Whats better?

[Gunslinger]

From what I understand the voke isn't nearly as strong, but it should still be workable depending on your setup (I think a thf would help, not to mention flash). In either case, it's probably doable and a bit of fun . You're quickly getting to the levels where no matter how much hate you generate from a JA you're going to lose it half way through the battle due to damage. Maybe work on a nice pld/nin DD build too?

Edit: I see I've echoed what has been said a few posts above... oh well!

[Tan]

If you are exping on Imps, /DNC and /WAR are both about the same in terms of usefulness with /WAR probably being better since you can full time Defender for a little bit more DEF+. Honestly I would probably go with something like /NIN simply because shadows are going to reduce more damage and really if you have a decent pt on Imps you aren't doing much besides getting initial hate and helping with the curing.

@ Calli: And this is coming from your resident PLD/DNC. Fucking ghrahs got me 3 times today...

[Callisto]

You really need to level RDM or something, lol. @ Gunslinger, I have a decent PLD DD build at the moment, but it's a lot of 72-75 for the good stuff aside from what I can already use now. 70-72 I don't feel like there's a lot to gain from /NIN unless the damage output from Company/Joy dual wielded is so much greater than single wielding Joy with Berserk, or the extra utility of /DNC.

To be honest the main reason I was looking at /DNC was that more and more often I'm getting invites with no form of Refresh, and I have Joyeuse, full sword merits, and a pretty heavy accuracy set, I figure I can build enough TP to make solid use of the /DNC abilities if nothing else.

[ringthree]

Also PLD/DNC would make a party without a refresh more viable wouldn't it?

[Amele]

Also PLD/DNC would make a party without a refresh more viable wouldn't it?

refresh isn't really what redmage or bard are for at those levels (it's dispel and other buffs like haste)

that said, pld/anything will help a whm keep up without refresh.

[Crizto]

HP+ or Enmity+ for Spirit's Within for PLD?

[Callisto]

HP+ or Enmity+ for Spirit's Within for PLD?

Depends on the slot, the 2 pieces your choosing between, and your HP not including that slot.

[SilverBreeze]

Hecatomb Legs or Ares Legs for Dragoon WS :3

[ubermonkey]

Hauby (NQ) or AF+1 body for nin TP assuming sushi.

Generally I've been using hauby when I can't use sushi (birds when I'm being cheap frex) and nin body when I can. I'm coming around to the idea of using hauby full time though.

[Isiolia]

If your ACC is good enough with AF+1, I'd use that. That's what I do. Haub+1 on birds.

[Gunslinger]

Hecatomb Legs or Ares Legs for Dragoon WS :3

That's actually a pretty tough call.

For Penta:
I imagine Hecatomb would do better a majority of the time, but Ares would probably be better in zergs (double attack songs, etc).

For Wheeling:
I would personally always use Ares. The double attack mod + Str would make it ideal imo.

In an ideal world, get both (/use both)!

[Max™]

Pld/Dnc, Joyeuse, Aspir Samba go.

Build up two steps and Animated Flourish is about as powerful as regular voke (I know, because step > step > voke > animated is a ridiculous amount of hate, and regular animated is just about .5 voke) plus it gives you the options of uninterruptible INSTANT TP based cures, the ability to swap between the two depending on TP and MP needs, erase, Acc Bonus, Eva Bonus, Subtle Blow, Gravity, Curaga.

Pld/Dnc is awesome in farming/campaign/etc, imagine it could be quite viable in exp.

Aspir Samba may only be 2~5 mp per hit with a joytoy, but that's going to equal or beat refresh in many situations, Shield Mastery giving extra Tp is just gravy at this point.

[Callisto]

Yeah my main concern to an extent is if I'd basically be giving up WS'...as /WAR in a DD build I actually put up some pretty solid #'s, not DD quality, but big enough to contribute a large portion to hate. As COR/DNC I can still WS and have TP to do the DNC functions with Joyeuse, but that's almost always with SAM roll as well.

At any rate I'll try it at 70, if it sucks balls I'll let you know, lol.

[Max™]

You can WS if you have enough MP to cover healing fine.

You can make use of the /Dnc side to get MP back by curing/step/flourish for hate, aspir samba for direct MP back, so on so forth.

It's a very easy sub to get used too, Bst/Dnc, Pld/Dnc, Sam/Dnc... doesn't hurt that you get non-magic aggro sneak/invis too.

[Atlasion]

Shadow Mantle or Boxer's Mantle for when shadows are down and casting Ichi on PLD?

I've heard Shadow Mantle procs about 10% of the time, so that vs 10 Shield Skill basically.

[Nitrous24]

I prefer shadow mantle. But for some reason either it or my shield procs when shadows are down and i'm casting ichi.

[Amele]

Shadow Mantle or Boxer's Mantle for when shadows are down and casting Ichi on PLD?

I've heard Shadow Mantle procs about 10% of the time, so that vs 10 Shield Skill basically.

would probably depend on how much shield skill and what you're fighting. shadow is static vs. everything.

[Chupunpupun]

would probably depend on how much shield skill and what you're fighting. shadow is static vs. everything.

Explain this further because I thought block rate was dependent on the shield size and shield skill. And are there any test done to see what skill lvl is needed to cap block rate with koenig shield? If there is and you're able to reach that lvl without boxer then shadow mantle would be more useful when casting ichi.

[Amele]

Explain this further because I thought block rate was dependent on the shield size and shield skill. And are there any test done to see what skill lvl is needed to cap block rate with koenig shield? If there is and you're able to reach that lvl without boxer then shadow mantle would be more useful when casting ichi.

everything you just said is pretty much what I meant. at a certain point, additional shield skill won't be as many additional blocks as whatever the % proc rate is on shadow mantle.

I was under the impression that block rate varies based on what you're fighting (i.e. you block less versus harder mobs) but this may not be the case. I am not a paladin so I don't pay close attention.

[Callisto]

It'd be nice if you could parse shield procs, because honestly from eyeballing it I can't tell a damn thing. As a 68 PLD using IR Shield with nearly capped(2 away) skill and +13 from gear(+20 during Cure 3/4), on XP mobs honestly my shield rate seems very lackluster, yet as a RDM with just capped skill on T-VT mobs using Genbu's it seems noticeably higher. I really couldn't tell the difference from taking off 10 shield on PLD as well, but again not like eyeballing is scientific.

Personally I'd probably go with shadow mantle, as that seems more likely to proc the same % regardless of mob level.