Whats better?

[Baelorn]

it's closer to 2% than 20%; so if your sam is basically a toy job you bring to the occasional limbus run, hagun probably isn't worth the investment.

Is the difference really that small? A lot of endgame SAMs seem to think Hagun completely changes the job.

[Wolfknight]

Is the difference really that small? A lot of endgame SAMs seem to think Hagun completely changes the job.

the more merits you have large gap really, overwhelm, store tp, and mediate merits all put hagun that much more ahead of onimaru, maybe it's only 2% for a completely unmerited non-6 hit sam, but it's more than that once u have 6-hit, overwhelm, and etc.

[Amele]

the more merits you have large gap really, overwhelm, store tp, and mediate merits all put hagun that much more ahead of onimaru, maybe it's only 2% for a completely unmerited non-6 hit sam, but it's more than that once u have 6-hit, overwhelm, and etc.

multiplication doesn't work that way. sorry

yes, the difference is really that close.

it's just that it *looks* bigger if you don't parse it closely, and people with haguns tend to have tighter play than people who don't.

on hnm stuff the gap will be larger, slightly. in the sense that one stuff your shell doesn't let you melee, there's nothing oni can do to make it up.

2.5% acc is about 2.7%, 18 attack is about 3% (assuming 600 attack), 83D at 11fstr is about 9.3%. - versus a naked D75 that rolls up to be ~15%. hagun has a 20% advantage in ws, 1.2/1.15 = 4.3% (and that's the biggest it will be, if you never get tp mode damage) add in tp mode damage and the gap shrinks - a little or a lot depending on the exact situation.

4.3% is alot (more than any whitebox would give) but isn't the 20% that people like to throw around.

we can add overwhelm in, but if x=1.043*y. then 1.19*x=1.19*1.043y = x = 1.043*y etc

[Wolfknight]

multiplication doesn't work that way. sorry

yes, the difference is really that close.

it's just that it *looks* bigger if you don't parse it closely, and people with haguns tend to have tighter play than people who don't.

on hnm stuff the gap will be larger, slightly. in the sense that one stuff your shell doesn't let you melee, there's nothing oni can do to make it up.

2.5% acc is about 2.7%, 18 attack is about 3% (assuming 600 attack), 83D at 11fstr is about 9.3%. - versus a naked D75 that rolls up to be ~15%. hagun has a 20% advantage in ws, 1.2/1.15 = 4.3% (and that's the biggest it will be, if you never get tp mode damage) add in tp mode damage and the gap shrinks - a little or a lot depending on the exact situation.

4.3% is alot (more than any whitebox would give) but isn't the 20% that people like to throw around.

we can add overwhelm in, but if x=1.043*y. then 1.19*x=1.19*1.043y = x = 1.043*y etc

I meant 6-hit more than others things, since the difference between 6-hit hagun vs 6-hit onimaru will be a large a gap than 7 hit for each since it shifts a higher % of your damage to weapon skill because 5 melee to one ws instead of 6 to one ws which would favor onimaru more, while overwhelm and more mediate do the same to a lesser degree, thus a larger % of your damage is coming from ws, because for hagun avg 900 becomes 900*1.19 = 1071, while lets say 750 avg for onimaru which becomes 750*1.19 = 892.5, and 900-750 = 150 dmg difference per ws while 1071-892.5 = 178.5 dmg difference per ws, which means the gap is larger when u account for overwhelm.

[Amele]

I meant 6-hit more than others things, since the difference between 6-hit hagun vs 6-hit onimaru will be a large a gap than 7 hit for each since it shifts a higher % of your damage to weapon skill because 5 melee to one ws instead of 6 to one ws which would favor onimaru more, while overwhelm and more mediate do the same to a lesser degree, thus a larger % of your damage is coming from ws, because for hagun avg 900 becomes 900*1.19 = 1071, while lets say 750 avg for onimaru which becomes 750*1.19 = 892.5, and 900-750 = 150 dmg difference per ws while 1071-892.5 = 178.5 dmg difference per ws, which means the gap is larger when u account for overwhelm.

the 4.3% damage gap is excluding -all melee hits- and is WS only.

the gap will never be larger than 4.3%. It can be smaller and will be smaller, assuming you get to melee at all.

edit: I'd also like to point out that in your example, 900/750 = 1.2 and 1071/892.5 also equals 1.2. (and is an inaccurate example.) in situations where hagun is doing 900, onimaru will be doing about 860. you would need to be wielding a Tachi of Trials to be doing about 750.

