Warcraft raising level cap to 80 (FFXI related, I swear)

[Toth]

So on their next expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard is raising the level cap for WoW to 80. I dont play WoW but this interested me. The level cap for FFXI has remained 75 for 2 expansion (and most likely three). SE, for all its faults, knows how to make content work around this cap (well, ToA more than CoP) and keep everythings relatively fresh. Blizzard seems to think that adding 10 levels and negating all of their previously godlike armor (again) is a smart move, their idea of progression. SE has done the opposite. Which plan do you think is better in the long run?

[Ryko]

Not really related at all. Both sides have their downsides, one provides stagnation, another provides the feeling that all the time previously spent was a waste. Neither is perfect.

[Suiram]

I'm not really a fan of these topics (which are typically just derails of patch notes) since although you've presented it as a debate between two different and equally-viable paths a game can take when releasing new armor/stat bonuses, the most vocal people are going to be those who feel that so-called 'gear progression' (where new armor is consistently released that obsoletes all previous armor) is the only way for an MMORPG to operate and the FFXI fails in their implementation of it--rather than recognize that the designers clearly chose a different model. For my part I rather like the way FFXI is set up w/r/t new equipment, I just wish they'd add more inventory spaces to support it, rather than add a ton of situationally superior gear that you aren't actually able to ever bring with you because of PS2 limitations.

[Wizerd]

I agree with Suiram. I like how FFXI does it over how WoW does it, for sure, but SE needs to figure out how to give us more inventory spaces if they want us to be happy. At this point, 70 or 80 would work, because on average I don't think anyone needs to bring more than 3 items for any given slot (16 x3 = 48) to be the best they can be. Couple this with items that everyone should always have (Antidotes, Echo Drops for magic users, Silent Oils, Prism Powders, Food, etc), Ammo or Ninja Tools if applicable, or the extra strain of staves for mages, and you have a good 60-65 spaces being used. Everyone needs buffer space, for anything they do, because it's always a bummer to miss out on that Kindred's Seal, or it sucks when you have to choose something to toss (such as a stack of oils) in order to receive [xx] rare/ex item that you had no idea you were gonna get, but did anyway on a whim.

80 slots would make me happy.

[Baha]

Just removing the items you have equipped from bagspace would work too, and it would make a ton of sense. I'm wearing this republic subligar, why is it still in my bag eh?

[Everlasting]

Keep in mind FFXI has been through the same thing.

WoW will have to stop raising the level cap eventually, just like FFXI.

[Khamsin]

They could release new armor that obsoletes old armor for gear progression, then to prevent people feeling they previously wasted their time, they can require that you have the old armor to upgrade to the new armor that obsoletes it (with ingredients dropped from the new HNMs or something).

How's that?

[Damane]

They could release new armor that obsoletes old armor for gear progression, then to prevent people feeling they previously wasted their time, they can require that you have the old armor to upgrade to the new armor that obsoletes it (with ingredients dropped from the new HNMs or something).

How's that?

if the HNMs spawn under the same conditions as the 3 kings or the 3 ToAU counterparts I am gonna slap you. I am glad that I got most of my gear after watching 1.5 years of darters. just NO. however if the HNMs are poped by tradeing an item to them, or they are BC fights I am fine with it.

[theo]

I feel like raising the level cap has less to do with progression and more to do with keeping you stuck playing for a longer period of time. WoW raises the level cap because its a cheap and simple way to make you pay their fee a little while longer. This is the same reason why I groan at the idea of raising the merit cap, because I'd rather spend my time doing activities over grinding exp.

I do enjoy exping because it is a fundamental core aspect of the game, but there comes a point where enough is enough.

[Toth]

I agree Theo. Though Khamsin's idea really isn't that bad of any idea.

[Epincus]

In the context you describe it, FFXI's system is better if for no other reason than it keeps older content relevant whereas Blizzard has effectively ceased all use of level 60 dungeons. Having progression is acceptable, but the way they did it (level 62 greens showing up 60 epics) was poorly executed, add to that the fact that the next expansion basically seems to be history repeating, and it just doesn't look good.

WITH THAT IN MIND, I do think that WoW has hit on a potential gold mine with their heroic system. For those not in the know, Heroic Mode is where you activate it and your group enters a different version of the instance tuned to a much higher level. Blizzard has announced that they plan on adding this feature to older dungeons (Gnomeregan was mentioned specifically) which would immediately allow that content to be useful again in an endgame context.

