Why are people still joining the military?

[Devek]

.. and not to their face.

Dare you to go to a base and start telling people that.

That's a little unfair. As much as I disagree with racism, it would be unfair to tell someone to go to Harlem with a nigger sign a'la Die Hard and see what happens. Why? Because you could tell someone to the special olympics and call people retards and see what happens, too. The fact that a group of anything together could kick your ass (except quadraplegics) doesn't make anything right or wrong. It just means they can kick your ass.

If someone was sitting on the Internet talking about how all "all niggers are stupid", I would make the same suggestion.

[Epyslon]

Personally i think it would be fun. But I have never been in the "sane" mindset. I would join the Airborne rangers since i love skydiving. My best friend is on his 2nd Tour in Iraq. He hates it tho, wanted to join to kill people when we were kids now he wishes he had never singed up.


Anywho people are stupid, and will do what they want.

[Beckwin]

Uh, kinda think things are getting off track here: the question isn't "is joining the military bad/stupid?" it's "is joining the military now bad/stupid?"

Bottom line is that right now and for the past couple years, if you join you're basically agreeing to go fight in Iraq and all that entails. It's not a matter of defending the country right now... what it is exactly is up for debate, but what it isn't is pretty clear now and has been for awhile.

As for those who join the military, in general: either gung ho, or need something to do with their lives. A kind of sub-category for the need-something-to-do's are the ones that just want to get away. I went to school with them all. Also, I'm not gonna buy the "omg can't comment unless you've done it" bullshit because the original question is the reasons for joining in the first place, and that's a consideration made before having "done it".

[Tenren]

Honestly though, there is enough financial aid and scholarships for school that high school graduates have access to that going to college is a feasible option. Unless the person fucked up in HS or didn't do too well to be granted scholarships, then joining the military as a means of paying for an education is odd. There are many students I knew at the University of California, Irvine that paid for their own tuition by working while going to school. I respect those who goto armed forces as it is a choice they made, but I believe that some choices to join are not rational. I have lived in Los Angeles all my life and a university graduate makes around 35-40k a year starting pay. Obviously as experience increases you get more money. If joining the military to make money is one of the main purpose then honestly that's stupid in terms of getting an education and moving up the corporate ladder. All other reasons to join are personal issues I guess but financially joining the Military is stupid imo

I have friends that are serving in Iraq right now and I hope they come back safely, but the fact remains that they didn't do too well in HS and didn't have the motivation to pursue an education at the community college level, so they didn't have much an option since HS graduates get paid like shit.

[Credos]

I love the people who say that the general intelligence in the military is of a lower average than normal civilians. If you think every front line troop is some reject you watch too many movies; sure they are there but what about the radar techs, communications people, translators, special ops groups, etc. Just because you're not strong with averages and shit doesn't make you stupid. I bet you there are maybe 1-2 people who posted on this thread that can field strip a rifle in a absurdly short time, or call in air strikes with perfect accuracy, with bullets and mortars flying by and going off all around them.

I joined the military on 9/12/01 (Dropped out of College but I am now out) because of what happened to the Twin Towers. I saw them come down (I live 30 min away from NYC), and when the second one crashed something in me said that I needed to do something about it. It had nothing to do with greed or stupidity; it had to do with the fact that I'm proud of where I'm from and I am willing to defend my country.

Do I agree with the agenda of Bush? No I don't. But I also didn't know his agenda either; when I was there we were getting rid of Saddam. I read an article when I was over there, right around the time that we captured Saddam. It was about a man who was living inside of a wall in his family's home for over 16 years because he said something bad about the Government. The day after Saddam's capture, he was able to finally come out from hiding and live again. This hit me on two levels; one, the fact that the dude was in a wall living for 16 years and we were able to help him finally start to live again. And secondly, for as many of you that think that the Government is so fucking horrible and evil, why don't you go take a look at places like China, where government employees take needles filled with an abortion cocktail and hold down pregnant women and kill their baby. Or places like the middle east, where people can't enjoy the same luxuries that Americans do, because they have to worry about some religious militant running into their store and blowing themselves up. Is the Government perfect? Not by a long shot; but there has never been anything that man has created that has been perfect, and in my opinion the US is pretty damn good.

Also, for the people who are talking bad about the soldiers, I really think you should tell them that they are stupid, or greedy to their face. Sure you may get your ass kicked, but before you make assumptions it'd be better to actually talk to the people who are soldiers, so maybe you can understand a bit more outside of the Colbert report.

