Abortion Penalty

[Maguspk]

Great, I come back and read posts and it's turned into a religious debate now.

And no, I'm not trying to argue that there shouldn't be laws. I'm just trying to pull apart a hypocrisy. In my opinion, you can't have a legal system without a moral system, and a group of people wouldn't agree to a specific set of rules unless they shared similar moral ideals.

Why must shared moral ideals be the basis for law?

If I feel that I don't want to die, and you feel that killing is wrong, and we both enter into an agreement not to kill each other, then morality had nothing to do with my acceptance of the law.

The only problem I have is when people act like their moral system IS their legal system, whereas, if they were the same thing, they wouldn't be defined as moral and legal, would they?

Nobody does this. But everybody does look into their moral system when the legal system treads that territory. It's ignorant to say the two are totally separate, just as it's equally ignorant to think they're one in the same.

[Fuuko]

Abortion is simply a murder of convenience, nothing more. You don't want the responsibility of dealing with your actions, so you kill it. Note, I am not referring to health of the mother, or rape here.

One guy says its ok because the has to be a brain or its not human, another it has to have the ability to make a choice. Pro-abortionists all have their own little "reason" that its ok

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception. Before it is nothing but potential. After what ever arbitrary requirements you use to assuage your conscience, is nothing but a matter of time.

[divisortheory]

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception.

Proof please.

After what ever arbitrary requirements you use to assuage your conscience, is nothing but a matter of time.

Funny, a second ago you said that at conception the fertilized egg is already a human. Now you're saying it's "only a matter of time before it's a human". Which is it?

[Maguspk]

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception.

Proof please.

What proof do you have it's otherwise?

The fact of the matter is, you can't define when something is a human, ding, we get it.

But you can't sit on your soap box and say oh "it's when it has a brain", that's equally ignorant.

[divisortheory]

But you can't sit on your soap box and say oh "it's when it has a brain", that's equally ignorant.

At least you admit that asserting that "life begins at conception" is ignorant. Now we're getting somewhere.

[aurik]

I think an abortion should require signed consent from the father and if the father could not be located the woman would have to sign an affidavit that he is unavailable and a genetic sample of the child should be stored. If it could be proven later that the father was left in the dark and unaware of the abortion on purpose the woman should face prison. You could even add some sort of proactive way for a man to register his DNA with a service to be tested against any pending abortions to prevent one from happening without his consent.

When men are the ones faced with the task of living for 9 months with a de-facto parasite, they can have veto power over the process.

Are you implying that the only line between life and death for a potential newborn is whether the mother wants to put up with 9 months of inconvenience?

Way to load my words with meaning they didn't have.

[Maguspk]

But you can't sit on your soap box and say oh "it's when it has a brain", that's equally ignorant.

At least you admit that asserting that "life begins at conception" is ignorant. Now we're getting somewhere.

I never said otherwise, stop acting as if you're on some righteous crusade to convince everyone with pro-life views is wrong.

Also, don't group me with whatever some other pro-life person says just because I said: 'I think it's wrong to end a potential life, no matter how illogical it may seem to me.'

Given a true choice I don't know what I'd do and as such I don't think I can truly say whether I'm on one side of the fence or the other.

[divisortheory]

I never said otherwise, stop thinking you're on some righteous crusade to convince everyone pro-life views are wrong.

I'm not on a crusade, crusades are for murderers (e.g. Christians).

[Xavier]

Abortion is simply a murder of convenience, nothing more. You don't want the responsibility of dealing with your actions, so you kill it. Note, I am not referring to health of the mother, or rape here.

One guy says its ok because the has to be a brain or its not human, another it has to have the ability to make a choice. Pro-abortionists all have their own little "reason" that its ok

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception. Before it is nothing but potential. After what ever arbitrary requirements you use to assuage your conscience, is nothing but a matter of time.

Did you just justify abortions while condemning abortion?

You can't acknowledge the health of a mother, or rape, and then exclude them from the conversation and wave a finger at people who get abortions as selfish.

[Gafgarionn]

I think an abortion should require signed consent from the father and if the father could not be located the woman would have to sign an affidavit that he is unavailable and a genetic sample of the child should be stored. If it could be proven later that the father was left in the dark and unaware of the abortion on purpose the woman should face prison. You could even add some sort of proactive way for a man to register his DNA with a service to be tested against any pending abortions to prevent one from happening without his consent.

