Abortion Penalty

[Mufferino]

Oh I understand and agree, I think the mother should be the deciding factor. If she is willing to give her life for her child thats perfectly fine. Like I said before a woman's body is her own choice

[Charla]

Oh jesus this can't end well lol

It already didn't start well.

As for a genetic definition of "human individual": would a given genetically distinct cell need 46 chromosomes to qualify as a human individual, or would 45 be enough? How about 47? And what about the 3 other genetically distinct egg cells that the viable egg cell consumed before it was fertilized? And don't even mention the thousands and thousands of genetically distinct cells that ended up in my trash several times last week. In several species, both the haploid and diploid generations are distinct multicellular individuals in their own right. Who's to say that my gametes don't have a right to live too? It's not like they tried to kill me, or rob me, or threaten me, etc. I don't recall having any arguments with my gametes. They simply died because there were too many of them and they couldn't all fit.

If anyone was looking for an actual argument here: I would rather not live if I would have a bad life. That's all the justification I need for my position.

edit: 12 posts while I was typing, now that's what I call a fast thread!

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Another question to ask yourself: Why is killing somebody wrong?
For me I have definite reasons why it is very very wrong in most cases but it being wrong is something most people take for granted with examining WHY.

[Mufferino]

Next on our list of things to discuss, Politics and death penalty! Or something that really means a lot to people our age. Who can sing the whole Saved by the bell theme song without cheating!

And anyone who can't should be killed! Oh noes more murder ; ;

[Ddz]

Another question to ask yourself: Why is killing somebody wrong?

My reasoning for this is because most likely, when someone is alive, they have people who like them a lot. If you take that away from them, people get mad. That's why it's wrong. Mad = bad. Plain and simple!

[Devek]

to prevent 5 months of looking a little fat

This made me laugh. It is a lot more than that. It is extreme exhaustion and possibly sickness (puking every day), food aversions and cravings and that is just the first 12-15 weeks before you get baby fat! It is having to pee every 15 minutes, it is stretch marks, and never having your body the same again. Unless you are a woman and have been pregnant you cannot begin to understand what it feels like to be pregnant or give birth.

Than don't have sex, it is that simple. If you can't handle the consequences of your actions than grow up. You have no reason to complain about pregnancy since it is just part of having sex. If the sex isn't good enough to make up for a little exhaustion and throwing up stop having sex immediately.

And all of that same potential is wasted by not copulating with every woman I meet. The difference you seem to be making is whether the person is perceived as alive.

So here's a simple question: How do we define 'alive'?


It may seem like I'm arguing semantics but I'm not. I'm trying to see if you have the answer to one of the great unanswered questions: what is a life?

Menstral cycles are ok even though they are flushing out a human egg.
Male ejaculations are ok even though they are killing thousands of human sperm.

However, if those two cells simply combine, you are instantly filthy murdererous scum. AMIRITE?

Germ cells such as sperm and embryos do not have "human" dna but when they combine they do. When you jizz on your pillow you are simply putting your own genetic material all over the pillow. When a woman menstruates she is flushing out her own genetic material onto a tampad/tampon/the seat of my car(memories of prom!).

When the cells combine they create a unique living organism that is no longer anyone else but a unique person. It is that simple.

Another question to ask yourself: Why is killing somebody wrong?
For me I have definite reasons why it is very very wrong in most cases but it being wrong is something most people take for granted with examining WHY.

Because we have a right to life. When you kill someone you are taking something important to them, their very existence.

[Creeps]

the only good baby is a dead baby, maybe with a side of fries and some BBQ sauce.

[Koyuki]

Divisotheory just needs to stop making these stupid fucking threads.

[Khamsin]

The whole genetics of a human argument is a bit retarded. Obviously there is something that precisely defines a human, or else we wouldn't have dogs, owls, whales, humans, mushrooms, ivy, e.coli, etc. and everyone would be considering all life to be the same thing because they'd be too busy arguing about what defines a dog, or an owl, or a whale, or a human, or a mushroom, or ivy, or e.coli, etc.

If the intended question is really "at what point is a sperm and an egg considered a human", then focus on that, not the genetic structure of humans.

