, Meta is a break WS with good damage. Bit more base Str/Dex. Last I checked -12% Dmg taken during Meta aftermath.

Sam would get innate 6 hit with some builds, and Kaiten 6 hit if not, +5 Str from Hasso, 2~3 Times as much TP from Meditate (with a reduced timer), better defensive abilities innately (eva/parrying/gear options worth using with significant +Eva), Sekka is a nice counter to Warrior's charge, Overwhelm is badass. Meikyo with Self Light spam is wtfhax. Gekko is powerful as shit for when Kaiten slacks off, Gekko vs Steel Cyclone... Sam comes out ahead, not as much when considering RR/KJ. Random attack down helps reduce some damage taken.

Interestingly:
D99 Dly488 = 4.92~ Dmg/Dly
D88 Dly437 = 4.96~ Dmg/Dly

It would come down to the difference between the players and little shit like subtle tweaks in the gearsets, macro setups, etc. Too close to say one is better than the other, though it's much easier to say they're pretty much the top of the heap at killing shit.


Alternative gearsets
Sam:Ace's/Haub+1 setup
Sam:/Drg max haste setup.
War:Aurum body for 6 hit.
War:Max haste setup.

Those last two for each job (max haste) have roughly the same acc interestingly, 401/404.

[Korremar]

What's an optimal setup for spamming Atonement when tanking? Beyond that, assuming you can't afford some of the higher end items, what are some acceptable alternatives?

[Max™]

Joytoy/Shield/Varies/Varies, Smart Grenade isn't bad, Tiphia has -Hp, Goblin Cracker
Turban/PCC~Fort~Coeurl*/Suppa/Ethereal~Assault~Fowling
Haub(+1)~Homam/Homam/Acc/Acc
Cuch~Cerb~Fora~Beak*/Vbelt~Swift/Homam/Homam

*Augmented with Accuracy (7~8 neck, 5~6 back + dex)

[FailureMidgard]

Taking a second look at tomoe sam.

What I use now:
FFXIGEAR.com (91%, 399.3 acc w/ hasso up on 82 birds) Mith Kabob

The build I'm looking at changing to:
FFXIGEAR.com (91%, 400.3 acc w/ hasso up on 82 birds) Tonosama Rice ball (slightly more expensive than kabob)

So for TP, I lose 2 str 20 attack (from food and loss of usu legs)and 2% haste, but my dex gets put at 116 (1 from cap on Gcolibri), gain 1% DA

As for WS, I'd use all 3 enhance riceball pieces and blow the other set out of the water with 3% DA and 150 attack

While I think going for a riceball WS build may work out, I don't think you're going about it the right way. The DEX tiers for crit are not worth that loss of haste in your TP set (in fact, I don't see why you don't use your normal TP build, and just use your riceball WS set).

You'd be trading 60 attack and 5 str while TPing and 5 STR, 11 acc on WS for

75 attack, 3 DA, 3 dex on WS.
Assuming you can make up the accuracy loss easily (I know I can, and my penta gear is still lacking), I think you'll end up positive.

[Miraun]

Askar head sucks, 4 str 4 dex will never beat 1% haste. Correction: it will beat it when your accuracy is so low that you better eat pizza or even sushi. I guess its ok as a swap piece for high evasive mobs. For ace's its different because turban beats it only near cap accuracy (7 acc is huge).

I've yet to see an askar DD be it sam drk drg or war, using askar head, that comes even close to my unmerited sam. I'll admit though that this kind of DD generally uses askar body and gloves as well. 2% haste is nothing people, its all about dex! The day I'll find one that beats me I'll believe you, and my sam is far from awsome. I can post the maths if you want:


- askar will give more hits than turban only under 67% acc ( 3 ac vs 1% haste, no way 3 acc will win).

- ok but askar makes you hit harder. 4 str=+1 dmg to your weapon. On my hagun sam, going from 79 to 80 dmg on typical MMJ with ~80 vit, its 1.2% melee dmg increase. DRG DRK WAR have higher dmg rating weapon so its less relative increase ( most likely less than 1%).

- taking the above into account, askar will do more dmg under 82% accuracy ( assuming 1/3 melee 2/3 ws): it's not an acceptable accuracy. The exact number will vary with different set ups/jobs/mobs, so I didn't show any maths, and don't take this exact 82% for granted. All you need to know is that when askar beats turban , your accuracy blows, unlike turban vs. ace's.


- +4 dex doesn't give you any decent critical hit rates generally, unless you fight real weak mobs ( colibris) but then turban is still better. Crit builds dont work in merit pt by the way, except on the weaker mobs ( colibris, puks, MMJ whm...) on which you cap accuracy NP.

- If you dont believe what I wrote above, look at what happens at capped accuracy ( puks, colibris, whm MMJ etc..). I can do the whole maths here if you want to read it.

As haste I have 14% gear haste not counting head, and typically march ( 11%), haste spell (15%) and hasso (10%). Obviously, if you have less haste, askar will be less crappy , but still be inferior. Total 55% with turban, 54% with askar. And I'm assuming the guy using askar head is not stupid and uses dusk gloves.

Maths:

Spoiler: show

Say you do N melee hits in a given time, without any haste.

With turban you'll do

N1= N*0.95/(1-0.55) melee hits, and
W1=N1/5 weapon skills.

With an average melee dmg M and weapon skill average W. If you do 1/3 melee and 2/3 ws dmg then W=10*M ok...

Im ignoring meditate because it will be the same dmg on both parts of the equation...

With askar: say the 4 str and 4 dex increase your average melee dmg by x%. I'll put x in a fraction form... x=1.012 if you improve by 1.2% etc..

