Whats better?

[el_tio]

One thing tho, altho don't have a Ridill myself I often read that a lot of Ridill users don't use Brutal Earring and use Assault ot Howling instead, something to do with stacking DA lowers your Ridill's chance of TA happening. Could be wrond but I'm sure I've read it a few times here.

Brutal doesn't hurt the overall # of attacks with Ridill (since it changes more singles to doubles than it does triples to doubles) but it doesn't do much to help it either. It still has its huge effect on mainhand tho. But since so much damage comes from Ridill it's probably a better course to use something like assault/fowling/hollow.

[solsovly]

Good point, maybe thats why blitz ring used to be like 5-10k and is now 200k, any poster here who can do the maths?

Blitz Ring spiked up after the DRK 2hr math and pre haste nerf. Atleast on my server.

[Trime]

With regards to brutal and ridill. Ridill isn't 33/33/33 for the 1-3 hits I thought?

[Amele]

Good point, maybe thats why blitz ring used to be like 5-10k and is now 200k, any poster here who can do the maths?

yeah I'll come save you from yourself.

for 1% haste to be better than 5acc one of two things needs to be true:

1) you need to be above 94% hit rate across the board
2) you need to be getting more than 63% haste excluding the 1% haste in question and be around 92.5% hit rate

if you are slightly lower (say, 90% hit rate) you need 65% haste excluding that 1% haste, and if you are significantly lower (say, 80% hit rate) you need 68% haste.

a typical warrior will probably have around 26% haste from spells/songs in merit, 10% from hasso (for 36%) and ~<20% in gear (56% ttl). I'm willing to bet that you're below the 63% minimum threshold assuming you actually get benefit from all 5 accuracy.


for the 1haste vs. 7 accuracy question: don't be retarded. it was for getting that last .4% on a full 25% haste zerg set pre-global attack speed cap nerf. they just haven't gone down yet because it's still useful for reaching the global attack speed cap in some setups. (the global cap being 80%) and might save a merit in desperate blows. wearing one in normal situations over even just 5 acc (see work above) is probably a bad idea.

edit: and ridill is 30 50 20 (there's been extensive tests done. some are archived on the discussion page at otherwiki; others are in the search forums here. searain of garuda did alot of testing; so did maxx if I recall correctly.) brutal was also tested: it's either blank (no net change in average hits) or slightly negative; based on MOE in the tests; it is definitely not going to improve your hits/rnd.

[Fwahm]

If Ridill is 30 50 20, Brutal will improve your offhand damage, just based on easy math.

[el_tio]

It's so negligible tho that you can call it practically no effect. You gain around 1% more swings with 19% double attack on Ridill.

4 DA merits > 4 DA + Brutal = .26% more swings with Ridill gained from Brutal. Yeah I realize most dedicated Ridill wars have 5/5 bergressor but I think you get the picture.

[Amele]

If Ridill is 30 50 20, Brutal will improve your offhand damage, just based on easy math.

go parse it. The parses bear out that it disproportionally takes the DA triggers from what would be double or Triple attacks. whether this is intended behavior or an side effect of how they generate random numbers I won't speculate.

so for instance: instead of 10% double attack making it 27 55 18 it makes it closer to 30 53 17, etc.

[SamanosukeShiva]

TP gear

mix-match
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/...a3034948_b.jpg

VS

full usu
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3084/...53caf9c5_b.jpg

[Amele]

TP gear

mix-match
[img/]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2891525122_caa3034948_b.jpg[/img]

VS

full usu
[img/]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3084/2891525056_c453caf9c5_b.jpg[/img]

I used to have the numbers; I'll run it again quick.

basically you give up about 1% haste for a fuck ton of other stats (including alot of accuracy) if you're already capped on accuracy it probably isn't worth it, otherwise it will be.

look here for a link to two sets that match your setup on ffxiah in a few minutes to summarize

edit: mixed set
full usu

net change from mixed to full usu: parenthetical is including str and dex mod to acc and attack

DEF -30
HP -20
Attack -7(-3)
Haste -1%
STR +6
DEX -8
AGI +8
Accuracy +10(+4)
Evasion +56
Store TP +6
[Element: Thunder] -50
"Subtle Blow" +5
"Counter" +2
INT +8

if you aren't absolutely accuracy capped, the +4 accuracy from full usu should outparse the 1% haste; and 6 str will definitely outparse the loss of 3 attack.

element: thunder shouldn't matter; +56 evasion and counter+2 will do more than the def and hp against non-magical attacks, etc.

