Alternative Tanks for Chariots

[Ryushii]

Ok, so one of the facts of life for Salvage is that you want DD tanking for the Chariot bosses. However, my group has a rather minimal amount of MNKs and NINs, and honestly I don't feel like NINs do a great job at DD tanking anyway. Also, I really would rather not have to find more NINs and MNKs to further increase the amount of DDs in my linkshell and the amount of Usukane we have to farm. So essentially my question is this: how well can other jobs DD tank? The 3 jobs I was looking at having the most potential are WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, and SAM/NIN. WAR/NIN has Mighty Strikes (pseudo-Hundred Fists) and good axes and probably some experience with utsusemi. I thought maybe 2 THF/NIN might be able to duo it and alternate SA every 30 seconds to trade hate and spike damage, though it seems like their overall damage output would be rather low. SAM/NIN could spam WSes and Meiko Shishei (sp) would be a decent damage burst (and would provide nice SCs for the BLM). So yeah, that was my idea. Let me know if you have any opinions/suggestions.

Also, a side question: what would be a good way to tell if a person can tank well? Is there any specific mob(s) that it might be good to have them try to solo tank to see how well they can do it? A big part of this is skill, and I would rather not find out that a person sucks at tanking when they get us wiped to LBC or something. Anyway, suggestions/comments appreciated.

[Uzor]

define "minimal". You really don't need more then 1, 2 MNK's to be safe, when killing the chariots =/

[Sci]

THF gives too much TP for too little damage, and would need to be meleeing in a fair amount of evasion gear in order to evade. And that would kill damage, and they'd hold hate worse. I think it's a bad choice.

WAR is good for damage, but it would do about the same as a MNK. You could use Carbonara as food and HP would be up there like a MNK, but it would still be lacking counter, so they'd end up taking more damage than a MNK.

SAM is possible I suppose. Being able to alternate Utsusemi and Seigan/Third Eye would give a decent amount of damage mitigation. But I don't think many SAMs have much experience tanking like that.

A good test would be to have the people try to tank the Archaic Chariot in Arrapago 5F. It's easy enough to get to it with just a group of 6, and most chariots are pretty similar. Once someone knows how to tank them, it's just a matter of knowing the special moves of the boss chariots and how to deal with them.

Bhaflau: Keep on the side, shift whenever it moves to face you.
Zhayolm: Nothing special, just stand next to the other tank you're with so people can stand in the right spot as well.
Silver Seas: If you see Brainjack go off on the other tank, start running fast and try to avoid/delay getting brainjacked yourself.
Arrapago: You can blink Mortal Revolution, so try to. If it hits you the stun lasts a while.

[Slott]

Thf cant tank a boss chariot - at least I can't. I've solo tank/killed arrapago's chariot (the one that drops lvl 35 drops) but anytime i try to tank a real chariot, i get nailed for 450-500 and lose hate pretty quickly. (and typically get hit after an aoe move)

Edit: also boss chariot accuracy is way higher than arrapago nm's. It's not a very good comparison :X

[Uzor]

Have WAR tank, bring a COR and do Monk's Roll. Problem solved? >.>

I'd say the best alternate tank is WAR/NIN.

I really wouldn't reccomend THF. They'd feed a lot of TP and do close to minimal damage. Basically, it'd take ages to kill the chariot. SAM might work, but not as good as WAR.

[Arthars]

Best job to tank a chariot mega boss:

MNK(good tank + good damage)
NIN(good tank + good damage)
WAR(good tank maybe? good damage)
PLD(good tank)
RDM(good tank)

all SJ NIN tho, if u only using PLD and RDM to tank, i hope u have other job like RNG and BLM to damage the chariot (semi large grp this way)

if u have a MNK and NIN in ur run, u can do all zone with 6

i dont think any other job can do a decent job on tanking them, hold hate well, or deal decent damage to the chariot

no comments on 2 THF tank O_O;

[Ryushii]

THF gives too much TP for too little damage, and would need to be meleeing in a fair amount of evasion gear in order to evade. And that would kill damage, and they'd hold hate worse. I think it's a bad choice.

WAR is good for damage, but it would do about the same as a MNK. You could use Carbonara as food and HP would be up there like a MNK, but it would still be lacking counter, so they'd end up taking more damage than a MNK.

SAM is possible I suppose. Being able to alternate Utsusemi and Seigan/Third Eye would give a decent amount of damage mitigation. But I don't think many SAMs have much experience tanking like that.

A good test would be to have the people try to tank the Archaic Chariot in Arrapago 5F. It's easy enough to get to it with just a group of 6, and most chariots are pretty similar. Once someone knows how to tank them, it's just a matter of knowing the special moves of the boss chariots and how to deal with them.

Bhaflau: Keep on the side, shift whenever it moves to face you.
Zhayolm: Nothing special, just stand next to the other tank you're with so people can stand in the right spot as well.
Silver Seas: If you see Brainjack go off on the other tank, start running fast and try to avoid/delay getting brainjacked yourself.
Arrapago: You can blink Mortal Revolution, so try to. If it hits you the stun lasts a while.

Thank you for the feedback! I was, however, hoping for a place outside of Salvage to check tanking ability so we woulnd't have to waste event time/xp testing it. Also, does anyone have any more opinions on SAM? So far they all seem to say "I have no clue," and we have several SAM, so it would be nice to use them.

Also, minimal means 0-1 per run.

