Shield block numbers?

[Ferien]

Apparently this was the source of the assertion that shield def value affects damage reduction amount: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... 2109938677

The OP's testing methods sound solid to me, he was shooting for def near mob att and used the mode values for blocked and unblocked hits to determine damage reduction.

That's actually pretty interesting...shame it's on Alla.

I'm going to run some numbers and try to pull some data together. I've already written a script to pull hit data out of a parse, so it shouldn't take me very long, as long as I can find the parse logs. Woozie, if you read this, get back to me ASAP so I can run them on the rest of your logs.

[Ferien]

k, first set of data is parsed. Test is Aegis vs Steelshells, I have no other info on the PLD in question, we can get that once Woozie (or Jillia, for that matter) replies again.

Counts
Total hits: 537
Total blocks: 323
Block percentage: 60.15%

Minimum
noncrit, unblocked: 43
noncrit, blocked: 10
crit, unblocked: 104
crit, blocked: 25

Maximum
noncrit, unblocked: 94
noncrit, blocked: 18
crit, unblocked: 158
crit, blocked: 38

Average
noncrit, unblocked: 63.48
noncrit, blocked: 15.27
noncrit %age reduction: 75.94%

crit, unblocked: 133.67
crit, blocked: 31.79
crit %age reduction: 76.22%

I know Woozie has a TON more data he's been looking to go through, with different shields and setups. Once he gets back to me I'll have more to bring up.

[Neosutra]

k, first set of data is parsed. Test is Aegis vs Steelshells, I have no other info on the PLD in question, we can get that once Woozie (or Jillia, for that matter) replies again.

Counts
Total hits: 537
Total blocks: 323
Block percentage: 60.15%

Minimum
noncrit, unblocked: 43
noncrit, blocked: 10
crit, unblocked: 104
crit, blocked: 25

Maximum
noncrit, unblocked: 94
noncrit, blocked: 18
crit, unblocked: 158
crit, blocked: 38

Average
noncrit, unblocked: 63.48
noncrit, blocked: 15.27
noncrit %age reduction: 75.94%

crit, unblocked: 133.67
crit, blocked: 31.79
crit %age reduction: 76.22%

I know Woozie has a TON more data he's been looking to go through, with different shields and setups. Once he gets back to me I'll have more to bring up.

Im assuming you already hit the shield block cap on steel shells as they are pretty low lvl, but what was your shield skill atm? And the problem with this at the moment is steel shells can pop from decent - tough, which may change your shield block percentage a good deal depending on your gear.
From just eyeballing it though it seems that you got a 60% block rate with a 75% damage reduction on block on steelshells ranging from decent->tough. Would be nice to determing shield skill effect on this block rate and also compare total damage reduction over time to say a keonig shield. Im suprised though, I expected Aegis block % to be in the 70-75% block rate on something so low.... Im hoping you werent wearing that much shield gear and were fighting alot of toughs,... Dont kill all my dreams.

[Ferien]

Did you not read what I said? The data isn't mine, it's Woozie's. The PLD in question is Jillia, and I don't know what his/her gear setup was. Also, they spent the whole time with only one Steelshell, doing no damage to it, to remove any sort of level variation. Based on 537 hits, I parsed out a 60% proc rate with a 76% damage reduction. Those numbers aren't eyeballed, they're pulled straight out of a log file into Excel and averaged. The only way to get better data than that is to just get more of it, and for that I need to wait for Woozie (or anyone else tbh) to get the rest of his data.

[Neosutra]

Did you not read what I said? The data isn't mine, it's Woozie's. The PLD in question is Jillia, and I don't know what his/her gear setup was. Also, they spent the whole time with only one Steelshell, doing no damage to it, to remove any sort of level variation. Based on 537 hits, I parsed out a 60% proc rate with a 76% damage reduction. Those numbers aren't eyeballed, they're pulled straight out of a log file into Excel and averaged. The only way to get better data than that is to just get more of it, and for that I need to wait for Woozie (or anyone else tbh) to get the rest of his data.

Ya, I read what you said, just detailed the things id like answers too next time. Add to that: Was it a decent challenge, EM, T? And if its Jillia, ill ask her myself since shes a friend of mine. And I didnt say you eyeballed them, i said I just glanced at it, and was suprised at how low the proc rate, thus forcing the question on gear. Be less defensive, not everyone is out to get you.

[Ferien]

Did you not read what I said? The data isn't mine, it's Woozie's. The PLD in question is Jillia, and I don't know what his/her gear setup was. Also, they spent the whole time with only one Steelshell, doing no damage to it, to remove any sort of level variation. Based on 537 hits, I parsed out a 60% proc rate with a 76% damage reduction. Those numbers aren't eyeballed, they're pulled straight out of a log file into Excel and averaged. The only way to get better data than that is to just get more of it, and for that I need to wait for Woozie (or anyone else tbh) to get the rest of his data.

Ya, I read what you said, just detailed the things id like answers too next time. Add to that: Was it a decent challenge, EM, T? And if its Jillia, ill ask her myself since shes a friend of mine. And I didnt say you eyeballed them, i said I just glanced at it, and was suprised at how low the proc rate, thus forcing the question on gear. Be less defensive, not everyone is out to get you.

Just confused based on how you worded your response. Jillia should be able to answer your questions about her gear and exactly how they did the tests, since it's been a while since I spoke to Woozie about it. Also, if you could get him to email me about this again, I'd appreciate it >.>

[Woozie]

VIT: 70+25 AGI: 56+5 Skill: 316 DEF: 423

I have more data as well from a few other tests but haven't put it into a spreadsheet yet. Also, my tests got put to a halt when I got a job and was no longer playing while Jillia was online. She eventually moved server, which made it even harder to do the tests.