[Cream Soda]

Get dusk+1 and do mix and match!

[SamanosukeShiva]

where do you get +56 evasion? lol i'm counting 29 from set

[Cream Soda]

He's also including the evasion- that you now don't have from ace's haub ect

[Amele]

Get dusk+1 and do mix and match!

yeah, with dusk+1 it'll probably be better from a pure dps standpoint to stay mix and match;

although I would probably wear the full usu whenever I was the current target anyway etc.

[Fwahm]

Anyone got a Black Cuisses vs Ares Flanchard comparison for Dark Knight WSs?

[Max™]

2 Str, 5.4 Acc, 2% DA vs +2 (3?) Mnd, and roughly 10 attack.

I'd lean towards Flanchard myself.

[Fwahm]

2 str, 4.5 acc, 2% DA vs +3 mnd/int, 12.5 attack

Also would like to know the comparison when in an accuracy capped situation.

[Max™]

Oops, yeah, reversed the 5.4 to 4.5, been dealing with a lot of time dilation maths.

In capped acc, you still need to remember that it's a 4 hit WS, but in theory cuisses would do better then.

Drk has buttloads of Att though, Acc is the weakpoint.

[Fwahm]

In events like assaults and Nyzul, I usually have capped or extremely close to capped accuracy on the majority of mobs, and I like to switch around my macros depending on how much evasion mobs have.

[ringthree]

yeah I'll come save you from yourself.

for 1% haste to be better than 5acc one of two things needs to be true:

1) you need to be above 94% hit rate across the board
2) you need to be getting more than 63% haste excluding the 1% haste in question and be around 92.5% hit rate

if you are slightly lower (say, 90% hit rate) you need 65% haste excluding that 1% haste, and if you are significantly lower (say, 80% hit rate) you need 68% haste.

a typical warrior will probably have around 26% haste from spells/songs in merit, 10% from hasso (for 36%) and ~<20% in gear (56% ttl). I'm willing to bet that you're below the 63% minimum threshold assuming you actually get benefit from all 5 accuracy.


for the 1haste vs. 7 accuracy question: don't be retarded. it was for getting that last .4% on a full 25% haste zerg set pre-global attack speed cap nerf. they just haven't gone down yet because it's still useful for reaching the global attack speed cap in some setups. (the global cap being 80%) and might save a merit in desperate blows. wearing one in normal situations over even just 5 acc (see work above) is probably a bad idea.

edit: and ridill is 30 50 20 (there's been extensive tests done. some are archived on the discussion page at otherwiki; others are in the search forums here. searain of garuda did alot of testing; so did maxx if I recall correctly.) brutal was also tested: it's either blank (no net change in average hits) or slightly negative; based on MOE in the tests; it is definitely not going to improve your hits/rnd.

A reasonable interpretation of the test could also be 25 50 25, and just seems more logical.

[Ayn]

Here's a question I've been wondering, regarding Monk and DRK

I know it's very difficult to beat the +6% Crit hit rate of destroyers, but in looking at Acantha shavers, when paired with the earring:

+18 DMG, 48 delay, Crit hit rate +6%
versus
+18 DMG, 51 Delay, Store TP 1
+6 STR, +6 Attack (when paired with the Supremacy Earring)

Will destroyers pretty much trounce these in any given situation?

Additionally, going along with the same set:

Moliones Sickle + Ring:
95 Base DMG, 501 Delay, +7 STR, +5 Accuracy, enhances Souleater effect (Sickle is +3 STR, Ring is +4 and adds +5 accuracy when paired with the ring)
versus

Vendetta
97 Base DMG, 528 Delay, +6 STR, +6 Attack (the latter two stats being the earring bonus)

Using the Vendetta would require me to give up one earring slot (I use Ethereal). Using the Sickle requires me to give up a ring slot, where I normally put Sniper's +1.

And the final question:

Full Usukane Monks, have you found the damage you give up from extra kick damage to be worth the extra 2% haste in the long run?

Any help is appreciated. Also thanks to Samanosuke for bring up the Samurai question in regards to full Usukane. I'd been wondering that myself. . though since I sold my dusk (had Homam for THF and DRK Askar's good enough for how rarely I use my WAR) it's actually a slight gain for me there.