Alternative Tanks for Chariots

[Sci]

Thank you for the feedback! I was, however, hoping for a place outside of Salvage to check tanking ability so we woulnd't have to waste event time/xp testing it. Also, does anyone have any more opinions on SAM? So far they all seem to say "I have no clue," and we have several SAM, so it would be nice to use them.

Also, minimal means 0-1 per run.

Well that chariot is pretty easy to get to and drops nice 35 pieces so it's not exactly a waste. : P

But if you have to fight something outside of Salvage hmm. Best I could think of would be Draugar Servant in Arrapago Reef. The DRGs not the DRKs. Pretty sure they double attack, and most of their TP moves (3 out of 4) clear shadows. Make sure it's being given lots of TP, and don't let the tank wear any kind of +eva gear. In fact, the more -eva gear the better for the test. This would pretty well simulate tanking a chariot at least from a damage avoiding standpoint.

As far as actually doing damage and holding hate, that's not going to be accurate at all and you'd need to actually try it on the real thing. I know SAM/THF does pretty good dmg, and it's pretty easy to SATA+WS the chariots even on a tank with hate, because they can go around to the back.

But the only two chariots that really require any sort of tanks at all are Zhayolm and Arrapago. At least I haven't tried kiting those two yet. But Bhaflau and Silver Seas are easily killed by using BLMs and RNGs.

[Ryushii]

I don't understand how the fact that a SAM/NIN would have to spam utsusemi would gimp its damage to WAR/NIN/MNKs that have the same situation.

The point of using Seigan is that you cancel it before an Utsusemi cast, so the recast is the same.

My group also has minimal (go figure) BLMs and RNGs. The only things we have alot of are DDs and RDMs and WHMs. And yeah, my LS has like no MNKs.

We have an extra voke to sustain hate after HM (usually a PLD/NIN flashing/curing), while the tanks pound on it until they take hate off him.

We have fewer BLM than NIN or MNKs...

Yeah, the problem would be that unless we make sure that we have a second tank with us who is really good, trusting in someone to tank the 5F Arra Chariot who may not even be a good tank could get us killed and kinda waste the run.

Thanks for your feedback! Keep it coming!

[Wizerd]

Weaken Bhaflau boss and you can use any number of tanks on it. Stack a few SAM/WAR if you so wish.

I spent just about all of my last battle "blood-tanking" LBC because I refused to cast Utsusemi during Hundred Fists x2 and every time I recast below 50% after the HF were over it'd do a TP move. I eventually gave up, and with 2 WHM, 2 RDM, and a Storm Fife BRD, MP isn't going to be too much of a problem if it dies in under 6 minutes.

Won't work quite as well on the others due to their various moves though.

[Berdysh]

I'm main tank for my Salvage group, I prefer to use WAR over my NIN. Much better damage inside Salvage and why would you have any problems keeping shadows up with double Marches and enfeebles? I use a typical Axe/Axe DD build, Man/Jug, 17% haste (Amir boots over Dusk), Ares's cuirass, Carbonara for food, and I sit at like 525 attack and 1,610 HP. My ACC is fine, I have Provoke, Warcry, Berserk/Aggressor/Warrior's Charge/Mighty Strikes...

Ni is almost always up on the chariots, and just cast ichi when Discharge or the Bind AOE fires and you really only get smacked when the Chariot double or triple attacks (when a MNK or NIN would too, anyway).

[Mojo]

I would agree that WAR could potentially be as good or better than NIN for DD tanking. You don't really rely on evasion, and 1 shadow isn't that critical. It might even be worth the trade off for the higher HP, which I think makes it much easier for your mages. A useful 2 hour is nice too if you plan on zerging the last 25%.

[Wizerd]

I'm main tank for my Salvage group, I prefer to use WAR over my NIN. Much better damage inside Salvage and why would you have any problems keeping shadows up with double Marches and enfeebles? I use a typical Axe/Axe DD build, Man/Jug, 17% haste (Amir boots over Dusk), Ares's cuirass, Carbonara for food, and I sit at like 525 attack and 1,610 HP. My ACC is fine, I have Provoke, Warcry, Berserk/Aggressor/Warrior's Charge/Mighty Strikes...

Ni is almost always up on the chariots, and just cast ichi when Discharge or the Bind AOE fires and you really only get smacked when the Chariot double or triple attacks (when a MNK or NIN would too, anyway).