[Melena]

abortion should not be used as birth control (i've unfortunately known quite a few girls who have honestly had 2x-3x the amount of abortions compared to children they popped out), but I'm also a firm believer in a woman's right to choose and what happens between a woman and there doctor should remain that way. between them only.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Because we have a right to life. When you kill someone you are taking something important to them, their very existence.

Why do we have a right to such a thing? How does a human get that right? Why can you lose that right (I'm assuming you're fine with killing Hitler)? What makes humans deserve such a right and not animals?

PS I'm not making arguements, I'm just trying to get you to delve deeper into your own moral grounds and clarify for yourself.

[Weltall]

Devek, the entire point is some of us believe it's not alive yet (thus it isn't murder). It's not murder if it is not alive. If you consider the DNA strand alive, then don't jackoff like I've already said.

[Intense]

Devek, the entire point is some of us believe it's not alive yet (thus it isn't murder). It's not murder if it is not alive. If you consider the DNA strand alive, then don't jackoff like I've already said.

Ironic you said this, bc if said male had jacked off instead of had vagnial intercourse, they wouldnt need to abort.

[divisortheory]

We can determine if something is human through genetic testing.

What would a genetic test have to show in order for it to be deemed a human? A single strand of DNA isn't a human is it?

If that single strand of DNA belongs to something alive, and that DNA is human the living being is also human. It has its own unique DNA unlike anyone else in the entire world.

Circular definition for the lose. Define what it means to be alive. Again, I assert that a brain must exist.

[Weltall]

I agree with Divis.

[Weltall]

"Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:52 pm"

I've been around longer than most of you, so I am right damnit ! Lock the thread pro-choice wins!

[Ddz]

Yeah, while it may not be the most ideal, I feel like pro-choice is the most correct concept.

[Weltall]

If someone really doesn't want to have the kid, he or she has plenty of ways to do it at home. Let them do it at a facility.

[Demosthenes11]

Because we have a right to life. When you kill someone you are taking something important to them, their very existence.

Why do we have a right to such a thing? How does a human get that right? Why can you lose that right (I'm assuming you're fine with killing Hitler)? What makes humans deserve such a right and not animals?

PS I'm not making arguements, I'm just trying to get you to delve deeper into your own moral grounds and clarify for yourself.

are you really as stupid as you are fronting here? jesus christ lol

[Khamsin]

Because we have a right to life. When you kill someone you are taking something important to them, their very existence.

Why do we have a right to such a thing? How does a human get that right? Why can you lose that right (I'm assuming you're fine with killing Hitler)? What makes humans deserve such a right and not animals?

PS I'm not making arguements, I'm just trying to get you to delve deeper into your own moral grounds and clarify for yourself.

As another sidenote, since this was to someone else, I'm personally of the belief that there are no universal rights or laws other than what we impose upon ourselves, and ultimately, the nature of our actions are self-serving on some level or another. And by self-serving, I mean not only our physical selves, but can include the survival of our genetic material, and ultimately, our species.

When we want to kill Hitler, we do so out of fear to protect ourselves, and to protect our species (the other humans Hilter was killing). Meanwhile, Hitler was protecting his genetic material in another way. The laws we impose on ourselves are a defense mechanism. If we can kill Hitler, why can't Hitler kill us? This is the basis of the so-called universal or moral laws.

On another level, why do we follow government laws? Because if we don't, bad things happen to us. If they didn't, we wouldn't be inclined to follow them. Some laws we don't need the government to tell us to follow, namely the ones that correspond to our ideas of those "natural" laws. Others we've been conditioned to follow, but if the threat of what happens when we break those laws weren't there, we'd be acting differently.

Why does the government impose laws? What purpose does control serve? While some may just want power, that desire for power still serves the same purpose as anything else... to protect oneself and their genetic material in their own way. But on a more basic level, order is better for us than chaos. People would rather threaten everyone (including themselves) not to steal or murder in order to feel safer than they would be otherwise.

In short, as a society we aim to save ourselves (meaning the society), and to achieve this, we threaten people (laws).