Personally though, my beef with FFXI's system has always been a network of sidegrades and non-upgrades. Fafnir is still heavily camped every day, Behemoth as well on most servers. There's still no answer to Ridill and KClub (I don't count 72DRK), and FF just recently had a possible alternative to haidate and EBody (Which is purple) added to the game after how many years? I'd like to get some sense of progression that isn't measured by how many ridills Fafnir has dropped in the past month and how fast Kirin dies.

[Ryko]

There is no alternative to ebody, I don't care how many attack they dump on a bodypiece.

[Khamsin]

There is no alternative to ebody, I don't care how many attack they dump on a bodypiece.

What if SE added something with STR+20 DEX+20 Accuracy+30 Attack+30 that required you to have e.body first to get it?

[evilpaul]

Like a Brygid the Stylist Returns...Again?! quest or something? (With cool rewards this time I guess. )

[Doofus]

They could release new armor that obsoletes old armor for gear progression, then to prevent people feeling they previously wasted their time, they can require that you have the old armor to upgrade to the new armor that obsoletes it (with ingredients dropped from the new HNMs or something).

How's that?

Limbus?

[Max™]

There is no alternative to ebody, I don't care how much attack they dump on a bodypiece.

Abjuration uncursing dude (long ass dhalmelneck name):Ah, it's you again Rykoshet, I see you still have an Adaman Hauberk, why, my cousin Steve (weird name huh?) recently told me of a new type of armor he made using one of those, bring me X, Y, and Z, and a 10,000 Byne Bill, and he will produce it for you.

[Beckwin]

Uh, fuck turning in ground abj armor for new stuff.

[Ryko]

I meant to say how many attack points but yeah missed a word >_>

[Fornax]

I agree with Suiram. I like how FFXI does it over how WoW does it, for sure, but SE needs to figure out how to give us more inventory spaces if they want us to be happy. At this point, 70 or 80 would work, because on average I don't think anyone needs to bring more than 3 items for any given slot (16 x3 = 48) to be the best they can be. Couple this with items that everyone should always have (Antidotes, Echo Drops for magic users, Silent Oils, Prism Powders, Food, etc), Ammo or Ninja Tools if applicable, or the extra strain of staves for mages, and you have a good 60-65 spaces being used. Everyone needs buffer space, for anything they do, because it's always a bummer to miss out on that Kindred's Seal, or it sucks when you have to choose something to toss (such as a stack of oils) in order to receive [xx] rare/ex item that you had no idea you were gonna get, but did anyway on a whim.

80 slots would make me happy.

If it's truly not possible to increase inventory space within the PS2 restraints, item consolidation (adding the stats of several items to create a new item) would be an alternative. Let owners of all 8 elemental obis turn them in to receive a Rainbow Obi that works like a Sorcerer's Tonban. Let us merge an elemental, enhancing and dark torque into a merciful torque and an enfeebling, divine and healing torque into an altruistic torque, and analogously for the Lv 35 earrings. Those are all "non-synergistic" combinations; the merged item would perform for each spell exactly as the applicable ingredient item would have, so there would be no serious balance issues. This change could save magic users up to 11 inventory spaces.

[Khamsin]

I agree with Suiram. I like how FFXI does it over how WoW does it, for sure, but SE needs to figure out how to give us more inventory spaces if they want us to be happy. At this point, 70 or 80 would work, because on average I don't think anyone needs to bring more than 3 items for any given slot (16 x3 = 48) to be the best they can be. Couple this with items that everyone should always have (Antidotes, Echo Drops for magic users, Silent Oils, Prism Powders, Food, etc), Ammo or Ninja Tools if applicable, or the extra strain of staves for mages, and you have a good 60-65 spaces being used. Everyone needs buffer space, for anything they do, because it's always a bummer to miss out on that Kindred's Seal, or it sucks when you have to choose something to toss (such as a stack of oils) in order to receive [xx] rare/ex item that you had no idea you were gonna get, but did anyway on a whim.

80 slots would make me happy.

If it's truly not possible to increase inventory space within the PS2 restraints, item consolidation (adding the stats of several items to create a new item) would be an alternative. Let owners of all 8 elemental obis turn them in to receive a Rainbow Obi that works like a Sorcerer's Tonban. Let us merge an elemental, enhancing and dark torque into a merciful torque and an enfeebling, divine and healing torque into an altruistic torque, and analogously for the Lv 35 earrings. Those are all "non-synergistic" combinations; the merged item would perform for each spell exactly as the applicable ingredient item would have, so there would be no serious balance issues. This change could save magic users up to 11 inventory spaces.

The torque idea would be nice, but it'd probably be better to put elemental, enfeebling and dark on one torque, and put healing, enhancing, and divine on the other.