To the people who think the military is stupid, I'd like you to think about something for just a moment; the reason why you can sit at home watching your comedy central, eating doritos and fingerbanging mary jane rotten-crotch* is because of those "Stupid, greedy" soldiers who are in the military. This thread reminds me a lot of what I read about during Vietnam, and those soldiers are fucked in the head because of what they did, and then they came home and were spit on, called baby killers, etc. Please don't do that again.

*Whoever gets that reference gets a drink on me.

[Beckwin]

The war in Iraq and what our soldiers are doing over there has nothing at all to do with "the reason why you can sit at home watching your comedy central, eating doritos and fingerbanging mary jane rotten-crotch*". That's such a terrible line of reasoning to defend a war in which we are the aggressors.

[Credos]

The war in Iraq and what our soldiers are doing over there has nothing at all to do with "the reason why you can sit at home watching your comedy central, eating doritos and fingerbanging mary jane rotten-crotch*". That's such a terrible line of reasoning to defend a war in which we are the aggressors.

I was talking about the military in general, not specifically the war in Iraq.

[Beckwin]

Right, but the topic at hand is joining the military now, not joining the military ever.

[Devek]

Cause every person who joins the military NOW is going to end up in Iraq tomorrow killing babies.

If you're a young person without much opportunity, direction, or your own family joining is the very smart movie, even today.

[Sadler]

lol... is this thread serious?

Consider yourself lucky "serving" for you country isnt mandatory..... hell in Turkey if you don't serve in your countrys military you are frowned apon by your family and friends since it is the one of the proudest things you can do as a citizen.

[BRP]

This thread is crime against humanity, holy crap. The OP was bad enough as it is, but now it's fallen into this little topic of bashing soldiers.

A lot people think they are a member of a superior sub-race of humanity(who all happen to be incredibly liberal it seems). The idea of going to war in a far away country away from home scares the jesus out of me. Whether you disagree with what they are fighting for or think they are stupid, with exception to the crazy ones or the ones who lack morals, those guys have balls. Huge balls. They will be more of a man any here will ever be. It might be a good idea to respect that, because they are doing something you would be way too afraid to attempt. You can hate the president all you want, but to insult the soldiers? What a cowardly outlook.

Don't go and name them as some bunch of dumb slaughter cattle who don't know right from left. "HURR, HURR, DUMB CENTRAL AMERIKKANS GUNNA KILL SOME IRAQIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO DUMB TO DO ANYTHING ELSE" is the stupidest shit I've heard in awhile.

[poland]

rather be dead

yea

[Beckwin]

BRP, you're a fucking moron. People are questioning why someone would join right now, not "zomg they're all a bunch of fucktarded baby rapers".

No, not all members of the military are stupid or awful human beings. Not by a long shot. My dad did 20 years and a good friend of mine is in the Marines right now (will be in Iraq within a year). But the bottom line is that in these times of an extremely objectionable war, recruiting standards have been lowered. Here's a SF Chronicle article giving an overview of the worst examples that would make even Michael Moore blush: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NG42LCIGK1.DTL

Obviously something is up. The OP, a veteran himself, is questioning the motives for people joining now. If you can't read between the lines, it's more about the problems with the war than "the troops are terrible dumb human beings". Some are revealing they want to travel, or need money for school, or structure in their lives, or can get a high-paying assignment, or they have family reasons and others express the regrets they or their friends have about joining (and some say they enjoy it).

Leave the fucking nationalist support-the-troops-always-and-unconditionally and false machismo crap out of it.

[Ivve]

I think people still join the military now because doing 7-14 months in Iraq is a gamble they're willing to take in exchange for money to go to school, better job opportunities after they've finished their time in the service, a steady paycheck, job security (unless you're a homo, you big fag!), health benefits for yourself and your dependents, etc. The same benefits exist now that have always existed, and not everyone in the country is so opposed to the war and so concerned about the Iraqi people that they are willing to give up their own chance at a debt-free, college-educated future.

[Beckwin]

The same benefits exist now that have always existed, and not everyone in the country is so opposed to the war and so concerned about the Iraqi people that they are willing to give up their own chance at a debt-free, college-educated future.

Right, and I think that's what is being questioned.

