Mnk h2h question

[sleekmotorwurkz]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing
2. Till I get destroyers would I be better off keeping my cross counters? They do much higher damage on WS, but faith (to me at least) seems like the extra damage is negated by the virtual hundred fist that faith provides.

[Credos]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing
2. Till I get destroyers would I be better off keeping my cross counters? They do much higher damage on WS, but faith (to me at least) seems like the extra damage is negated by the virtual hundred fist that faith provides.

1: Well Asuran is 8 hits so technically DA cannot proc if you land all 8 hits; but the odds of hitting all 8 hits on Asuran are somewhat slim at 73 I'd imagine.

2: Sounds to me a lot like the Soboro / Hagun argument. I don't have any parsed information about Faith vs. CC, but I'm sure that there are a couple posters here that could tell you.

[Cephius]

If you don't have destroyers, you should be using Wagh Bagnakahgs or however you spell it. Faith may attack fast, but its damage is absurdly low compared to Waghs, and they give you the accuracy and attack bonuses. Normally you want higher dot over higher damage, but in this case I'd go for higher damage. Monk already has the highest natural dot in the game, so going with more damage seems the way to go. Not to mention that Faiths are reliant on virtue stones, and in any merit party you're going to go through those like water. If you get a good party and run out, it sucks.

[Amele]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing

1: Well Asuran is 8 hits so technically DA cannot proc if you land all 8 hits; but the odds of hitting all 8 hits on Asuran are somewhat slim at 73 I'd imagine.

DA can't proc anyway - it's an 8 swing limit per attack round, not an 8 hit limit.

[Max™]

You only get 1 piece for Acc at 75 over 73, Haidate, and Shura Legs are more or less the same, Noritsune at 74 I guess.

I'd keep punchin away with my CC's as long as possible, just because I don't like the Wagh model.

[Arachna]

Better to use Waghs IMO, unless you have a shitload of virtue stones to allow you to make full use of your Faith Baghs in a merit party.

Also you're a lot better off keeping on Tiphia Sting and any acc/atk gear over STR and VIT for Asuran.

[Credos]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing

1: Well Asuran is 8 hits so technically DA cannot proc if you land all 8 hits; but the odds of hitting all 8 hits on Asuran are somewhat slim at 73 I'd imagine.

DA can't proc anyway - it's an 8 swing limit per attack round, not an 8 hit limit.

Good to know, I honestly didn't know that.

[skurlover]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing

1: Well Asuran is 8 hits so technically DA cannot proc if you land all 8 hits; but the odds of hitting all 8 hits on Asuran are somewhat slim at 73 I'd imagine.

DA can't proc anyway - it's an 8 swing limit per attack round, not an 8 hit limit.

Can I get an Aurik conformation on this?

[Blackice]

It's been confirmed.

[Amele]

So I just hit 73 mnk the other day and sadly no destroyers yet, still working on that -hopefully this weekend. So I have been using my faith bagknaks(sp?).
2 questions:
1. Can double attack activate during WS or should I swap to bibiki seashell ammo while WSing

1: Well Asuran is 8 hits so technically DA cannot proc if you land all 8 hits; but the odds of hitting all 8 hits on Asuran are somewhat slim at 73 I'd imagine.

DA can't proc anyway - it's an 8 swing limit per attack round, not an 8 hit limit.

Can I get an Aurik conformation on this?

go bug a friend with a ridill and a kclub to dual wield them, watch how when the kclub procs 8 they don't even swing the ridill.

it's really really easy to check.

[Max™]

Funny, always thought the Kclub would only proc 7 max and then the offhand would be stuck at 1.

[Julian]

Doesn't look like it's been mentioned, but virtue weapons don't proc on WS, so the asuran arguement is irrelevant.

[Zosi]

I tried Faiths briefly when I hit 73, and I have to say I don't think they're worth it at all until you're 75 and have H2H merits. More than any other weapon MNKs get, Faiths rely on having great accuracy, since the mechanism that makes them worth using is the rapid TP gain and WS spam. If you're whiffing a lot on both TP swings and Asuran, you're just wasting a lot of the potential damage. Use Waghs until you're 75 at least, and preferably until you get some H2H merits. If you don't have Destroyers by then, by all means bust out some Faith Baghnahks action and see how they work for you.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

I tried Faiths briefly when I hit 73, and I have to say I don't think they're worth it at all until you're 75 and have H2H merits. More than any other weapon MNKs get, Faiths rely on having great accuracy, since the mechanism that makes them worth using is the rapid TP gain and WS spam. If you're whiffing a lot on both TP swings and Asuran, you're just wasting a lot of the potential damage. Use Waghs until you're 75 at least, and preferably until you get some H2H merits. If you don't have Destroyers by then, by all means bust out some Faith Baghnahks action and see how they work for you.