However, one of my LS leaders now has aegis, and I'm going to do more tests on Aegis/Koenig shield/Tatami shield sometime (soon hopefully).

And if you're wondering, she accidentally erased one of her shield merits. This is how she managed 316 instead of 318.

Edit: The steelshell was an even match. I'm going to keep testing on steelshells for now. After I get a decent amount of data, I'll test on higher level mobs to see if there's a difference (and how much of a difference, etc). I eventually plan to test Agi and shield skill. I never thought to test the def of the shield, but I will be using the same shields (Tatami Koenig Aegis) for the tests. I may go ahead and test some other size shields if possible.

[Neosutra]

VIT: 70+25 AGI: 56+5 Skill: 316 DEF: 423

I have more data as well from a few other tests but haven't put it into a spreadsheet yet. Also, my tests got put to a halt when I got a job and was no longer playing while Jillia was online. She eventually moved server, which made it even harder to do the tests.

However, one of my LS leaders now has aegis, and I'm going to do more tests on Aegis/Koenig shield/Tatami shield sometime (soon hopefully).

And if you're wondering, she accidentally erased one of her shield merits. This is how she managed 316 instead of 318.

Edit: The steelshell was an even match. I'm going to keep testing on steelshells for now. After I get a decent amount of data, I'll test on higher level mobs to see if there's a difference (and how much of a difference, etc). I eventually plan to test Agi and shield skill. I never thought to test the def of the shield, but I will be using the same shields (Tatami Koenig Aegis) for the tests. I may go ahead and test some other size shields if possible.

TY woozie, i guess i can just tell you in game for more info

316 shield skill on an even match should be plenty to reach shield block cap... So im a bit dissapointed with its actication rate, as I had continually heard 70% or higher. If its 60%rate @ 75% damage reduction, thats not HOLY CRAP above and beyond a standard Keonig shield (60% rate @ 60% reduction) if im doing my math right:

Reducing 75% of the damage 60% of the time = 45% total damage reduction over time.
Reducing 60% of the damage 60% of the time = 36% total damage reduction over time.

So aegis would only give 9% added physical damage reduction over standard keonig pld...

And yes I know im leaving out the -25% magic damage which rocks, the added shield bash, and the possibility that it caps shield block rate at a lower amount of shield skill and easier on harder mobs.

But from this data, Aegis seems to really shine on much harder mobs, where its harder for keonig plds to reach the shield block cap, and 10% damage is a big deal. I can see aegis not "blowing" other sheilds out of the water on things below VT though.

Either way, cant look back now, should have shield completed in another month or 2, just really expected a higher damage difference over koenig (on the order of 20%+).

Oh well. Still rocks. Still gonna finish shield.

Edit: Why did Jillia switch servers, i didnt get a chance to talk to her before she left and was looking forward to testing her new shield out.

[Woozie]

She moved away to finish some schooling and gave her account to her cousin, who switched servers.

[Neosutra]

She moved away to finish some schooling and gave her account to her cousin, who switched servers.

....


The curse of the relic. Guess I should plan on quiting the game when I finish.

[Woozie]

I always thought the curse of the relic was either quitting your current LS or getting banned for some reason? Or am I getting that confused with Ridill?

[Neosutra]

I always thought the curse of the relic was either quitting your current LS or getting banned for some reason? Or am I getting that confused with Ridill?

Ya, think your right, Pimpdaddy and Seeker still play, and I dont see magnus quiting anytime soon. Juma and I are on stage 4, but my luck in crafting the next few weeks will see how that goes. Unless Zaib wants to loan me about 40 Silvers in the next week. >.> <.< >.>

Are there any other shields on phoenix im forgetting?

[Woozie]

There aren't any others as far as I know.

[Woozie]

Woozie, if you read this, get back to me ASAP so I can run them on the rest of your logs.

You're never on AIM anymore D:

[Valyana]

Average

Can you also pull out mode values? Fighting an EM, you're probably going to be close enough to neutral def that the most common damage number is 1.0 pDIF.

[Ferien]

Sure!

Modes
Noncrit blocked: 18
Noncrit unblocked: 74

The Crit sample size was very small, 31 hits out of 537, so the Mode values are garbage. Here are the actual values for that portion, just for reference:

25	104
26	108
26	112
27	121
28	122
28	132
29	141
29	144
30	152
32	154
33	156
34	158
35	
36	
36	
37	
37	
38	
38

[Valyana]

Modes
Noncrit blocked: 18
Noncrit unblocked: 74

Thanks. That looks like an even 75% (192/256) reduction.

[Ferien]

Hmm...

           Num    Num   %age   out of 256
Min         10     43  76.74%    196.46
Max         18     94  80.85%    206.97
Average  15.27  63.48  75.94%    194.40
Count      304    202  60.08%    153.80
Mode        18     74  75.68%    193.72

Also, got in touch with Woozie last night, will run the numbers on his other tests as soon as they come in.

[Ferien]

Got more stuff from Woozie today, tests on Ancile and Koenig Shield. It's...really hard to figure out where the Shield blocks are on both of them. However, I was able to pull the 2 most frequent numbers from them, which should give us some sort of stepping point.

Koenig Shield:
Mode1: 65
Mode2: 25
Difference: 61.5%

Ancile:
Mode1: 41
Mode2: 67
Difference: 38.8%

Koenig Shield seems pretty consistent with what we already know, but the reduction on Ancile seems way high. Unfortunately, it's much harder to tell the difference between a proc and a regular hit with these two shields than it was with Aegis. I'll see if I can pick it apart.

[Woozie]

When I was doing the test, I noticed that Magnus could get hit for 31-33 damage with blocks and with non blocks on Ancile, thus making it hard to distinguish between blocks and non blocks.