PLD in exp/merit PT

[LastHope]

Just a few questions about using PLD in exp/merits. I am currently a 64 PLD.

1. Is Shield Torque worth it anymore in exp 65-75 (over Parade Gorget or PCC)? Even when I'm /WAR, I still tend to stay in white or high yellow HP. Is the only use for this item now PLD/WAR HNM tanking and PLD/NIN Utsu: Ichi macros (and oh sh*t macros)?

2. I know PLD/WAR probably isn't the best idea in ToAU areas 70+, as a properly geared PLD/NIN will probably bring more to the party with Rampage WARs, Asuran MNKs and Sidewinder RNGs that PLD/WAR prob can't hold hate off anyway. Is going PLD/NIN DD gear with Company/Joyeuse viable at 70? Or should I wait til 73 for Dusk and Justice/Joyeuse combo?

3. How much better is Justice/Joyeuse (if at all) better than Company/Justice at 73-75/merits?

4. Just an "out there" question, but what are your thoughts on merited 8/8 Sword, 8/8 Club, Meat-Eating Company/KC PLD/NIN at 75? What kind of gear setup would be needed to pull this off, and would it outparse Justice/Joyeuse or Company/Justice? (Mainly thinking Colibris/Trolls since Mamool and Imps/Flies would just spam TP moves and it would be counter-productive).

5. HQ Haub > Homam Corazza > HQ Byrnie > NQ Haub > Byrnie for TP? (for WS Haub for sure).

6. For 66-70/73, Herc/Jelly, Herc/BQ, or Herc/Mermaid?

[Yutuyu]

1) I'd say use shield torque as long as you sub war, just swap it out for WS.

2) /war Joyuese will outdamage Company/Joyeuse because you attack *so much* faster. Even more so on pierce stuff such a Colibri, Puks, Caedarva Mire, etc.

3) Justice/Joy is amazing, much better than joy.

As far as combos go Justice Joy > Joy/Sentinel's Shield > Company/Joy

4) I really doubt company/kraken would outparse justice/joy.

5) I have a Corazza, but I actually think Haub is better for TP. Less accuracy, but that attack & STR will help your DoT while building TP. I mean the question of haub vs. corazza is basically...

Triple Attack 5 ACC vs. 5 STR 5 DEX 10 ATK. The triple attack proc rate is really low, like 2.5%. It's not really worth it.

6) None of the above. First of all, using an HP ring in XP is a bad idea, especially on Erucas. That incinerate damage is nasty.

Second, enmity is kind of useless. You won't have trouble holding hate with a DD-Tank hybrid setup. Why hold hate with a stat, when you can hold hate equally with DD rings and contribute to party damage.

[Cephius]

1) I always used either parade gorget, harmonia's, or PCC when leveling in XP parties. Shield torque doesn't make much of a difference while leveling IMO, its nice at 75 when stacked with other gear to up the chances that your shield will proc.

2) I went PLD/WAR right up until 71. Imps (assuming thats what everyone levels on until 71, like me) die quick, and you're going to want that initial voke hate to keep hate off the melees. Chances are it won't turn until its about to die anyway. PLD/NIN doesn't have access to homan or justice sword at that level. The thing about PLD/NIN pre-meleeburn is that you won't be holding hate and you won't be doing much damage either, so any smart party will wonder why they didn't just get another melee.

3) Justice/Joy is IMO the best sword combination for PLD/NIN. You will hit 4x very often, which makes giving up the high base damage from company sword worth it. Your WS damage will be pretty low - with decent gear I did around 300-500 with the occasional 700+ - but your dot will be high enough to keep pace and not be a liability on the party.

4) You'd be able to spam vorpal blade, but also be prepared to eat a ton of pecking flurries. As for if it would outdamage joy/justice... I don't know. You so rarely see people using a kraken in XP even if they own one, I imagine there's a good reason for that. Probably the damage increase isn't worth the amount of TP given, even to birds.

5) Sounds about right

6) As soon as they became available, I used BQ/herc (except on those damn mt Z crawlers) on everything unless I was meleeburning, in which case I used acc rings.

[Allundaria]

While Company/Joy combos look like they should be awesome, the fact that company drops back to base D during WS really hurts your Vorpals and subsequently your overall dot. Until 74 and the availability of Utsu Ni I'd stick with joy and shield /WAR.

[Ferien]

1. Keep it around. Shield Torque is still extremely good, especially if you have the accuracy in other places.

2. Stay /WAR until 74 or 75. Your job until merit parties is to hold hate, and you can still do that job well up until you start playing with fully-merited melee. Also, Joyeuse/Shield is probably the second-best DD option for us anyway, so there's really no reason not to at that point.

3. If you have Justice, use it. J/J is much better than Comp/Joy, due to the massive TP and DoT gain. Sure, your WSes will be weaker, but who cares when you're spamming them at the same rate as a Ridill WAR?

4. Don't use Kraken Club in xp. On any job. As for how Comp/KC would fare against J/J, it's probably about even, given our A- in club, but it's really, REALLY not worth the TP spam. Do you really want constant Diamondhide/Rock Smash/Pecking Flurry/Snatch Morsel/Feather Tickle/Fire Spit/Rushing Drub/Rushing Stab/etcetcetc?

5. I'd rank them Haub+1 > Haub >= Homam > Assault Jerkin > Byrnie+1 > Byrnie. Yes, Assault Jerkin.

6. Don't wear BQ in XP, you don't need the HP (you may if you're Taru, but I'd defer that to someone besides myself). Either 2x Woodsman or Woodsman+Herc, they'd probably be about even hate-wise.

[riddaraan]

Honestly, in merit PT's, I'd prefer a PCC/Chivalrous/Fortitude over Parade Gorget, simply because as long as you have a RDM, with Refresh Sanction, you'll never need MP. I'm an Elvaan, so I think I'd run out of MP a lot. But really I don't. Ethereal might help with that a lot, but I really find that unless some idiot has subbed WAR for the PT (ie, MNK/WAR), then I don't have to worry about much more MP than Flash, and that recoups really fast.

But until you switch to /NIN, you may want to alternately use Shield Torque during your "TP" phase, and then WS in your neck of choice, be it PCC, Chivalrous Chain, Soil Gorget, or Fortitude Torque.

Whatever you have works.


...PS...
I TP in Homam Corazza... I will sacrafice higher parse positioning for being a damn sexy Red Paladin. 8)

[Talis]

Joy/Justice > Justice/Joy. I did some fairly exaustive testing that showed Jailer weapons DA don't proc on WS (while brutal and subjob DA can).