Warcraft raising level cap to 80 (FFXI related, I swear)

[Amele]

I just had to say, I have seen ONE Corselet, it was rather pretty, but yeah, I don't know why it existed.

it looks like a hybrid piece to me. But the system of situational pieces having exactly one downside (inventory -1 ) in this game means that hybrid pieces have almost no place at all.

of course, the other way around would make some stuff pretty useless (hecatomb set comes to mind) if you had significant penalties for swapping back and forth in a gear slot.

[Lordwafik]

ruke has corselet

[levish]

When BC came out, I went and played WoW for a while, and within 2 hours of entering the expansion, I had replaced 90% of the stuff I got prior to it. Now, I was only playing for a short while, but I cannot imagine being happy if I had been playing WoW from day dot and done all the raiding, only to have every single thing I had earned obsoleted almost instantly.

I decided that WoW was becoming boring again very quickly so came back to FFXI, but if I had stuck with WoW, everything I would have been working toward for the last couple of months would again be useless when they release the next expansion.. I can't believe people are happy with that o_O

People harp on about FFXI sidegrades, but I think they work extremely well. If only they could get over the hump of certain pieces being unreplaceable (ala Ebody), the system would be perfect for me. Situationally perfect gear with most old gear retaining usefulness, rather than gear that I use all the time, that gets totally replaced when new gear comes out. Inventory is the only limitation to the FFXI system, when they sort that out it'll be gravy, imo..

mmorpg's are supposed to be perpetual, you aren't supposed to be all Ridill'd, Adaberk'd, defending Ring'd out and that's that, where is your progression since it's entirely possible to have for example a Pld with Ageis, max merits, D. Ring?

The pre-BC raiders had their poop-fit and cope'd or left the game. FFXI players would do the same, there'd be bitching and moaning and then they'd be at K. Behemoth v2.0 for that D. Ring+1. My only hope is that when and if it happens it's not traditional kings system and the huge bottleneck clusterXXXX it is at the moment.

All sidegrades and situational pieces (i.e. Particular Element Staves) would have over well rounded out gear if they existed (i.e. Haub -> Adaberk) is -x to inv space. There should be a replacement to things even if the difference is a marginal and unrelated stat. Heck it'd self solve the 6 line macro problem ...

[Sagacious Sundi]

Better gear shouldn't be based on how new it is, it should be based on how hard it is to get.
However, new updates and expansions should add newer, harder challenges with better rewards.
I think some of the best old stuff should remain "situational" therefore you don't feel like it's been much of a waste; although I guess you can say the challenges that offer the best stuff should be very hard if you don't have the "best" stuff from past updates/expansions. Hence, "progression."

[BRP]

That Aegis, D.Ring, and so on PLD simply no longer gets more gear for this PLD, instead he starts building up his other job(s). That's something you can't do the same character in most other MMORPGs.

[Delekii]

When BC came out, I went and played WoW for a while, and within 2 hours of entering the expansion, I had replaced 90% of the stuff I got prior to it. Now, I was only playing for a short while, but I cannot imagine being happy if I had been playing WoW from day dot and done all the raiding, only to have every single thing I had earned obsoleted almost instantly.

I decided that WoW was becoming boring again very quickly so came back to FFXI, but if I had stuck with WoW, everything I would have been working toward for the last couple of months would again be useless when they release the next expansion.. I can't believe people are happy with that o_O

People harp on about FFXI sidegrades, but I think they work extremely well. If only they could get over the hump of certain pieces being unreplaceable (ala Ebody), the system would be perfect for me. Situationally perfect gear with most old gear retaining usefulness, rather than gear that I use all the time, that gets totally replaced when new gear comes out. Inventory is the only limitation to the FFXI system, when they sort that out it'll be gravy, imo..

mmorpg's are supposed to be perpetual, you aren't supposed to be all Ridill'd, Adaberk'd, defending Ring'd out and that's that, where is your progression since it's entirely possible to have for example a Pld with Ageis, max merits, D. Ring?

The pre-BC raiders had their poop-fit and cope'd or left the game. FFXI players would do the same, there'd be bitching and moaning and then they'd be at K. Behemoth v2.0 for that D. Ring+1. My only hope is that when and if it happens it's not traditional kings system and the huge bottleneck clusterXXXX it is at the moment.

All sidegrades and situational pieces (i.e. Particular Element Staves) would have over well rounded out gear if they existed (i.e. Haub -> Adaberk) is -x to inv space. There should be a replacement to things even if the difference is a marginal and unrelated stat. Heck it'd self solve the 6 line macro problem ...

perpetual doesn't necessarily mean perpetual growth which nullifies previous efforts entirely.

As the guy above me said, there are very, very few people in the game who have exhausted close to what the game has to offer.

[Septimus]

It would be terrible if Square had to spend a few thousand dollars a year to come up with gear that isn't replaced by gear that already exists. I mean, it's not like like they make at least $77,700,000 a year on monthly membership fees alone. ($83,700,000 if every person has one mule, $89,700,000 if everyone has two mules.) I mean, heaven forbid they use a small percentage of that money to make a segment of their player base happy.

Even counting the costs of servers, development, advertising, salaries, game masters, etc- it is really hard to plead poverty as an excuse as to why Square makes crappy gear.

You're right, they have more than enough resources to actually make better gear than the sky/king stuff. I'm pretty sure they're aware that the new gear they're introducing isn't as powerful as the old gear.

Why do you think that is?

Because they are short-sighted. They are making money on it right now, not considering that they are losing their player base and that dissatisfied people aren't going to pick up their next MMO.

