Whats better?

[jibini]

Yeah, unbelievable as it sounds, it really is a huge boost.

In fact, if you check this thread over on Alla, Milich/Pahn has been trying to pin down the exact numbers. It seems the accuracy boost is equivalent to at least +70 acc.

[Tubbers]

Holy shit, I stand corrected, from the looks of it, seems like an acc+% boost, since there's no way single hits are +70 acc at lower levels.

[Trime]

I was very careful to make sure I didn't give people the impression I was refering to TP accuracy. I am well aware I'm below capped on thf mamools and probably slightly under on fafnir also even before he uses wing. The poster above mentioned a link to Alla, it has also been well documented on KI aswell and I believe Rukenshin has also done some testing on it here so between the 3 major forums I can't see how it hasn't become general knowledge that all 1-hit get a HUGE accuracy boost.

So to all you people WSing in AF+1 over Alkys read http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...Gekko+accuracy

I couldn't be bothered to find the KI link but it says essentially the same thing.

[Amele]

Holy shit, I stand corrected, from the looks of it, seems like an acc+% boost, since there's no way single hits are +70 acc at lower levels.

it could very well be inverse to your accuracy too or rather than a %boost, just a static accuracy peg - while people show parses all the time of 90%+ acc on the ws, there are parses floating around demonstrating higher acc with myo+1 than alky's.(I regret I don't have any onhand; I'll keep looking or try to find time to parse myself) to be fair; most of the people advocating for myo+1 aren't really talking about your typical colibri party (408 acc is very easy to get on sam if you have a bard who's dumb enough to give you madrigal 'since you can't eat food' /facepalm)

also; the particular +60 acc estimate in the first post is iffy; he forgot to include DA/zanshin again. his expected ws acc assuming no buff should have been around 70.5%* so a demonstrated 95% acc could be achieved with as little as +49 acc. (which is still a significant boost) also; standard comment about how his sample size is too small to make real estimates about what the actual acc boost is (although the sample is sufficient to state that there *is* a ws acc boost of some kind present.)


the next step is probably to test with blind pots.

*assumes brutal earring and a base zanshin proc rate of 10%; with no accuracy boost on zanshin itself. if zanshin base proc rate is higher than 10% (I suspect it may be as high as 20% base but it's obv. hard to test for) then obviously this expected accuracy goes down.

[seph32]

Picked up a naglering last night I hear people saying you can 6-hit with it how does it compare to algol and subduer? From what I understand you need totally 23 STP Atm I have 21 STP is it worthed to sacrifice acc to gain a 6-hit build assuming you use attack food most of the time?

Thanks for any feedback!

[Amele]

Picked up a naglering last night I hear people saying you can 6-hit with it how does it compare to algol and subduer? From what I understand you need totally 23 STP Atm I have 21 STP is it worthed to sacrifice acc to gain a 6-hit build assuming you use attack food most of the time?

Thanks for any feedback!

how much accuracy would you be sacrificing? (in general; yes)

[seph32]

I have the following options I think white tathlum is the best option

Option 1
- Fire bomblet
+ white tathlum

-6 acc and attack

Option 2
- Haubergeon +1
+ Askar body

-12 acc and 6 DEX 1 STR
+12 eva and 2 double attack

Option 3
- peacock charm
- sniper ring +1
+chiv chain
+ Ecphoria ring

-8 acc

Other pieces also require too many ws rebuild while tathlum is only one slot im generally not a fan of sacrifcing acc espcially not on big stuff cause attack food is the way I go should the -6 acc/attack from losing fire bomblet be worth the 6-hit build with naglering?

Thanks for any feedback!

[Trime]

Yes white tathlum would probably be the best sacrifice, I'm probably going to have to use one in place of tiphia sting when I finish Amano because with Usukane feet its the smallest loss in acc to retain 6 hit.

[seph32]

I'm also planning on going Diabolic eye 5/5 I have around 320 dark magic skill so I think the 20 acc boost from DE would be more efficient. Should be fine going with white tathlum, right?

On another note chiv chain would be bad since i would lose the option using breeze gorget

[Trime]

Depends if you ever use your drk for zerging at all, I think 1 merit in Seal is always worth getting because it guarentees you'll get a good drain 2 in for SE/BW zerg, even with 320 skill if you're fighting something thats much higher level or is naturally resistant you will need Seal.

But I think you don't need 5/5 on blows to cap JA haste (someone recently tested I forget who) with Hasso anyway so you have some merits there you can play with whilst still getting 5/5 DE.

[Amele]

Yes white tathlum would probably be the best sacrifice, I'm probably going to have to use one in place of tiphia sting when I finish Amano because with Usukane feet its the smallest loss in acc to retain 6 hit.

angling for a true six? if you do an aftermath six; you actually get to trim store TP iirc.