[BadKarma]

Penta Thrust
Level 52 DRG
level 50 Gigas Bracelets STR +7 DEX-4 vs Spiked Finger Gauntlets Attack +12

[Max™]

Don't use multi-hitters with -Dex, especially ones with even trivial Dex mods, as I could swear Penta had.

Though I will be guilty of this sin when I get KJ, which I will probably use Alky's on, but I'll be at positive Dex still.

[Tulun]

Tred with Brave Grip: far better than Perdu / Death Scythe now?

[Raen Ryong]

Difficult to say at this stage I'd say... you're still only giving it an advantage over the other scythes on the 13th hit, and Perdu has the delay advantage, DoT increase from +acc and +atk and Guillotine cannot crit. Maybe if DRK had a crit-based WS but I can't see it happening at the moment.

[Indalecia]

Leaving aside perdu (I'm not using that glorified coat hanger), brave grip or pole strap with Tredicem? I have askar body and brutal.

Yes I know I have 6 hit w/o askar body but I don't have an acc issue.

[Tulun]

Difficult to say at this stage I'd say... you're still only giving it an advantage over the other scythes on the 13th hit, and Perdu has the delay advantage, DoT increase from +acc and +atk and Guillotine cannot crit. Maybe if DRK had a crit-based WS but I can't see it happening at the moment.

Well, you *can* crit on a hit other than the 13th too, but it's just for sure on #13.

But fair enough on too early to say. I'm just curious

[richardd]

For Raging Rush:
Heca Hands or Ares Gauntlets
Warwolf belt or Potent Belt (no war stone anyway if thats better than the 2)
Heca feet or ares feet

[Raen Ryong]

Well, you *can* crit on a hit other than the 13th too, but it's just for sure on #13.

But fair enough on too early to say. I'm just curious

Yeah, I was just more pointing out it's only *potentially* on the 13th hit that Tredecim has a real advantage even with Brave Grip in most situations (potentially because if the hit misses or would've criticalled using perdu, wasted "13 advantage cycle").

[Jones]

I think my question got lost back on the bottom of pg. 56. Anyone care to address it?

[jimbobsonofgod]

Nope I think you just about covered it.

[Max™]

For Raging Rush:
Heca Hands
Warwolf belt
Heca feet

Only use Ares hands/feet/potent if you're RRing on Faf/Nid or something to make Frag.

I would use War stone for KJ if I had one, 7 Acc > Warwolf for that case.

If Brave was 10%, it would rock, it looks like it's only 3%, so meh. Only thing it stands out as OMGWTFAWESOME for, is SA WSes, or War 2hr zerging.

[Trime]

Leaving aside perdu (I'm not using that glorified coat hanger), brave grip or pole strap with Tredicem? I have askar body and brutal.

Yes I know I have 6 hit w/o askar body but I don't have an acc issue.

Do you have an Apoc or are you playing a different game? I thought its been tested that Haubergeon/Adaberk both outperform it whenever your acc isn't capped. Which it isn't at mamool camps and on lots of HNMs. Only place I could ever see myself using askar body would be on colibri and thats with rest of my tp gear almost perfected (this is for a hagun sam).

[Indalecia]

Thanks.

Now can someone please answer the question I asked?

[Trime]

Thanks.

Now can someone please answer the question I asked?

Why post in a whats better thread when you are already using gear that I am sure you must be aware is inferior to another that you can easily obtain. Just follow suit with your body choice and equip whatever gives you the biggest E-peen.

[Indalecia]

Because, twinkle-toes, I'm asking about an overall crit/main weapon build. NOT asking about what body to use. Thanks tho.