Whats better?

[Tan]

for raging rush:

aurum gauntlets vs hecatomb mittens?

also, what do you guys think is better overall - dex or str build for raging rush (i.e. thunder vs flame ring)

Hecta, Aurum Gauntlets really aren't that spectacular with that -ACC. Basically a scaled down Alky w/ some ATT+. I think a DEX build that reaches a crit tier (if you are doing birds) w/o sacrificing substantial STR is probably the way to go. Hecta gear, Hauby+1 (or Ebody), and anything w/ both STR+ and DEX+ would be the best way to stack your gear.

[Aragon of Odin]

I'll probably get shot for saying this but I prefer Alky over Heca hands.

When people started to realize the Sea gorgets actually work on all hits for ws's I made 2 switches in my WS macro. I started using my Sea gorget and got my Heca hands made and noticed an instant drop in my ws avg. I then switched backed to Alky's and continued to use my Sea gorget and noticed a slightly higher then before WS avg, so I stayed with Alky but do intend to try Heca again altho I'm just a big fan of stacking STR.

In my eyes STR is guaranteed to add to ws dmg because it's a modifier where as Dex only gives you the slight chance to crit, but thats just me.

[Meat]

onyx cuisses, hecatomb subligar or Ares's Flanchard for drk ws

[Jedimasta]

onyx cuisses, hecatomb subligar or Ares's Flanchard for drk ws

I'm personally no DRK but I've read a lot that Ares is probably the best piece for the slot. You obviously lose the attack stacks from Onyx/Heca but it also gives you that extra kick if DA procs.

[gandorf]

Should I keep using http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14260&sid=1 on my 72mnk or switch to http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15618&sid=1. Not much gil so no prince slopes and it will be awhile before I get shura pants or byakko pants.

[SamanosukeShiva]

Blade jin

Peacock Charm Vs Breeze gorget

[Tricen]

If what I have been told is right, Gorget is PCC+1 for ele WS's. So I would assume Gorget, but it's such a debate apparently. When they were first released, it was "proven" that gorget only affected the first hit, but now (apparently) tests show they it's about 10cc for the whole WS + added dmg. If someone else has more info please explain <_<

[SamanosukeShiva]

yes prz

[Khrno]

onyx cuisses, hecatomb subligar or Ares's Flanchard for drk ws

Ares > Onyx > Heca

I have the last 2, selling my Onyx whenever the 35 drops.

[PeaceNLove]

I'll probably get shot for saying this but I prefer Alky over Heca hands.

When people started to realize the Sea gorgets actually work on all hits for ws's I made 2 switches in my WS macro. I started using my Sea gorget and got my Heca hands made and noticed an instant drop in my ws avg. I then switched backed to Alky's and continued to use my Sea gorget and noticed a slightly higher then before WS avg, so I stayed with Alky but do intend to try Heca again altho I'm just a big fan of stacking STR.

In my eyes STR is guaranteed to add to ws dmg because it's a modifier where as Dex only gives you the slight chance to crit, but thats just me.

I heartily agree with this for Rampage, and it's gotten me great results. About +61 STR and minimal DEX in my WS set, foregoing norms such as Haidate and Heca hands for AFv2 legs and Alky's, gets me consistent 880-940 average Rampages with 2 Minuet at Mamool north camp.

I follow the same philosophy when using GA, but I do use Heca hands over Alkys just because -DEX hurts that much more, and the fact that I'm no longer capped on acc due to eating meat. However, I also WS in Fort. Torque; perhaps I'd get better results using your gorget/Alky's combo.

[Amele]

If what I have been told is right, Gorget is PCC+1 for ele WS's. So I would assume Gorget, but it's such a debate apparently. When they were first released, it was "proven" that gorget only affected the first hit, but now (apparently) tests show they it's about 10cc for the whole WS + added dmg. If someone else has more info please explain <_<

there's so much disinformation going around it's silly.

the early tests (I'll do some bg archive digging later if I have the time; in the meantime here is my summary from memory..) for accuracy only demonstrated that for single hit weaponskills, the gorget was definitely better than PCC. - I seem to remember 20 acc being thrown around alot but the 0.5% hit rate = 1 acc relationship wasn't conventional wisdom at the time of alot of the early tests so it's hard to really say if that number is accurate.

for multiple hit weaponskills (I believe asuran was the primary ws tested since it has the most hits) there were two conflicting results from two very well designed tests: one that showed it was 'better' than PCC, and one that showed it was 'worse' than PCC (in single quotes because again, accuracy only comparison.) both of which were within the margin of error for the test conditions (which is to say, it could go either way) the MoE's were pretty good considering we can't exactly set up a bot to do this 1000 times against a known stat target dummy with infinite hp (would that we could!) but were still several percentage points - and even 1% makes a pretty big difference to overall dps numbers, as you can see from how much people debate stuff like haste and double attack.