[SephYuyX]

Worker gear vs Field gear.
Is there any difference in results? Any data to back up either answer?

[Trime]

angling for a true six? if you do an aftermath six; you actually get to trim store TP iirc.

Yes angling for true 6 hit, I know I could go w/o the white tathlum assuming I get 1 or 2 hits in with the aftermath still in effect, but I feel the number of times that won't happen will easily outweigh the benefits of black Tathlum (if your WS kills the mob you may end up waiting 20-30 seconds before you engage the next mob for any number of reasons depending on what you're doing). Also the number of times I would use Y/G/K or even Rana would also be enough to warrant true 6 hit.

If i got usukane body though I would fulltime that and get a Black Tathlum.

In regards to using chiv chain instead of gorget you want to avoid that in any way possible, either gimp your non-brutal earring or non-rajas ring down to Attila's/Ecphoria or get Askar body if its a 1 hit WS.

[Cream Soda]

Not sure about you guys but I'm looking at option 3. Didn't really look at any of the gear, just the end results and I'd take -8 acc over -6 acc -6 attack

[Amele]

Yes angling for true 6 hit, I know I could go w/o the white tathlum assuming I get 1 or 2 hits in with the aftermath still in effect, but I feel the number of times that won't happen will easily outweigh the benefits of black Tathlum (if your WS kills the mob you may end up waiting 20-30 seconds before you engage the next mob for any number of reasons depending on what you're doing). Also the number of times I would use Y/G/K or even Rana would also be enough to warrant true 6 hit.

If i got usukane body though I would fulltime that and get a Black Tathlum.

assuming moderate haste (18% haste gear; 4% head, 3% hands, 5% legs, 2% feet, 4% waist) haste spell, and one march; you have ~44% haste; with a 437 delay weapon; you have a base swing speed of 7.3 seconds (7.29) which gives a net swing speed of 4.1 seconds (4.088).

aftermath lasts 30 seconds from ws; assuming worst case timing (you WS at 0.0 seconds after the last swing) you will get 7 rounds before the aftermath drops.

if your accuracy is 90% (a reasonable expectation for a relic sam) then you will hit at least 5 of 7 rounds 97% of the time; ignoring double attack and zanshin.

on average; you will take approximately 20 seconds to reach 100TP as sam/war, ignoring meditate. - (normalized average sec/hit of 3.9 with 15% DA and 10% zanshin)

of course, if you miss a kaiten it can hurt - but even if this happens, the aftermath will typically last 10 seconds after ws on average, allowing time for two more swings. assuming rajas/5merits/brutal/usufeet, you have 55/48 store TP and will get: 17.2+17.2+16.4+16.4+16.4+16.4 = 100TP -> still a 6 hit setup.




in fact, this is a pretty good demo that as long as you get two hits during aftermath (inc. ws if ws was performed during aftermath) you will have a six hit setup no matter how long it takes you to reach 100TP.

[Amele]

Not sure about you guys but I'm looking at option 3. Didn't really look at any of the gear, just the end results and I'd take -8 acc over -6 acc -6 attack

2 acc should be worth more than 6 attack in most reasonable situations (6 attack is worth ~1% dps; 2 acc is ~1.1% dps; assuming ~600attack and 90% accuracy)

[seph32]

Another side effect going pcc > chiv chain I'd have to keep chiv chain equiped during ws which means i can't use any ws gorgets.

[Cream Soda]

2 acc should be worth more than 6 attack in most reasonable situations (6 attack is worth ~1% dps; 2 acc is ~1.1% dps; assuming ~600attack and 90% accuracy)

Hmm but if 2 acc is worth more than 6 attack, you're pretty much saying that Cuchulian's mantle is better than Cerb+1
(2 acc > 6 attack = 1 acc > 3 attack)
5 acc > 15 attack
they have the same str so that wouldn't make a diff there and the Cuch has the added dex.

I know i sure as fuck wouldn't' use that over a cerb+1

[Amele]

Hmm but if 2 acc is worth more than 6 attack, you're pretty much saying that Cuchulian's mantle is better than Cerb+1
(2 acc > 6 attack = 1 acc > 3 attack)
5 acc > 15 attack
they have the same str so that wouldn't make a diff there and the Cuch has the added dex.

I know i sure as fuck wouldn't' use that over a cerb+1

you're right, I didn't account for the effect cRatio has.

including a standard .35 (level 82) cRatio penalty the model is closer to 2.5 attack:1acc than 3:1. so your initial plan looks better

[Trime]

I know that every time I have a constant feed of mobs I can quite easily retain 6 hit with just the normal tp gear + kaitens store tp. But for situations such as changing a floor in limbus or running to next camp in dynamis or a break in merit party theres chance I will end up loosing 6 hit. That doesn't account for the times I use Y/G/K on anything with higher defense or if I want to interupt a spell with silence or something, as I would loose 6 hit on any of those occasions.