I actually have maxed h2h merits already so my acc is just fine, also the virtue stone issue isnt a problem either, i can to go sea on thf and get a stack of 12 pouches in less then an hour so im not concerned about that.

My setup at the moment is this - I just left my hnm shell so not planning on shura togi, haidate, or kabuto anytime soon
Faith Baks/Cross Conters
Virtue Stones/Bibiki Seashell
Pal. Head
Chiv Chain
Minuet Earring/Spike Earring (just trying to get by till I can use my brutal)
Pal. Body
Bando. Kote
Sniper/Woodsman
Amemet+1
Brown Belt
Melee Hose
Dune Boots

For asuran I swap in (of course I swap temple gloves for the boost, then back to bando before ws)
Soil Gorget
Rajas Ring (I keep snipers on for a little extra acc)
Melee Gaiters (little extra dex)
Warwolf belt (sometimes, im usually counterstance tanking most of the fight anyway so the enmity doesnt bother me much)
I think thats it >.>

At 75 I plan on doing more of a haste setup
Turban, byakko haidate, fuma suneate, brutal earring

[Takeno]

Raise your hand if you used Spartan Cesti all the way until 75 and then proceeded to join a sky LS and get some Indra Katars. To then later get your destroyers because the BC was too damn hard to do before then.

[Cephius]

For asuran I swap in (of course I swap temple gloves for the boost, then back to bando before ws)
Soil Gorget
Rajas Ring (I keep snipers on for a little extra acc)
Melee Gaiters (little extra dex)
Warwolf belt (sometimes, im usually counterstance tanking most of the fight anyway so the enmity doesnt bother me much)
I think thats it >.>

Wow, I see a lot wrong there. First of all, Do you keep Rajas on or snipers? You should be keeping at least one sniper if not two unless you're consistenly hitting all 8 hits. Missing a hit in favor of the very minimal boost Rajas Ring gives you is not worth it.

Melee gaiters? Might as well do assaults for the pawluhan feet, use Hume RSE2 or Taru RSE2 if you're either of those races, or even shura feet are all better than Melee Gaiters for asuran.

Warwolf Belt? Losing the STR from Brown belt all for 5 VIT is again, not worth it.

Also, there was a post awhile ago that proved the sea gorgets only have an effect on the first hit of any weaponskill. Therefore, it is pretty worthless for something like asuran, since it only works on one of the eight hits. Peacock charm or ideally a faith torque seems to be the better option.

[Intense]

Raise your hand if you used Spartan Cesti all the way until 75 and then proceeded to join a sky LS and get some Indra Katars. To then later get your destroyers because the BC was too damn hard to do before then.

/

[Amele]

Also, there was a post awhile ago that proved the sea gorgets only have an effect on the first hit of any weaponskill.

wrong.

there was a test done by nagamaki awhile ago that suggested that there wasn't an accuracy improvement on every hit in a multi-hit weaponskill, but the results were within the margin of error - which is a fancy way of saying: "It needs more testing before I've proven anything".

what it does mean is - if there is a gap, it's small enough that you won't really be missing much if you use a pcc over a gorget.

conversely this also means the gap is small enough that you can't reliably say that a PCC is better than a gorget.

[Cephius]

Also, there was a post awhile ago that proved the sea gorgets only have an effect on the first hit of any weaponskill.

wrong.

there was a test done by nagamaki awhile ago that suggested that there wasn't an accuracy improvement on every hit in a multi-hit weaponskill, but the results were within the margin of error - which is a fancy way of saying: "It needs more testing before I've proven anything".

what it does mean is - if there is a gap, it's small enough that you won't really be missing much if you use a pcc over a gorget.

conversely this also means the gap is small enough that you can't reliably say that a PCC is better than a gorget.

Ah, I see. I didn't read the whole thread, but it seemed like people were convinced even though there needed to be more testing before it could be said with absolute certainty.

[Septimus]

Also, there was a post awhile ago that proved the sea gorgets only have an effect on the first hit of any weaponskill.

wrong.

there was a test done by nagamaki awhile ago that suggested that there wasn't an accuracy improvement on every hit in a multi-hit weaponskill, but the results were within the margin of error - which is a fancy way of saying: "It needs more testing before I've proven anything".

what it does mean is - if there is a gap, it's small enough that you won't really be missing much if you use a pcc over a gorget.

conversely this also means the gap is small enough that you can't reliably say that a PCC is better than a gorget.

My understanding of the situation is that while they are worth using for single-hit weaponskills, they certainly do not outperform chram for multi-hit weaponskills. I keep my Soil Gorget in my locker any more, I haven't noticed any loss in performance for Rampage since I started using chram full-time.