Whats better?

[Valisk]

2 evasion isn't going to break you. Just use Ritter.

Evasion Skill and Evasion are calculated differently. But yea, if it's an inventory thing, just dump the Evasion Torque. If you can spare the room, keep it.

[Indalecia]

Ugh, forgot about that.

But yeah, still say Ritters.

[Dawin]

PTed with my IRL Monk/nin friend the other day.

He's full usu, black belt, destroyers, foragers mantle, etc. The one "gimp" piece of gear is chiv chain because he's had bad luck with torque drops. 5/5 str merits, 8/8 h2h, and whatever the other good monk merits are.

The choice that I found interesting was he was TPing in Ulthalam's Ring + Iota Ring (3 dex 3 vit 3 agi 3 accuracy). He has a Rajas ring, but he argued the accuracy from Iota was better.

This was in a bard + cor merit PT in north camp @ mamool ja staging point. So he had madrigal + march + chaos roll (4th roll was cor's). He used both attack food and sushi, but I think that was just for the sake of testing how his accuracy compared to others on the parse.

[Amele]

PTed with my IRL Monk/nin friend the other day.

He's full usu, black belt, destroyers, foragers mantle, etc. The one "gimp" piece of gear is chiv chain because he's had bad luck with torque drops. 5/5 str merits, 8/8 h2h, and whatever the other good monk merits are.

The choice that I found interesting was he was TPing in Ulthalam's Ring + Iota Ring (3 dex 3 vit 3 agi 3 accuracy). He has a Rajas ring, but he argued the accuracy from Iota was better.

This was in a bard + cor merit PT in north camp @ mamool ja staging point. So he had madrigal + march + chaos roll (4th roll was cor's). He used both attack food and sushi, but I think that was just for the sake of testing how his accuracy compared to others on the parse.

he's right for monk (4-5acc is always better than 2-3 acc). but I'm a little surprised, since the extra 5 store TP (assuming total of 19-20%) should be saving about one more swing (19~ vs. 20~; monk round counts to 100 are complex due to the variety of swing sources a monk has each round) which should on average save him about one attack round.

I'm not a monk but I remember going over alot of this with a monk friend of mine who also had full usukane, and we decided after some number crunching and theory and a couple parses that rajas was the right call over 6 acc 3 att, so I'd be surprised if 3dex+3acc was better.

[Chupunpupun]

Usu feet + rajas cuts 2 swings off which makes it a good combination for someone with full usu and he was getting madrigal with 8/8 h2h. I'm pretty sure his acc is capped except on nin and thf mobs. What I don't understand is why he would use amps to buy Iota ring when he can just use 200k to buy a snipers.

[Amele]

Usu feet + rajas cuts 2 swings off which makes it a good combination for someone with full usu and he was getting madrigal with 8/8 h2h. I'm pretty sure his acc is capped except on nin and thf mobs. What I don't understand is why he would use amps to buy Iota ring when he can just use 200k to buy a snipers.

usu body is another +6 so that's technically already covering the feet+rajas standard you see most usu based monks using.

but the +5 beyond that base 13-15 is another swing more so it's still worth considering.

[Cream Soda]

If your DEX is an odd number, Rajas should outperform ToAU ring. (Odd dex makes rajas 3 acc). So what it comes down to is 4 attack, 1 acc vs the stp, 2-3 attack (depending on your initial str) and Fstr increase (provided you're not already capped).

"He used both attack food and sushi, but I think that was just for the sake of testing how his accuracy compared to others on the parse."
If you're at the point where you have to use sushi with Full Usu, the mix and match will top it (togi byakko's bkote ect). The power of usu is being able to use meat where you'd otherwise have to eat sushi.

[Amele]

If your DEX is an odd number, Rajas should outperform ToAU ring. (Odd dex makes rajas 3 acc). So what it comes down to is 4 attack, 1 acc vs the stp, 2-3 attack (depending on your initial str) and Fstr increase (provided you're not already capped).

"He used both attack food and sushi, but I think that was just for the sake of testing how his accuracy compared to others on the parse."
If you're at the point where you have to use sushi with Full Usu, the mix and match will top it (togi byakko's bkote ect). The power of usu is being able to use meat where you'd otherwise have to eat sushi.

did you forget that the einherjar ring has 3dex in addition to 3 acc?

edit: although I suppose you mean using rajas over uthalam's. paired with iota

[Cream Soda]

Yea, I was talking about Ulthalam's. As for Iota, I think its a waste of ampules. I'd just get a sniper's or woodsman instead of that.

[Amele]

Yea, I was talking about Ulthalam's. As for Iota, I think its a waste of ampules. I'd just get a sniper's or woodsman instead of that.

if your dex is odd, iota is strictly better than an nq sniper or woodsman

[Cream Soda]

I wouldn't call a couple points of dex "strictly better". Even with an odd value (which would be dependent upon your other gear), you still get 5 out of it, the same as sniper or woodsman. May be nice for a 2hander though.

[SephYuyX]

Whats the best (and closest 2~3, cuse I doubt ill be able to get the best) GS for WAR?