the conclusion that saner minds came up with was that it was unlikely that a gorget would ever actually be meaningfully worse than a PCC - given that it performed close enough that BG's best math-monks couldn't get beyond the margin of error - but that if you already had a PCC it might not be worth the time and trouble to get a gorget for a high multihit ws like, say, asuran fists, since again; BG's best math-monks couldn't get beyond the margin of error.


it is entirely possible that gorget bonuses only apply on the first hit - but that the bonus to accuracy on the first hit is so high that it balances out the lack of accuracy bonus on subsequent hits. It is also possible that there is a diminishing returns effect on each subsequent hit (not that we'd ever really be able to determine this) - really, it needs to be tested again and more thoroughly.

In the meantime: don't throw your gorget away if you got it for asuran or rampage etc. but don't make fun of the guy who's using PCC for asuran or rampage either - either one of you could be right.

edit: bingo, found original thread here

it's an omnibus of 8 pages and 5 months in post length but it'll be in there somewhere. I'll try to find the actual posts and link them in as well.

edit: post 1, test of f.torque vs. soil gorget - nagamaki tester.
here

eidt: post 2, confirmation that other tests were lost in crash ~june 2007. here nagamaki does indicate that he had additional tests that bear up the conclusions of the initial test. I believe that the counter test from the original thread was lost.. not sure if I'll be able to find it.

edit: post 3, showing gorget and pcc matching in head to head and also demonstrating effect of margin of error: here.

looking for post by RK that indicates that gorgets may have a hidden +0.1pdif bonus in addition to the 0.1 fTP bonus.

[Callisto]

PLD/NIN meripo Sword/Sword or Sword/Shield combo for 74-75? I still got a bit to go(just about 68 atm) but I'm just curious what I should aim to round up aside from what I have already(Macuahuitl +1, Joyeuse, Company).

[Phla]

PLD/NIN meripo Sword/Sword or Sword/Shield combo for 74-75? I still got a bit to go(just about 68 atm) but I'm just curious what I should aim to round up aside from what I have already(Macuahuitl +1, Joyeuse, Company).

Company main Joyeuse sub

but i saw pld using Joy / Justice did pretty decent in pts probably better then comp/joy :S

[Max™]

*stuff about the original gorget tests*

It has since been tested by a Nin/Thf with no DA gear using underskilled Fast Blade so as to not cap accuracy natively.

The 5% accuracy boost was there on the 2nd and 3rd hits using the Gorget.

I did a similar test, but the results were tainted by DA, though interestingly, I did get a 5% increase in WS hits landed using gorget vs without, over something like 400 WSes against a Fortification (a dummy with infinite HP basically) which was later correlated by the nin/thf testing.

It isn't really in question anymore, there was the question brought up about the ftp bonus being on all hits, but that has been disproved, so to sum it all up.

Gorget is a PCC with a unique damage boost on the first hit, making it the best option aside from MAYBE an Ancient Torque which is used to cap out crit tiers.

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Regarding Str vs Dex for Crit TP wses, I've found the best results come from going 1:1 on Str/Dex til you reach the best crit tier you can get with your gear/for said target, and then pumping Str.

Most have a fairly low Str mod, and piling on only Str over Dex is trying to make up for a worse crit rate by pushing the spikes higher, which doesn't personally appeal to me.

[Amele]

do you have the link for the fast blade test? I believe you (esp. since the earlier tests were pretty flawed) but I'd still like to read the thread.

I knew about the fTP adjustment being first hit only (since fTP itself only applies on the first hit, to the joy of dw wars everywhere).

do you know if anyone ever did a follow up to RK's posts about pdif modifiers?

[Max™]

Caution: Subligar related content.

Took a while to find it, but there ya go.

[Ferien]

PLD/NIN meripo Sword/Sword or Sword/Shield combo for 74-75? I still got a bit to go(just about 68 atm) but I'm just curious what I should aim to round up aside from what I have already(Macuahuitl +1, Joyeuse, Company).

Joy/Justice is your best bet, with Company/Joy right behind.

[Aragon of Odin]

Can't look up stats right now but would Organics not be a good choice over Company? Or would it only be for more solo shit for fun.

[Ferien]

Oh, hi2u new Sword. Yea, it probably would replace comp.

[ringthree]

Blade jin

Peacock Charm Vs Breeze gorget

I prefer Breeze, but it is so dependent on other things that its almost impossible to come up with a definitive answer. Do you use sushi? What is your other gear? etc.

Edit: Or, you can read what Amele wrote because the same information can also be applied there.