[Norellicus]

Square has gone out of their way to prevent what happened with WOW and the first (and presumably the second) expansion. And what you end up getting, which is pretty obvious with every patch, is a lot of situational somewhat sidegrades. Every time I see FFXI patch notes and look at the gear that gets added, there's not a whole lot that's worthwhile to get. They do it to keep the older gear "special."

I don't consider it that big of a deal in Warcraft either. Every instance, every raid, people are looking to boost their gear, even if it's incremental. So when the increase occurs, instead of killing some boss for better gear, they're doing some quest. Enjoy the destination, but remember to enjoy the ride too.

Quoting this if only for the last line, but the whole thing rings true for me. People seemed to miss that point when BC came out, and they're already losing sight of it in anticipation of WotLC.

Also keep in mind that a naked Lv75 can still beat a naked Lv1 in Ballista, and the same goes for WoW world pvp; it's only natural that items that are designed for a higher level are going to end up being superior, regardless of whether they're Uncommon or Epic. The lootwhores will never be satisfied; if you give them upgrades, they get pissed off because you've just nullified their 'hard work', but if you maintain a certain level of superiority, they won't have anything new to strive for because it's technically worthless.

Personally, I'd rather have the stuff become obsolete. The "up the hill both ways, 10 miles in the snow" type argument that the 'veterans' put forth carries no water with me. I'm all for making the new player's job easier, since this is still just a game.

[BRP]

It would be terrible if Square had to spend a few thousand dollars a year to come up with gear that isn't replaced by gear that already exists. I mean, it's not like like they make at least $77,700,000 a year on monthly membership fees alone. ($83,700,000 if every person has one mule, $89,700,000 if everyone has two mules.) I mean, heaven forbid they use a small percentage of that money to make a segment of their player base happy.

Even counting the costs of servers, development, advertising, salaries, game masters, etc- it is really hard to plead poverty as an excuse as to why Square makes crappy gear.

You're right, they have more than enough resources to actually make better gear than the sky/king stuff. I'm pretty sure they're aware that the new gear they're introducing isn't as powerful as the old gear.

Why do you think that is?

Because they are short-sighted. They are making money on it right now, not considering that they are losing their player base and that dissatisfied people aren't going to pick up their next MMO.

And yet tons and tons of people stay after so many new MMOs come out. Just maybe Aery was the problem, not the gear, and now they release content that is better than Aery, people aren't as dissatisfied and just like to bitch for bitching sake. And maybe people who actually hardcore camp anything is truly a meager 5% of the game's population. And that 5% still pays them. I don't see them losing any money.

[Heroic]

Well, as a ex-player of both FFXI and WoW... I like WoW's system on the way you equip gear. You equip it = out of your bag. I'm sure if FFXI did that it would help this inventory problem, -15 slots ftw? :D

[Amele]

Well, as a ex-player of both FFXI and WoW... I like WoW's system on the way you equip gear. You equip it = out of your bag. I'm sure if FFXI did that it would help this inventory problem, -15 slots ftw? :D

until something stripped your gear and the game had to decide where to put it.

[Jotaru]

Puppetmaster-esque storage! Somehow. Who knows.

But, as said in another post, this hat is on my head, so why's it in my backpack! SE makes more than enough money to pay one guy to figure out how to get around the gear stripga issue if equipped items weren't in inventory.

[Bakthi]

People harp on about FFXI sidegrades, but I think they work extremely well. If only they could get over the hump of certain pieces being unreplaceable (ala Ebody), the system would be perfect for me. Situationally perfect gear with most old gear retaining usefulness, rather than gear that I use all the time, that gets totally replaced when new gear comes out. Inventory is the only limitation to the FFXI system, when they sort that out it'll be gravy, imo..

I mostly agree with this, but the issue is also that there are a limited number of useful stats (for a given job) to boost, and a limited number of "situations" into which your situational sidegrade gear must fit. Eventually, you start running out of niches to fill for a given job without obsoleting something.

This is partially alleviated by the fact that some new gear, while not superior to the old, is easier/possible to obtain for some players. It's also partially alleviated by the multiple jobs system, which I love. But some people are in a spot where their multiple 75s have a lot of overlapping gear, and anything they haven't obtained yet is largely out of reach for them. Either they have to level a new job, or something (that they own) has to be obsoleted by any future expansion.

As Septimus mentioned, though, obsoleting gear isn't necessarily terrible, unless you got the just-obsoleted gear like a week before the expansion release date, and the new piece is easy to get. If SE obsoleted BRD AF+1 hands tomorrow, I'll still have had many months of use out of them, and I might not have the new piece for quite some time (or ever, depending on how hard it was to get...I bet Dalmatica owners aren't exactly enraged about Marduk Jubbah at the moment, even if they never plan to level RDM.)

[Delekii]

I agree - don't get me wrong, obsoleting gear is not terrible. There is a big difference between releasing a Walahra Turban and killing the Panther Mask market, to releasing an expansion and nullifying almost every piece of gear obtained by every player up to that point.

[Midnightjade]

I haven't tried WoW, but I like the way FFXI has been doing things recently, which is why I still play. SE has moved away from timesink king mobs and large-number raids in noninstanced areas. Now we have instanced zones designed for small to medium size groups, and that require some thought if you want to win (Salvage, Limbus, Nyzul Isle, Assault). The game has been stripped down to its bare essentials, allowing the core gameplay to shine.

They've learned a lot, although you could argue that they learned some of it from Blizzard.