Is Ferrara any good? High DPS, but low DMG. Looks like Subduer is pretty good too.. but I have no intention of doing 500pts for it D;

[Havok]

Algol, Subduer, and Perdu Sword are the only ones I'd ever consider. Buyable ones are all pretty bad..

[Amele]

I wouldn't call a couple points of dex "strictly better". Even with an odd value (which would be dependent upon your other gear), you still get 5 out of it, the same as sniper or woodsman. May be nice for a 2hander though.

5 accuracy (net) and 3 dex is superior in all situations to 5 accuracy (net) and -5 evasion, or 5 accuracy (net) and -10 defense.

so unless you're trying to argue that there's times when it's good to have -darkness; for melee in the stated situation, the statement is true.

there's nothing 'the same' about it, since +dex has a positive benefit besides just accuracy that accuracy doesn't.


*recognizing I'm ignoring racc because the question is about melee specifically.

[Cream Soda]

Strictly better would be an upgrade that's worth the cost. Having 3 dex to melee in isn't worth the work put into it to be slightly better (even then only when your dex is odd) than cheap as dirt standard rings. I'm not saying its not better (again when your dex is odd so even then, situationally), I'm saying its not enough of an improvement to warrant getting one, imo, putting all those ampules into a piece that should eventually be replaced anyways (sniper+1, Toreador's, and Divisor come into mind here). You can sell Sniper or Woodsman back, but you can't have your ampules refunded.

"*recognizing I'm ignoring racc because the question is about melee specifically."
Anyone who uses those rings for racc purposes should be shot. There's 5k nq rings that perform better than those for that purpose.

[FailureMidgard]

Strictly better would be an upgrade that's worth the cost. Having 3 dex to melee in isn't worth the work put into it to be slightly better (even then only when your dex is odd) than cheap as dirt standard rings. I'm not saying its not better (again when your dex is odd so even then, situationally), I'm saying its not enough of an improvement to warrant getting one, imo, putting all those ampules into a piece that should eventually be replaced anyways (sniper+1, Toreador's, and Divisor come into mind here). You can sell Sniper or Woodsman back, but you can't have your ampules refunded.

"*recognizing I'm ignoring racc because the question is about melee specifically."
Anyone who uses those rings for racc purposes should be shot. There's 5k nq rings that perform better than those for that purpose.

First off, I think Amele has the correct definition of strictly better than (from a math PoV). x+1 is strictly greater than x. 2x, while it scales faster, is -not- strictly greater than x.

Past that, I don't even agree with you on Ampoules. Before Einherjar changes, sure, but even a bad group can get ampoules insanely fast now. 5 weeks of time in Einherjar is virtually nothing (Esp since it is so short to do). Unless you are after the eyepatch, you should have most ampoules items you could ever possibly use in a relatively short amount of time.

Also, 3million gil for 2 accuracy is a pretty hefty price for a lot of people.

[Cream Soda]

Not everyone has them but if you're a melee main, they should be on your list, even if they're last. I don't think its worth 5 weeks for something that should be replaced for a POSSIBLE 5 acc (depending on your build, it could be 4) so even then only situationally better than sniper/woodsman

[Amele]

Not everyone has them but if you're a melee main, they should be on your list, even if they're last. I don't think its worth 5 weeks for something that should be replaced for a POSSIBLE 5 acc (depending on your build, it could be 4) so even then only situationally better than sniper/woodsman

with that logic I hope you don't bother with dynamis anymore lol

look at it this way: if you're doing einherjar -anyway- (for other reasons) you will eventually have an excess of ampoules. that excess of ampoules can then be applied to things like say, the Iota ring.

[Cream Soda]

If I'm doing Einherjar, those ampules will be going towards Nyzul relic. I wouldn't care to take a month break (or however long it takes to get that many ampules) for an Iota ring. I'm not saying not to get it. I'm just saying that I personally don't think its worth it, but the main dispute was you saying that its strictly better, but that's only true when your dex is odd, which is situational

[FailureMidgard]

Not everyone has them but if you're a melee main, they should be on your list, even if they're last. I don't think its worth 5 weeks for something that should be replaced for a POSSIBLE 5 acc (depending on your build, it could be 4) so even then only situationally better than sniper/woodsman

What else are you planning to buy with your ampoules...my jobs are pretty diverse (that was my goal when I lvled them) and I'm running out of things to buy. I have no plans to go for the Nyzul relics as they interfere with salvage way too much. In any case, Iota ring also is even better for non-MNK. I say if MNK is your main/only melee, I wouldn't bother. But my 2 melee being Sam and Nin...granted Sam gets more acc from it than a mnk does, but dex is also a Penta-mod (for what it's worth), and it seems dropping ~1 acc for the dex mod isn't an awful idea there (I generally have madrigal when I'm using polearm). For ninja, dex will help with the crit tier for Jin as well as being a WS modifier, and 3 agi for soloing/tanking things you are swinging at isn't bad at all (1.5 eva 1.5 parry?). Seems more useful than a wivre ring to me...at the very least a sidegrade in that situation that also frees up an inventory slot.

I dunno, it does depend on jobs and such a bit, but I think Iota ring is a solid item for many people, and I think earning ampoules now is a huge joke.