Virtue stone general question.

[Kimitsu]

Probably a dumb question. But does a virtue stone get used if you miss all hits upon a proc?

[Jeryhn]

If the weapon procs a double attack, it'll consume a virtue stone. This has no bearing on whether or not the attack actually hits its target.

[Kimitsu]

Thank you for the clarification .

[Max™]

Related question: I've long understood that you cannot proc Virtue weapons during a WS.

I have someone, they don't have Brutal yet, but do have Faith Bagnakhs, and as soon as I get my account activated on their LS boards, I will get and post pictures he claims provide proof of a Faith proc during Dragon Kick, and Stones being Consumed.

Anyone else tested on this?

[Kiarax]

Related question: I've long understood that you cannot proc Virtue weapons during a WS.

I have someone, they don't have Brutal yet, but do have Faith Bagnakhs, and as soon as I get my account activated on their LS boards, I will get and post pictures he claims provide proof of a Faith proc during Dragon Kick, and Stones being Consumed.

Anyone else tested on this?

Jailer weapons can proc on WS.

[Max™]

Related question: I've long understood that you cannot proc Virtue weapons during a WS.

I have someone, they don't have Brutal yet, but do have Faith Bagnakhs, and as soon as I get my account activated on their LS boards, I will get and post pictures he claims provide proof of a Faith proc during Dragon Kick, and Stones being Consumed.

Anyone else tested on this?

Jailer weapons can proc on WS.

That doesn't help much, I've heard they can't, I've yet to see it myself (my Sea LS time wound up being Limbus mainly, and some lame ass Ix'DRK camps which didn't help anyone in the shell want to do more Jailer stuff) but I have heard many times that they don't proc on WS.

Guess a Sam with Love Halberd and one stone, meditate, WS a level 1 mob, unequip stone, build TP, equip stone, WS mob, etc, etc.

[Talis]

Jailer weapons can proc on WS.

I disagree.

Well since there seems to still be some question as to Jailor weapons ability to proc during weapon skills I decided to do some testing last night and figure out a difinitive answer.

Test conditions:

Mainhand : Justice sword
Offhand : Hrotti

Other notable gear : Hecatomb hands/body/feet

I basically stacked as much slow gear as I possibly could and offhanded a long delay weapon in an attempt to slow down my attack rounds, and be able to prevent an attack round from occurring immediately after a WS. I meled in this gear full time to prevent any lag issued when switching over before WS, or shorter/longer attack rounds near WS.

I also constructed the following macro :

\equip Ammo "Virtue Stone"
\wait 1
\WS "Vorpal Blade" <t>
\wait 5
\equip Ammo

This will swap in the virtue stones, ws, then swap them back out again. Provided you hit this macro immediately after an attack round theres still about 2 seconds between when the virtue stones are un-equiped and the next attack round occurrs.

I then preformed 30 weapon skills on Mobs which I knew woudn't be killed by a single WS (Mushrooms in the crawlers nest), and checked the number of stones remaining after each weapon skill. Examining the log showed that no attack rounds occurred between the time the stones were equiped and un-equiped in any case (eg I didn't discard any weapon skills for this reason, the 30 vorpal blades happened sequentially). In not a single case was a stone expended, and I beleive with a sample size of 30 ws, and expected 50% proc rate its not hard to conclude that justice weapons simply don't proc during weapon skills.

If anyone can sugest a flaw in this experiment I'm more then happy to hear it and attempt to re-do the tests in such a way as to try and eliminate any questions. Barring that, I'll personally be switching to joy/justice rather then justice/joy just for the marginally greater base damage.

If anyone can find a flaw in this experiment please let me know and I'll find a way to repeat it without that error.

[Max™]

The flaw in the experiment is that sometimes its hard to tell exactly when the weapon kicks in, and you can start an attack round during a WS animation.

Best thing I can think of is to TP on low level mobs, then do the WS test, ideally on something like a sheep in la theine, where it won't die in one hit, but a full WS with multhits should do it.

BUT, don't put wait 5, the actual calculation for the WS seems to be basically instant, even if the animation takes longer, hence why you see full animations when you kill a mob with the first hit.

Put this

/equip ammo "Virtue Stone"
/ws "Vorpal Blade" <t>
/wait 1
/equip ammo

That should make sure no attack rounds get in before the WS goes off/etc.

[Ferien]

Honestly, that's kind of irrelevant considering there were 0 stones consumed during WS. Regardless of whether or not an attack round proc'd in between, if there are no stones consumed at all, the weapon did not proc at any point during the test.

[Max™]

Honestly, that's kind of irrelevant considering there were 0 stones consumed during WS. Regardless of whether or not an attack round proc'd in between, if there are no stones consumed at all, the weapon did not proc at any point during the test.

Just saying people will bitch "well, you left too long a delay, gotta run it again" so that could prevent any of that.

It does look like what you have shown is true though, and they don't proc.

[Spekkio]

you could test it in theory using mistral axe i'd think (DA can proc on that, yes?) by stepping back, counting virtue stones from outside melee range, then WSing. out of maybe 10 tests, you should see a few virtue stones consumed when you're otherwise not meleeing. unfortunately, only a bst could equip the axe and do mistral, so have fun finding one to test it out. ^^

[orinthia]

Just get on pld/thf, unequip brutal, equip justice sword and virtue stones (be sure to have tons, keep them on 100% of the time or only equip them after you're at 90%tp), and only use sata+flat blade onto someone else against an easy mob that doesn't have aoe (like a lesser colibri or something). There, a single hit ws that is 100% single hit UNLESS the virtue weapon procs, to which you'll be able to see the additional 1tp after ws.

Or pld/rdm and do the same thing against like a robber crab or something and just keep track of tp after flat blade. Should be able to find if it procs or not since you'll get extra tp from it (and additional dmg).

[Talis]

Honestly, that's kind of irrelevant considering there were 0 stones consumed during WS. Regardless of whether or not an attack round proc'd in between, if there are no stones consumed at all, the weapon did not proc at any point during the test.

Just saying people will bitch "well, you left too long a delay, gotta run it again" so that could prevent any of that.

It does look like what you have shown is true though, and they don't proc.

No, the point of stacking all of the slow gear was to prevent an attack round occurring immediately after a weapon skill. And as previously mentioned, the longer delay was to allow time for the weapon skill animation to complete, and damage to show in the log (removing any doubt that the virtue stones were equiped whenever DA is calculated).

At no point was a stone consumed, after 30 WS I had exactly the same number of stones as when I began the experiment, as previously mentioned even if an attack round proc'd immediately after the WS, the worst that would happen is that a stone would be consumed and there would continue to be doubt.

[Delekii]

The fact that no stone was consumed in 30 weaponskills is proof enough really that they cant proc during a WS.. even if there were incidental melee rounds, we know that no double attacks procced there either because no stones are consumed, so it makes no difference to the test...

The chance of 30 weaponskills with a 50% chance of double attack NOT double attacking is incredibly small..