I much prefer Minuet+Madrigal, ever since I first had our BRD cast that instead of double march. Swinging for 50-70 per hit instead of 30-50 makes a huge difference in the speed of the battle. Haste only combined with my MNK or even NIN gear usually comes close to capping out recast anyway, and keeping hate is so much easier this way.

[donnie]

we are using 1MNK/NIN and 1WAR/NIN for DD tanking and it works fine , just make sure ur war/nin knows how to tank and u will be ok.

[TB]

It all depends on your setup and what suits your group the best. For our group we never double tank (unless its a weakened LBC), due to mostly only having 1 WHM and 1 RDM. But we do have 2 BRD, so the tank always gets 2x Minuet, March and Madrigal. Combined with meat you can push out somer serious Asuran Fists, Blade: Jin's or Rampages.

We also try to switch the tanks around so it is not the same person tanking all the time.

[RKenshin]

[SAM is possible I suppose. Being able to alternate Utsusemi and Seigan/Third Eye would give a decent amount of damage mitigation. But I don't think many SAMs have much experience tanking like that.

I've personally done a good deal of Chariot tanking on SAM and it's all been while /WAR. I don't really think /NIN is worth it on SAM, and especially on chariots. Third Eye isn't cleared off by most of the AoE, unlike shadows, so you don't have to spend over half the fight recasting them over and over as they're cleared/taken. But really I'd even go as far to say that on rougher fights, Seigan+Third Eye will reduce damage taken just as much (if not more) as having Utsesumi. Having tanked chariots on MNK/NIN and SAM/WAR (and a little as RNG/NIN, although spent most time kiting), I feel I can accurately say that for the most part it's true in quite a few situations (excluding solo tanking or other situations where TP use is seldom).

Then it's also helpful to have a Provoke for spike hate if needed. But, also definitely need damage reduction gear IMO. Although I bring it on all my jobs, I'd say SAM especially just to have equipable if you get an unlucky round of Third Eye. Combinding both of those with Defender when needed, you really don't take much damage. I probably wouldn't recommend it over a MNK/NIN option, which is why I usually go MNK/NIN for Chariots, but it can definitely work.

Also it's important to make sure the SAM has experience with timing Third Eye to get the most out of each use, and just tanking in general.

[quote:65892]Thank you for the feedback! I was, however, hoping for a place outside of Salvage to check tanking ability so we woulnd't have to waste event time/xp testing it. Also, does anyone have any more opinions on SAM? So far they all seem to say "I have no clue," and we have several SAM, so it would be nice to use them.

Sam arent good imo. /nin isnt an option with seigan, and they won't pull hate easily[/quote:65892]

/NIN is still an option, but as I said above it's not needed IMO. However, a well-equiped + meritted SAM would pull hate. Especially with other tanks taking the unavoidable heavy hits every so often.

[Kirschy]

When my LS did BCC before the chest update, I ended up tanking a good portion of it on DRK/SAM. It wasn't amazing, but I found it worked a lot better than I thought it would. I had no problems keeping hate, it wasn't an issue at all.

[RKenshin]

Oh yeah, and likewise all the stuff I said about SAM tanking should apply all the same for /SAM tanking.

[Amele]

Also it's important to make sure the SAM has experience with timing Third Eye to get the most out of each use, and just tanking in general.

I've seen comments like this here and there and it's got me starting to wonder if maybe there's something in particular I'm not understanding about it; (is there a downside to reusing third eye every time the timer is up if you already have hate?) or do you mean more the timing of when to fire it up initially, and not once you've been tanking for some time?

[Sci]

Bit of a bump, but relevant to re-look at with the patch. I think SAM/NIN and WAR/NIN using Carbonara can really shine now. Especially SAM/NIN with 3 Overwhelm merits. And SAM could get away with wearing Arhat's Gi+1 for some decent damage reduction and still have more offensive power than they did pre-patch using a Haub+1.

A side note to think about is giving priority to 2H users on STR and DEX stat unlocks now. I'm just rethinking my group's strategies of throwing MNKs at everything.

[aurik]

Bit of a bump, but relevant to re-look at with the patch. I think SAM/NIN and WAR/NIN using Carbonara can really shine now. Especially SAM/NIN with 3 Overwhelm merits. And SAM could get away with wearing Arhat's Gi+1 for some decent damage reduction and still have more offensive power than they did pre-patch using a Haub+1.

A side note to think about is giving priority to 2H users on STR and DEX stat unlocks now. I'm just rethinking my group's strategies of throwing MNKs at everything.

Pretty sure sam/nin will be the best chariot tank now. 1h users are not nerfed on bosses by any means.