[Arthars]

and honestly I don't feel like NINs do a great job at DD tanking anyway.

my parse records r at 19xxx for my NIN
20xxx for my co tank MNK
BLM and THF other 10k

and no the MNK dont suck at all, she got the best gear ever for MNK if u ask me

well if ur talking abt a evasion NIN tank, then yeah, they suck

[Uzor]

Have your SAM's lvl MNK One of my MNK's lvled THF initially, then took his mule account and duoed with that to 75 MNK in about 20 days if I remember right. That'd give no additional Usukane lotters, and your SAM's could now effectively tank the boss. Two birds with one stone

[Kaylia]

Not every nin have kikoku tho but yeah, they do fine. Having one voke really help when mnk lose hate.

Mnk mnk + War or nin is the best imo, but any combination works for non-bhaflau chariot.

Thank you for the feedback! I was, however, hoping for a place outside of Salvage to check tanking ability so we woulnd't have to waste event time/xp testing it. Also, does anyone have any more opinions on SAM? So far they all seem to say "I have no clue," and we have several SAM, so it would be nice to use them.

Sam arent good imo. /nin isnt an option with seigan, and they won't pull hate easily

[Arthars]

kikoku not the main reason kaylia LOL

a seiji main hand NIN prob can do about the same

my JP LS's NIN and the same MNK parse about
17xxx NIN
21xxx MNK
THF BLM other 11xxx damage
4k still not alot of diff ;O

2 parse r from Arrapago boss

i can print screen next parse :D

dvrParser i saved the ile, but when i try to review, it dont work or i got something wrong lol

[Ryushii]

Not every nin have kikoku tho but yeah, they do fine. Having one voke really help when mnk lose hate.

Mnk mnk + War or nin is the best imo, but any combination works for non-bhaflau chariot.

Thank you for the feedback! I was, however, hoping for a place outside of Salvage to check tanking ability so we woulnd't have to waste event time/xp testing it. Also, does anyone have any more opinions on SAM? So far they all seem to say "I have no clue," and we have several SAM, so it would be nice to use them.

Sam arent good imo. /nin isnt an option with seigan, and they won't pull hate easily

I just had a chat with one of my SAM, actually, and /nin is viable, it just requires cancelling it before every Utsusemi cast. And why won't they pull hate easily? They spam WSes no?

[Arthars]

they dont really spam WS cos they will spend alot of time doing cunting shadows + eye work

a few AOE from chariot and only a couple of cure IV from RDM will lose hate

[Kaylia]

Don't need to show parsing I know nin does fine like I said in the post before, but kikoku has to add 1-2kdmg

I just had a chat with one of my SAM, actually, and /nin is viable, it just requires cancelling it before every Utsusemi cast. And why won't they pull hate easily? They spam WSes no?

Did he ever try tanking one...? Arthars basically answered it, but if they are recasting utsu, they aren't going to spam WS that much. Sam/nin dmg will be far inferior to nin, war and mnk on chariot as well, so I dont see how they could hold hate after one of the many shadow wipe strong AoE move that add stuff like paralyzed.

I can't imagine anyone blood talking a chariot for 25sec after seigan wearing off early, not to mention the x2 time recast on utsu ni because seigan is up

[Zosi]

When we don't have enough MNKs, we use PLD/NINs and just have the other DDs (BLMs, RNGs, etc) push harder. Have to schedule a bit more time for the boss, though. However, you only really NEED 1-2 MNKs to MNK tank it, so it's not like you need a legion... does your LS really have that few?

[Zilong]

THF gives too much TP for too little damage, and would need to be meleeing in a fair amount of evasion gear in order to evade. And that would kill damage, and they'd hold hate worse. I think it's a bad choice.

Barring Armored Chariot, boss chariots have capped ACC anyway.

As in they'd fucking hit you through flash while under the effect of kurayami ni.

WAR/NIN is a workable tank, but IMO they're a subtank at best, since they really lack the perks NIN or MNK have for tanking. NIN have a 4th shadow for Ni, subtle blow, and pretty good parry rate once you're past the 230s mark. MNK has counter and subtle blow. Chariots are one of those few mobs where subtle blow actually matters.

[aurik]

my parse records r at 19xxx for my NIN
20xxx for my co tank MNK
BLM and THF other 10k

and no the MNK dont suck at all, she got the best gear ever for MNK if u ask me

well if ur talking abt a evasion NIN tank, then yeah, they suck

Holy shit, it's not a race, take more than 10 seconds to write your post and stop using retarded, unnecessary abbreviations.

[Vejitta]

I did tank LBC once as WAR/NIN and with 2x Axes it wasn't that bad, I was able to get hate from our crazy kikoku NIN. With double marches and haste shadows aren't really an issue, I got hit like 2, up to 4 times whole the fight (excluding TP moves that is). Very, VERY important is to gear up with meds from the chests that random pop during run - I got Body Boost, Champion's, Monarch's, and Fighter's. With Monarch during my 2h I was able to do 4 Rampages and add another two 2h kinda Rampages with Champion's drink on. Body boost saved my but for once. Nevertheless - the only problem was TP spamage, we dmg rush it, I was forbid to use Ridill but still, TP moves frequency was crazy.

NIN/WAR is the best option there imo. MNK is a bit problematic, since once he loose hate it's pretty hard to get it w/o any hate spike move (like voke).

[Zilong]

NIN/WAR is the best option there imo. MNK is a bit problematic, since once he loose hate it's pretty hard to get it w/o any hate spike move (like voke).

This is only an issue for like 2 of the chariot though (LAC and LBC)

Hate recovery after a jack on LAC can be done with like...2-3 attack round if you dont have voke, and LBC's homing can be prevented, so really MNK is as good of a tank as NIN, if not even better.

[divisortheory]

Anybody who can hold hate can tank. Just have most of your damage coming from BLM if it's an issue.