[BRP]

People are questioning why someone would join right now, not "zomg they're all a bunch of fucktarded baby rapers".

Hi there,

people are still joining the military because not everyone in america is intelligent. actually the only reason america even still functions as a "superpower" is due to the lack of across the board education.

advertising is our educational system

If my point doesn't contradict yours, just maybe I'm not disagreeing with you? How about that?

[Ivve]

The same benefits exist now that have always existed, and not everyone in the country is so opposed to the war and so concerned about the Iraqi people that they are willing to give up their own chance at a debt-free, college-educated future.

Right, and I think that's what is being questioned.

I don't understand.

Q: Why are you joining the military?
A: Benefits are good and [I/we] don't care about Iraqis enough not to join.

Q: Why are you joining the military?
A: I'm one of those people who's super gung-ho about America, and it's a big pride thing to be in the service.

Q: Why are you joining the military?
A: I actively hate Iraqis and/or the middle east.

Q: Why are you joining the military?
A: I think it would be fun to kill people.

I don't think joining the military now is any extra-special exception to joining at any other time. We are at war now, but no matter when you join, you always have to consider that as a possibility. People who are afraid of going to war in the first place aren't going to join, so I don't really understand what magic answer people are looking for. This was my particular answer:

I think people still join the military now because doing 7-14 months in Iraq is a gamble they're willing to take in exchange for [the benefits].

Are you asking why people join the military ever? Uh, for the benefits and/or because they enjoy war/guns and/or patriotism.

[Minnich]

Are you asking why people join the military ever? Uh, for the benefits and/or because they enjoy war/guns and/or patriotism.

This answer is just about as correct as anyone could get. I've had many friends join the military and each one had a different reason. However, all of the reasons could be classified under 3 categories:
1. Desire to fight/kill
2. Patriotism/pride
3. Money/benefits

I am by no means an idiot. I was already into my third year of college when I joined the Air Force at the beginning of the year. I did not do it because of patriotism or the desire to kill people. I did it because I wanted a job, and was tired of school. Now, I have a job and when I get out I'll be able to make 6 digits in the civilian world. Not too bad of a trade off IMO. Because of my job I will never really get anywhere near "the shit," so the trade-off may not be as hard to make compared to the Marines or Army.

Edit: Oh, forgot one category..
4: Someone's last resort. i.e. Bad living situation, drugs, violence, etc. (this is probably one of the more rare reasons that I've seen from all my encounters)

[Beckwin]

We are at war now, but no matter when you join, you always have to consider that as a possibility.

Ok, if you join in peacetime, you are fully aware of the possibility of combat. You hope that there'd be good reason for it, and ideally you should hope that it'd be in a defending role of some sort.

The difference is that right now, we're in the middle of a war. Anyone mildly informed knows that there have been no WMDs found. They also know that Saddam and Osama weren't in-cahoots. They should also know about the mishandlings of the war- premature victory declarations, Rumsfeld, Abu Ghraib, etc and so on. You can't be a conscientious objector to a conflict after you sign the contract, but you can prior to that.

Does that make sense at all?

[Demosthenes11]

We are at war now, but no matter when you join, you always have to consider that as a possibility.

Ok, if you join in peacetime, you are fully aware of the possibility of combat. You hope that there'd be good reason for it, and ideally you should hope that it'd be in a defending role of some sort.

The difference is that right now, we're in the middle of a war. Anyone mildly informed knows that there have been no WMDs found. They also know that Saddam and Osama weren't in-cahoots. They should also know about the mishandlings of the war- premature victory declarations, Rumsfeld, Abu Ghraib, etc and so on. You can't be a conscientious objector to a conflict after you sign the contract, but you can prior to that.

Does that make sense at all?

all of that being said, which I don't even believe to be strong cases (Osama and Saddam were sure as hell both funding terrorism, they don't need to be doing it together to be destructive), doesn't deter a lot of people simply because they still want America to win. If you believe in this country as much as I do and want what is best for it, you would love to see America come out of the middle east when it is a better/safer place, and not want to see America come out with their tails between their legs defeated. Politics and shit aside, if George Bush actually let soldiers be soldiers and removed a lot of the rules of engagement, the military would be aloud to do their fucking job instead of having to think about every life and death decision before they make it. Let america kick ass over there and things would change. If America started to kick ass, public opinion would change, because you know damn right the only reason a lot of america now disagrees with this war is because we are losing it.