You do N2 hits and W2 weapons skills.

N2= N*0.95/(1-0.54) melee hits for M*x average dmg.
W2=N2/5 ws for W avg dmg.

The damage you do with turban is

DMG1=N1*M+W1*W

The damage you do with askar is

DMG2=N2*M*x+W2*W.

I'll let you solve this equation... I find

DMG2>DMG1 is equivalent to (x+2)/0.46>3/0.45 so x> 1.06666

Yes askar needs to improve your melee dmg by 6.6% in order to beat turban. Considering 4 str improves it by only 1% ish ( depending on mob's vit and your str), the dex will never make up for the remainder lol. It'd be generous if it improves it by 0.5%.

well at 95% acc askar is nowhere close to turban, so you can imagin that it beats it only when your accuracy blows.

So, I took another approach to Askar versus Turban assessment... very quick, simple math...

The difference in delay with Thalassocrat is 5 delay... 409 versus 404 with my current haste gear.

To take into account accuracy, I've been using:

Delay / ACC% = Modified Delay. Modified delay is the measurement of the aggregate average amount of delay to yield TP

The -Dex results in a -1.5% ACC...

408/.95 = 429.47
403/.935 = 431

Higher modified delay = less TP gain

[Wolfknight]

Joytoy/Shield/Varies/Varies, Smart Grenade isn't bad, Tiphia has -Hp, Goblin Cracker
Turban/PCC~Fort~Coeurl*/Suppa/Ethereal~Assault~Fowling
Haub(+1)~Homam/Homam/Acc/Acc
Cuch~Cerb~Fora~Beak*/Vbelt~Swift/Homam/Homam

*Augmented with Accuracy (7~8 neck, 5~6 back + dex)

ethereal/assault/fowling over brutal really, assuming no suppa is brutal+ethereal ideal or something else and isn't ares vs haub debatable since hitting for 0 is issue?

[Callisto]

Amemet +1 vs. Cuchu for Steel Cyclone?

[noodles355]

For a Blau/Sirocco THF:
Homam Cosciales + Sniper's Ring (3 Haste 8Acc)

vs

Enkidu's Subligar + Ecphoria Ring (10Tp/hit + 6Acc 2fStr)

This is based on the fact that your other STP gear will be Rajas/Brutal and your DW gear will be ACP body and suppa
As far as STP goes, Skadi legs (The best choice);s STP made me wonder. With Blau/Sirocco (A popular combo), for 10TP/round you need rajas/skadi or rajas/enkidu/ecphoria/brutal/suppa (replace ecphorira with snipers/toredors and your neck slot with chiv if you want).

Any way, for those without Skadi legs (the best leg pieces), I was curious what was best; (Both sets will use Turban/ACP Acc+DW body/Homam hands+feet/love torque/brutal/suppa/rajas/cuch mantle/swift belt/bomblet) homam legs and snipers ring (3 haste and 8acc) or 4Str 4Dex 4Acc 6STP (2 fStr, 6Acc, and over 10TP/hit (which for blau/sirocco combo needs either skadi ro a combo lik I'm considering).


Maths pls.

ty

[Cream Soda]

While I think going for a riceball WS build may work out, I don't think you're going about it the right way. The DEX tiers for crit are not worth that loss of haste in your TP set (in fact, I don't see why you don't use your normal TP build, and just use your riceball WS set).

You'd be trading 60 attack and 5 str while TPing and 5 STR, 11 acc on WS for

75 attack, 3 DA, 3 dex on WS.
Assuming you can make up the accuracy loss easily (I know I can, and my penta gear is still lacking), I think you'll end up positive.

Hmm for TP build, if I swap to turban, I only lose 1 haste (rather than using askar) than full usu. I think that and at least a little attack would be better than no attack at all from ball and only getting it for WS. As for WS, I think i'd have to swap my current set from forager to cuchu, but w/ hasso and capped PA merits I can still get 90 or higher ws acc depending on the lv of the bird

[Raen Ryong]

Maths pls.

Blau: 178 Delay
Sirocco: 150 Delay

Total: 328

328 * 0.77 = 252.56
/2 = 126.28 per hand

Base TP/hit = 4.5(5)

With Rajas/Brutal = 4.7 = 22 hits to 100% TP
With Rajas/Brutal/Ecphoria/Enkidu = 5.0 = 20 hits to 100% TP

For simplicity's sake, ignoring weaponskill TP entirely (since it could be 3 different WS TP return types), so this figure will be lower than it should be,

2 hits speed up = 2 / 22 = 9.09% WS frequency.

Homam Build
3% haste at 40%~ haste = 3 / (100 - 40) = 5% DoT/WS
2acc difference at 80%~ accuracy = 1 / 80 = 1.25% DoT/WS

Enkidu's Build
1fSTR (4str = 1fSTR, not 2) = 1 / ~38 for Blau = 2.6% DoT, roughly 3% for SK

So you're basically looking at 9% WS + ~2.8% DoT (averaged) vs ~6.25% DoT and WS (not exactly this but approximately). Normally since THF damage is derived largely from DoT, the Homam build will win but I'm not bringing WS TP into this so it's quite incomplete.

[antihero]

tomoe(hagun)/pole grip/black tathlum
aces/ancient torque/brutal/fowling
usu haramaki/dusk+1/toreador/toreador
cuch/vbelt/byakkos/usu sune-ate

vs

tomoe(hagun)/pole grip/black tathlum
aces/ancient torque/brutal/fowling
haub+1/dusk+1/toreador/rajas
cuch/vbelt/byakkos/usu sune-ate

[Shinryuu]

Tomoe, Haramaki, Rajas, Brutal, Sune-Ate, 5-hit