When men are the ones faced with the task of living for 9 months with a de-facto parasite, they can have veto power over the process.

Are you implying that the only line between life and death for a potential newborn is whether the mother wants to put up with 9 months of inconvenience?

Way to load my words with meaning they didn't have.

Don't be so defensive, I was genuinely asking you if that's what you meant.

[Maguspk]

I never said otherwise, stop thinking you're on some righteous crusade to convince everyone pro-life views are wrong.

I'm not on a crusade, crusades are for murderers (e.g. Christians).

It was starting to leave religious territory and you drop that charm lol...

I thought about changing the crusade wording I chose there but I assumed you wouldn't take that shot.

[divisortheory]

Sorry, was trying to ligthen the mood with a laugh!

[Gafgarionn]

Sorry, was trying to ligthen the mood with a laugh!

Almost made me punch a hole through my wall.

[Rocl]

Holy Yin these threads grow fast

[Gafgarionn]

Holy Yin these threads grow fast

ROFL nice edit (yes, I'm spamming f5).

[Maguspk]

Oh ya I saw someone saying earlier that Safe Sex is safer than Abstinence. Or maybe it was Abstinence doesn't work or something equally wrong.

Always clarify you are referring to education and the results of it because in actuality abstinence will always be safer than "Safe Sex" practices.

[Fuuko]

Abortion is simply a murder of convenience, nothing more. You don't want the responsibility of dealing with your actions, so you kill it. Note, I am not referring to health of the mother, or rape here.

One guy says its ok because the has to be a brain or its not human, another it has to have the ability to make a choice. Pro-abortionists all have their own little "reason" that its ok

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception. Before it is nothing but potential. After what ever arbitrary requirements you use to assuage your conscience, is nothing but a matter of time.

Did you just justify abortions while condemning abortion?

You can't acknowledge the health of a mother, or rape, and then exclude them from the conversation and wave a finger at people who get abortions as selfish.

..................Yea you can, they are all different events, with different reasons for the act. Your logic is like arguing that self-defense and cold blooded murder are the same thing. Rape and sex are the same thing! Seriously grow up.

[aurik]

I think an abortion should require signed consent from the father and if the father could not be located the woman would have to sign an affidavit that he is unavailable and a genetic sample of the child should be stored. If it could be proven later that the father was left in the dark and unaware of the abortion on purpose the woman should face prison. You could even add some sort of proactive way for a man to register his DNA with a service to be tested against any pending abortions to prevent one from happening without his consent.

When men are the ones faced with the task of living for 9 months with a de-facto parasite, they can have veto power over the process.

Are you implying that the only line between life and death for a potential newborn is whether the mother wants to put up with 9 months of inconvenience?

Way to load my words with meaning they didn't have.

Don't be so defensive, I was genuinely asking you if that's what you meant.

Next time read what was written.

[Maguspk]

Abortion is simply a murder of convenience, nothing more. You don't want the responsibility of dealing with your actions, so you kill it. Note, I am not referring to health of the mother, or rape here.

One guy says its ok because the has to be a brain or its not human, another it has to have the ability to make a choice. Pro-abortionists all have their own little "reason" that its ok

The simple fact is the only single time in the human development you go from being a potential human to a human, is conception. Before it is nothing but potential. After what ever arbitrary requirements you use to assuage your conscience, is nothing but a matter of time.

Did you just justify abortions while condemning abortion?

You can't acknowledge the health of a mother, or rape, and then exclude them from the conversation and wave a finger at people who get abortions as selfish.

..................Yea you can, they are all different events, with different reasons for the act. Your logic is like arguing that self-defense and cold blooded murder are the same thing. Rape and sex are the same thing! Seriously grow up.

I think he was attempting to argue with you under the pretext that you are saying abortions should be illegal, which you never said. I think you were simply referring to an isolated case wherein both participants are just plain irresponsible and are looking to take an easy way out of their situation.

[Devek]

I'm undecided about the whole rape issue, but I don't think anyone thinks it is the same thing or would paint rape victims with the same brush that your typical white trash slut gets.